Donald Trump One of the Losingest Self-Described 'Winners' You'll Ever See

[Formerly Once-Ler]

http://www.sunshinestatenews.com/story/donald-trump-one-losingest-self-described-winners-youll-ever-see

In Donald Trump's wave-making interview Wednesday with The Washington Post, the celebrity presidential candidate let it all hang out -- his attitudes toward everything from Muslims to Ben Carson to the GOP debate ratings.

WaPo's Chris Cilliza described it this way: "If an alien came to earth today and asked you to explain Donald Trump to him/her/it, you could simply provide the transcript of this interview and be done with it.  It's that good/bad/amazing/terrible."

In fact, what Trump said to Cilliza to promote himself as a big-gigantic-humongous winner left one GOP consultant seething.

First, here's what Trump said: "I’ve been winning all of my life ... My whole life is about winning. I always win ... My whole life is about winning. I don’t lose often. I almost never lose.”

Pipe down, blowhard, responded Liz Mair in a more civil manner in her Wednesday email than I've just characterized: "This is funny," she said, "because, contrary to popular belief, Trump has failed and lost at plenty in his life."

Mair, former Republican National Committee operative, is leading a "guerrilla" offensive against Trump called Trump Card LLC. Here are the counterpoints she delivered in her email to the Donald's I'm-a-big-winner boasts:

Liz Mair

No. 1: Record corporate bankruptcies (four, to be precise)

“No major U.S. company has filed for Chapter 11 more than Trump's casino empire in the last 30 years.” (Source: CNN Money)

No. 2: Huge personal losses for Trump, thanks to bankruptcies.

“Trump's first bankruptcy filing was probably the most personally painful for him. To come up with the funds he needed, he sold a 282-foot yacht, as well as the Trump Shuttle, the airline he operated at the time that flew between Washington, D.C., New York and Boston, according to media reports at the time. He had to give up half of his ownership stake in the Trump Taj Mahal…” (Source: CNN Money)
“[In his second bankruptcy, Trump] gave up half his interest in the New York Plaza to Citibank…” (Source: CNN Money)
“[In his third bankruptcy, Trump] turned over majority control of the company to his bondholders…” (Source: CNN Money)
“Trump also pumped $72 million of his personal fortune to help keep the restructuring afloat.” (Source: WaPo)

No. 3: Tanking the share price of his company.

“In 2009, Trump Entertainment Resorts, formed in the aftermath of the Trump empire’s bankruptcies, itself declared bankruptcy after missing a $53 million bond interest payment. The company, which ran the Trump Plaza and Trump Taj Mahal, was forced into court, scattering investors and sending its $4 share price plunging to about 25 cents.” (Source:  WaPo)

No. 4: Failure in the vodka business.

“On 'Larry King Live,' he said he got into the vodka business to outdo his friends at Grey Goose. Six years later, Grey Goose is still on top shelves throughout the country. As for Trump vodka? Yeah, we'd never heard of it either. The New York City blog Gothamist reports the vodka has stopped production ‘because the company failed to meet the threshold requirements.’ Two weeks ago, Trump's company filed an injunction to prevent an Israeli company from selling Trump vodka without his consent or authorization. Meaning the Donald stopped the only people in world who wanted to drink his vodka from doing so.” (Source: TIME)

No. 5: Failure in the airline business.

“Trump pushed to give the airline the Trump touch, making the previously no-muss, no-fuss shuttle service into a luxury experience. To this end, he added maple-wood veneer to the floors, chrome seat-belt latches and gold-colored bathroom fixtures. But his gamble was a bust. A lack of increased interest from customers (who favored the airline for its convenience not its fancy new look) combined with high pre–Gulf War fuel prices meant the shuttle never turned a profit. The high debt forced Trump to default on his loans, and ownership of the company was turned over to creditors.” (Source: TIME)

No. 6: Attempting to get in on the mortgage business as the property sector was imploding, kicking off the great meltdown of 2008.

