Author Topic: No, You Didn't Really Watch Footage of New Jersey Muslims Celebrating  (Read 720 times)

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Offline sinkspur

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http://link.nationalreview.com/view/54ecd6443b35d0b02a8ba7263cuv2.2zlp/8ac98a67

No, You Didn’t Really Watch Footage of New Jersey Muslims Celebrating

Jim Geraghty
December 1, 2015

Here we go again.

Fox & Friends host Steve Doocy defended Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump’s claim that thousands of New Jersey Muslims celebrated on 9/11, saying that he knew people who saw it in person and that he saw it on television.

“I actually remember things like that,” Doocy insisted. “I remember, because I live one town away from one of the towns where, according to my neighbors, they saw it with their own two eyes, there were people celebrating.”

“I also remember there was video on television,” he said. “I don’t remember if it was from that town or from New Jersey. Nonetheless, Donald Trump says there are a lot of people out there who have verified the idea of his story.”

No matter how strongly Trump or Doocy insist they remember watching it -- perhaps you insist you remember watching it on television as well! -- we have good reason to be skeptical.

When people are describing memories from many years ago, and cannot provide supporting evidence or corroborating details, be wary. Think of former representative Curt Weldon’s impassioned, shocking claims about the Able Danger program and 9/11.

On October 19, 2005, Representative Curt Weldon, Pennsylvania Republican, announced on the floor of the House:

. . . that secret program called Able Danger actually identified the Brooklyn cell of al Qaeda in January and February of 2000, over one year before 9/11 every happened. In addition, I learned that not only did we identify the Brooklyn cell of al Qaeda, but we identified Mohamed Atta as one of the members of that Brooklyn cell along with three other terrorists who were the leadership of the 9/11 attack.

Shortly thereafter, Weldon insisted he had seen Mohammed Atta’s face and name on a chart from the intelligence group, identifying him as part of a Brooklyn cell.

In a particularly dramatic scene in Weldon’s book, Countdown to Terror, the Pennsylvania Republican described personally handing to then-Deputy National Security Adviser Steve Hadley, just after Sept. 11, an Able Danger chart produced in 1999 identifying Atta. But Weldon told TIME he’s no longer certain Atta’s name was on that original document. The congressman says he handed Hadley his only copy. Still, last week he referred reporters to a recently reconstructed version of the chart in his office where, among dozens of names and photos of terrorists from around the world, there was a color mug shot of Mohammad Atta, circled in black marker.

No one could ever produce the original chart Weldon claimed he saw; the Pentagon’s Inspector General concluded Able Danger did not identify Atta or any other hijacker before the September 11 attacks and there was no evidence of the chart Weldon described ever existed.

Apparently after 9/11, the FBI received thousands of calls from people reporting seeing Atta in places they knew he could not have been; people “remembered” seeing him everywhere. Memories play tricks on people. They remember things that didn’t happen -- things like dodging sniper fire in Bosnia. Or any of Brian Williams’s tales. Or Neil deGrasse Tyson’s completely erroneous description of a George W. Bush speech.

President George W. Bush once described a memory that all of us know couldn’t have happened the way he described:

I was sitting outside the classroom, waiting to go in, and I saw an airplane hit the tower of a TV -- the TV was obviously on, and I used to fly myself and I said, “that’s one terrible pilot” and said it must have been a horrible accident.’

Except we all saw President Bush being informed about the attacks by Andrew Card in the classroom. (Cue the Truther conspiracy theories.) The only footage of the plane hitting the first tower was by those French documentarians, and was shown to the public months later.

No, it is not hard to get people to remember things that didn’t happen, even about 9/11:

In one, for example, the investigators spoke with the subjects about the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks and mentioned in passing the footage that had been captured of United Flight 93 crashing in Pennsylvania -- footage, of course, that does not exist. In both groups -- HSAM subjects and those with normal memories -- about 1 in 5 people “remembered” seeing this footage when asked about it later.

“It just seemed like something was falling out of the sky,” said one of the HSAM participants. “I was just, you know, kind of stunned by watching it, you know, go down.”