“In April 2006, Trump announced that, after years in the real estate business, he was launching a mortgage company. He held a glitzy press conference at which his son Donald Jr. predicted that Trump Mortgage would soon be the nation's No. 1 home-loan lender. Trump told CNBC, ‘Who knows more about financing than me?’ Apparently, plenty. Within a year and a half, Trump Mortgage had closed shop. The would-be lending powerhouse was done in by timing (the housing market cratered in 2007) and ironically enough, given Trump's Apprentice TV show, poor hiring. The executive Trump selected to run his loan company, E.J. Ridings, claimed to have been a top executive at a prestigious investment bank. In reality, Ridings' highest role on Wall Street was as a registered broker, a position he held for a mere six days.” (Source: TIME)

No. 7: Doing a “great” job of “negotiating” sky-high interest rates on junk bonds financing his property developments.

“He also said that the interest rate on debt would be reduced to 8% from 15%...” (Source: The Street)
“The first Trump-tied bankruptcy, in 1991, was of Trump’s biggest Atlantic City casino, the Trump Taj Mahal, whose $1 billion construction was financed by junk bonds at a staggeringly high interest rate of 14 percent.” (Source: WaPo)

No. 8: Missing a $53 million bond interest payment.

“In 2009, Trump Entertainment Resorts, formed in the aftermath of the Trump empire’s bankruptcies, itself declared bankruptcy after missing a $53 million bond interest payment.” (Source:  WaPo)

No. 9: Knowingly overpaying for the Plaza property.

“Trump seems to have had an inkling from the get-go that the Plaza deal may not have been the best he ever made. ‘I haven't purchased a building, I have purchased a masterpiece -- the Mona Lisa,’ he wrote in a 1988 essay in New York magazine. ‘For the first time in my life, I have knowingly made a deal which was not economic -- for I can never justify the price I paid, no matter how successful The Plaza becomes.’” (Source: The Street)

No. 10: Winding up poorer than a beggar.

“Around that time, Trump later told The Washington Post, he passed a beggar in New York and told his now ex-wife, model Marla Maples, ‘You see that man? Right now he’s worth $900 million more than me.’” (Source: WaPo)

When asked who is backing her offensive against Trump, Mair wouldn't say. "I’m the spokesperson," she told Sunshine State News.

The Wall Street Journal claims she is backed by high-level and high-profile secret donors to “defeat and destroy” the celebrity businessman’s candidacy.

A widely circulated memo from Trump Card LLC said, “In the absence of our efforts, Trump is exceedingly unlikely to implode or be forced out of the race,” according to the Trump Card memo. “The stark reality is that unless something dramatic and unconventional is done, Trump will be the Republican nominee and Hillary Clinton will become president.”

WSJ says media consultant Rick Wilson is lending a hand with ads. He told the newspaper in November he isn’t involved in fundraising but predicted a number of Republican donors will start bankrolling an anti-Trump effort.

“People are finally taking the threat that Trump will destroy the Republican Party and lose the general election to Hillary Clinton seriously,” said Wilson, member of a super PAC team backing Sen. Marco Rubio.

I've been worried about Trump not going away since August, when I wrote about it.

What I like about Mair's list of Trump "losings," frankly, is her strategy. It's good to see Republicans coming together to expose this unlikely candidate, not only for his carnival rhetoric, but for the kind of plundering example he set for American business.

Trump is no carnival barker...He's a Bourbon Street strip club hype man.  And he can do this for America too.

[truth_seeker]

With or without Trump, the divide in the center-right will cost the Presidency and Senate majority this time around.

Feel free to hold me to that next November.  Everybody in the center-right will be pointing fingers, but they will ALL have done it to themselves.

I'm even going to call the race for President at 52% - 46%. 

[Formerly Once-Ler]

With or without Trump, the divide in the center-right will cost the Presidency and Senate majority this time around.

Feel free to hold me to that next November.  Everybody in the center-right will be pointing fingers, but they will ALL have done it to themselves.

I'm even going to call the race for President at 52% - 46%.

I understand exactly where you are coming from ts.  Your posts have gotten more doomy-gloomy in the last 6 months, and that is sad.  I recall when you sounded much more optimistic about our future. 

You maybe right that the Senate is in jeopardy, and the White House looks bleak from our perspective, but America has survived worse than Obama, and it will survive the Trump candidacy.

The GOP owns the state legislatures.  We own the Governor's mansions  We own the US House.  That is not likely to change.  Let us count our blessings too. 

My wife thinks people are evil, self centered, and stupid.  I have always been more forgiving of human frailty as a fact of life, and a believer in the inherent goodness of mankind.  Perhaps that is naive, but I see the American voters as constantly maturing children.  Often they must make the wrong choice to see the right path.  As a nation we have made so many bad choices can there be anything left but the right ones now?

I am not filled with despair, if the American people choose socialism, as long as they can later fix their mistake...as they did when they rejected AFDC...an extremely counter productive safety net.

If the voters choose fear, xenophobia, and isolationism, there will be much suffering, but eventually we will recognize our mistake.  Tears for the dead and the injured...but isn't that the tapestry of history?

You and I can say "It didn't have to be this way!"  but can we be sure that it did not?

I wish you had a deity you could pray to...A higher power to help you accept that this is all planned.  I know you are too smart to believe in an invisible spirit who guides us, but He gives me great comfort in these uncertain times. 

and I hope my protestation of faith do not undermine my message, wisdom, or insight to you.

Regardless of my illogical belief in a guiding power, I hope you will appreciate that I think you are one of BR's brightest "heathen" contributors.  You often post what I believe...only more logically, more convincingly, and more grammatically correct.

I'm glad to be sharing these weird times with you my friend.

[famousdayandyear]

http://www.sunshinestatenews.com/story/donald-trump-one-losingest-self-described-winners-youll-ever-see
Trump is no carnival barker...He's a Bourbon Street strip club hype man.  And he can do this for America too.

So, how much does the Liz Mair superpac pay you to post this crap?
What a despicable way to make a living.

Apology to truth-seeker.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

So, how much does the Liz Mair superpac pay you to post this crap?
What a despicable way to make a living.

Apology to truth-seeker.

Believe it or not I do it for free, and the joy I get from your replies.

People fail you.  They are human.  They are weak.
When you reach out to them, they take the easy path of rejection to guard their superiority, self worth, and ego.

I could respond with equal spite.  Anger that the world doesn't see what I see.  That others (lessors) are idiot a$$holes.
I could be justified in that opinion and I could retaliate.  It would be easy to get a rise out of you famous, as we all know that the mere mention of alcohol will make you lose your balance.

I won't take the easy shot.  I will simple say your reply is unashamedly stupid. 

You are obliviously lucky I take the time to post to this often unwelcoming forum, and you deserve an echo chamber that will pat you on the head for your devotion to a dear leader Trump.  If you ever change your mind about President Trump once he gains office, you will be the first against the wall, and you will deserve it.

Now that my righteous anger has been satiated, I would remind you famous that I have defended you when I have thought Sinkspur has stepped over the line.

That being said I will offer you the same deal I offered Carling.  If you think I am not 100% invested in America and my children's future...

If you really think I am a paid plant by the GOPe, tell me to go...

And I will leave you in peace to dream of the terrific, and classy world Trump will create.

Carling already regrets not being the hero for BR and sending me packing, here is your chance.

...and you'll be doing me a favor as well.

I have a full time job.  I am working 65-70 hours a week, which leaves very little time for political arguments.  My young children will thank you as well.

If you are unwilling to call me out as your sworn enemy, and a traitorous subversive betrayer to America, and my children's future, then let us stop playing this silly game and work together to stop Hitlery.

[jmyrlefuller]

With or without Trump, the divide in the center-right will cost the Presidency and Senate majority this time around.

Feel free to hold me to that next November.  Everybody in the center-right will be pointing fingers, but they will ALL have done it to themselves.

I'm even going to call the race for President at 52% - 46%.

It does not take a "divide in the center-right" to get that result. Mere demographic trends will ensure Democratic majorities for the Presidential votes for decades to come, if the newly minted voters do not have a collective major epiphany soon.

[Right_in_Virginia]

With or without Trump, the divide in the center-right will cost the Presidency and Senate majority this time around.

Why?

[truth_seeker]

I wish you had a deity you could pray to...A higher power to help you accept that this is all planned. 

I have faith of my own understanding, e.g. a higher power, prime mover. And I have acceptance.

Not so sure about the "all planned" idea, though.

[sinkspur]

Believe it or not I do it for free, and the joy I get from your replies.

People fail you.  They are human.  They are weak.
When you reach out to them, they take the easy path of rejection to guard their superiority, self worth, and ego.

I could respond with equal spite.  Anger that the world doesn't see what I see.  That others (lessors) are idiot a$$holes.
I could be justified in that opinion and I could retaliate.  It would be easy to get a rise out of you famous, as we all know that the mere mention of alcohol will make you lose your balance.

I won't take the easy shot.  I will simple say your reply is unashamedly stupid. 

You are obliviously lucky I take the time to post to this often unwelcoming forum, and you deserve an echo chamber that will pat you on the head for your devotion to a dear leader Trump.  If you ever change your mind about President Trump once he gains office, you will be the first against the wall, and you will deserve it.

Now that my righteous anger has been satiated, I would remind you famous that I have defended you when I have thought Sinkspur has stepped over the line.

That being said I will offer you the same deal I offered Carling.  If you think I am not 100% invested in America and my children's future...

If you really think I am a paid plant by the GOPe, tell me to go...

And I will leave you in peace to dream of the terrific, and classy world Trump will create.

Carling already regrets not being the hero for BR and sending me packing, here is your chance.

...and you'll be doing me a favor as well.

I have a full time job.  I am working 65-70 hours a week, which leaves very little time for political arguments.  My young children will thank you as well.

If you are unwilling to call me out as your sworn enemy, and a traitorous subversive betrayer to America, and my children's future, then let us stop playing this silly game and work together to stop Hitlery.

Friend,I can't tell you how much I appreciate your posts. You are clear, lucid, rapier-witted, and wield the sword of irony and sarcasm with consummate skill.

I'm doing my best to detach emotionally from the discussions here and I think I have.  No more profanity, no more direct attacks on posters.  Rather, third-person generic criticisms seem to get past the metal detectors here, so that's the direction I'm taking.

Plus, it's more fun sometimes to just step aside and say nothing.  I'm on so many ignore lists, I get to pretty much post unencumbered.

Have you noticed how many guests show up here at night?  Last night, 473 were online at one time. That was TWELVE TIMES the number of actual members posting.  They're not here to watch the Trumpies  pat each other on the butt, or to read how much of a mess the Secret Service is, or to listen to the tunes at Mory's Table.
 
Not a bad audience, that.

[Lando Lincoln]

O-L - I am not worthy...

[Lando Lincoln]

Friend,I can't tell you how much I appreciate your posts. You are clear, lucid, rapier-witted, and wield the sword of irony and sarcasm with consummate skill.

I'm doing my best to detach emotionally from the discussions here and I think I have.  No more profanity, no more direct attacks on posters.  Rather, third-person generic criticisms seem to get past the metal detectors here, so that's the direction I'm taking.

Plus, it's more fun sometimes to just step aside and say nothing.  I'm on so many ignore lists, I get to pretty much post unencumbered.

Have you noticed how many guests show up here at night?  Last night, 473 were online at one time. That was TWELVE TIMES the number of actual members posting.  They're not here to watch the Trumpies  pat each other on the butt, or to read how much of a mess the Secret Service is, or to listen to the tunes at Mory's Table.
 
Not a bad audience, that.

I like this version of sinkspur. BTW... Did I see something about steaks at your place?

[sinkspur]

I like this version of sinkspur. BTW... Did I see something about steaks at your place?

Sure.  Let me know you're coming.

[truth_seeker]

It does not take a "divide in the center-right" to get that result. Mere demographic trends will ensure Democratic majorities for the Presidential votes for decades to come, if the newly minted voters do not have a collective major epiphany soon.

The alternative is for the center-right to adapt and adjust, to bring a significant fraction of the demographic increments to their side. Our side.

Following 2012 the GOP did an autopsy, and concluded more needed to be done to get Hispanic voters.

Frankly I was optimistic, since I have lived in proximity to this growing demographic all of my life. And candidates with names like "Cruz" and "Rubio" further heartened me.

You know the saying "go to war with the army you have?"

I say you "go to the election, with the electorate you have." If that means adjusting and adapting, you adjust and adapt.

And with the slobbering over the messiah Trump, don't anybody scold me over "principles."

The principle is "win, baby, win." Al Davis, Oakland Raiders.

[mystery-ak]

Once-Ler...I am proud to have you at TBR....

[mystery-ak]

Friend,I can't tell you how much I appreciate your posts. You are clear, lucid, rapier-witted, and wield the sword of irony and sarcasm with consummate skill.

I'm doing my best to detach emotionally from the discussions here and I think I have.  No more profanity, no more direct attacks on posters.  Rather, third-person generic criticisms seem to get past the metal detectors here, so that's the direction I'm taking.

Plus, it's more fun sometimes to just step aside and say nothing.  I'm on so many ignore lists, I get to pretty much post unencumbered.

Have you noticed how many guests show up here at night?  Last night, 473 were online at one time. That was TWELVE TIMES the number of actual members posting.  They're not here to watch the Trumpies  pat each other on the butt, or to read how much of a mess the Secret Service is, or to listen to the tunes at Mory's Table.
 
Not a bad audience, that.

I like this new sink...

[Carling]

They're not here to watch the Trumpies  pat each other on the butt.

Complete uncalled for, and Myst approving of it is disappointing.

Are you ever going to answer why you're against tax credits for privately-funded new construction projects, or are we still calling people names?

Also, why does Once-ler keep posting anti-Trump Op-Eds in the Politics forum?

[mystery-ak]

Complete uncalled for, and Myst approving of it is disappointing.

Are you ever going to answer why you're against tax credits for privately-funded new construction projects, or are we still calling people names?

Also, why does Once-ler keep posting anti-Trump Op-Eds in the Politics forum?

Actually sink is wrong why so many guests were here last night..Tracy and I were promoting a few threads on FB and twitter all evening...

[sinkspur]

Actually sink is wrong why so many guests were here last night..Tracy and I were promoting a few threads on FB and twitter all evening...

Who cares why they're here, they're here. And, if they're reading the posts, we should all be happy.

276 guests here now, 17 members posting.

[Carling]

Who cares why they're here, they're here. And, if they're reading the posts, we should all be happy.

276 guests here now, 17 members posting.

The slam at "Trumpies" was a juvenile sentence and not at all indicative of any change in your posting style.  If you "don't care" why they're here,  why did you rule out three separate possibilities with literally zero evidence to support your claims, along with insulting Trump supporters?

Your love letter to Once-Ler was touching, though.   

[sinkspur]

The slam at "Trumpies" was a juvenile sentence and not at all indicative of any change in your posting style.  If you "don't care" why they're here,  why did you rule out three separate possibilities with literally zero evidence to support your claims, along with insulting Trump supporters?

Your love letter to Once-Ler was touching, though.   

Get that grump out of your heart and put a smile on your face, Carling.

It's a new day.  Get with the program, buddy.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Once-Ler...I am proud to have you at TBR....

Thank you Myst.  I'm proud to call this my home.  You have created a gathering place for some of the finest intellects and critical thinkers on line.  Sharing their ideas, observations, and humor.  The variety of opinions offered here spans from the center right to the outer limits of conservatism.  It is a testament to your strength and security in your own beliefs that you allow voices you disagree with, to make their arguments in your forum.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Friend,I can't tell you how much I appreciate your posts. You are clear, lucid, rapier-witted, and wield the sword of irony and sarcasm with consummate skill.

I'm doing my best to detach emotionally from the discussions here and I think I have.  No more profanity, no more direct attacks on posters.  Rather, third-person generic criticisms seem to get past the metal detectors here, so that's the direction I'm taking.

It is very hard not to personalize politics, because we have invested years of our time and emotions in it.  Truthfully, I enjoyed and laughed heartily, at most of your acerbic repartee, but I am rarely on the receiving end, and there have been times I have cringed at the blunt force of your responses.  If there is one thing I've learned from Mr. Trump's flailing at Fox News, it is you can't browbeat someone into accepting your position.   

So I applaud your proclamation that you are trying a new tact to get your message heard.  The strength of your arguments, for me, has always been the meat of you logical mind.  The personal attacks just seemed like something that I had to accept as a character trait.  It will be hard not to fall back into old habits.  Others will test you with insults.  You will feel justified in responding in kind.  You need not jump to the call to ever save face with me.  I have followed your posts since TOS and know the mettle you are made of.

I know Carling is already uncomfortable with our mutual admiration, but you have honored me with high praise, and I must reciprocate.   I often speak with my wife and children about my online conversations.  My children know about you, Oceander, and Luis Gonzalez as the Political Trinity who have helped me shape my current political philosophy.  When I have grandchildren I will sing them ballads of the "Golden Age of TBR," when we were all together.

I miss Luis.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Also, why does Once-ler keep posting anti-Trump Op-Eds in the Politics forum?

News is supposed the 5 W's but often the "why" is left to analysis after to story breaks.  For me this is the meat of politics, but I understand your point.  I will endeavor to place opinion pieces in Op-Ed.  Thank you for pointing this out.

[Carling]

Carling already regrets not being the hero for BR and sending me packing, here is your chance.

I literally haven't thought at all of sending you packing.  It's the last thing I would want.  Where would you get that idea?  I haven't reported you to the mods once, and myst and the other mods can vouch for me.  Why are you libeling my Carling persona?  I like that you're here. I disagree with some of your posts, and agree with others, but this "Trumpies" vs. "TDS" thing is stupid IMO, yet it's dominating the board by posters on your side of that debate.  I'm a Cruz fan, and I see Trump as a trial balloon for Cruz to refine his policies with as the media and so-called Republicans bash Trump for doing what Trump does, which is pushing things to the extreme while Cruz can come in and make it more acceptable, yet with the same principles. 

Seems obvious to me what is going on with those two.   

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Why are you libeling my Carling persona?  I like that you're here. I disagree with some of your posts, and agree with others, but this "Trumpies" vs. "TDS" thing is stupid IMO, yet it's dominating the board by posters on your side of that debate.  I'm a Cruz fan, and I see Trump as a trial balloon for Cruz to refine his policies with as the media and so-called Republicans bash Trump for doing what Trump does, which is pushing things to the extreme while Cruz can come in and make it more acceptable, yet with the same principles. 

Seems obvious to me what is going on with those two.   

I never meant to libel your Carling persona...I wanted to stop just short of defaming you. ^-^
I like that you are here too Carling.  I think you are incredibly bright, and insightful, and a forceful debater.  I wish we could move beyond Trump, and agree to support Senator Cruz.  I have had my reservations about Cruz, but I believe he is a brilliant legal scholar and man of integrity.  The fact that most of his positions have not shifted 180 degrees over the last 1-2 years is a huge plus.

I'm not sure how Trump is a trial balloon for Cruz, but OK...cool, if that is the future.  I will wholeheartedly agree that Trump has made Senator Cruz palatable to squishy RINOs like me.

I come from a divorced family.  My father told me it only take one person to make a relationship work, it takes 2 to really screw it up.  Are you sure that only posters on my side of the debate are pushing the "Trumpies" vs. "TDS"?  I agree it is stupid, but I guarantee we will disagree why it is stupid.

Here is to hoping Sen Cruz can bring the GOP together...

Good Lord! 
I can't believe I posted that.