A lot of things we “remember” didn’t actually happen. In the original television series Dragnet, Joe Friday never actually said, “Just the facts, ma’am”; his wording was, “All we want are the facts, ma’am,” and, “All we know are the facts, ma’am.” Sherlock Holmes never said 'Elementary, my dear Watson” in any of the Arthur Conan Doyle stories. Humphrey Bogart never actually says, “Play it again, Sam” in Casablanca.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline aligncare

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Re: No, You Didn't Really Watch Footage of New Jersey Muslims Celebrating
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2015, 04:05:23 pm »

All these cops must be lying:

"Since this dustup began dozens of New Jersey Police have called WOR in New York to say they were sent on calls to investigate the celebrations and witnessed same, and that there are even incident reports in the Newark PD about this. Similarly, there were reports of celebrations by Muslims in Brooklyn, Staten Island, Queens, Bronx."

Fireman and EMTs also reported seeing dancing in the streets after 9-11.

(I can't believe that some are still pushing this petty storyline that Trump is lying.)

Offline GAJohnnie

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Re: No, You Didn't Really Watch Footage of New Jersey Muslims Celebrating
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2015, 04:07:53 pm »
Washington Post Sept 18th 2001



    “Investigators said at least two of the hijackers, Nawaq Al Hamzi and Salem Al Hamzi are believed to have had addresses in Wayne and Fort Lee, NJ. The apparently rented a mailbox in Fort Lee at Mailboxes Etc. in Jersey City within hours of two jetliners plowing into the World Trade Center. Law enforcement authorities detained and questioned a number of people who were allegedly seen celebrating the attacks and holding tailgate-style parties on rooftops while they watched the devastation on the other side of the river.”




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8KdmyCh7z8

Howard Stern Caller Confirms Trump: Muslims Did Cheer After 9/11 [Call From September 12, 2001]

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/11/30/did-new-york-post-scrub-2001-story-because-it-supported-donald-trumps-claim/

Did New York Post Scrub 2001 Story Because It Supported Donald Trump’s Claim?…

Offline sinkspur

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Re: No, You Didn't Really Watch Footage of New Jersey Muslims Celebrating
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2015, 04:09:52 pm »
All these cops must be lying:

"Since this dustup began dozens of New Jersey Police have called WOR in New York to say they were sent on calls to investigate the celebrations and witnessed same, and that there are even incident reports in the Newark PD about this. Similarly, there were reports of celebrations by Muslims in Brooklyn, Staten Island, Queens, Bronx."

Fireman and EMTs also reported seeing dancing in the streets after 9-11.

(I can't believe that some are still pushing this petty storyline that Trump is lying.)

Where are you getting that?  Any direct quotes from anybody?  Did they say anything AT THE TIME?  There is no record of any kind of huge celebration by Muslims ("thousands and thousands") after 9/11 ANYWHERE in the US.

Of course Trump is lying.  He lies ALL THE TIME.  There weren't "thousands and thousands," and he knew Kovalevski ("I have the greatest memory of all time"). Except when he doesn't.

I've always respected your judgment, aligncare.  Until now.



Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: No, You Didn't Really Watch Footage of New Jersey Muslims Celebrating
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2015, 04:12:52 pm »
Where is the video of "thousands and thousands" of Muslims celebrating? 

If there was video of ANY Muslims celebrating, you know damned well it would have been produced by now because the media hates Trump's guts.

There wasn't any at the time and there isn't any now.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline GAJohnnie

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Re: No, You Didn't Really Watch Footage of New Jersey Muslims Celebrating
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2015, 04:28:53 pm »
Got it. Because the NRO author says it did not happen we should ignore what we all saw on 09-11, ignore the evidence we have complied and just accept that he NRO author opinions trump our facts.

So let break it down.

The is ample video evidence showing Muslims celebrating the 09-11 attacks around the world.

Larger numbers of Muslims live in NJ.

We have multiple reports of Muslims celebrating the 09-11 attacks in NJ

According to the NRO author, we did not see that. However the author presents no proof to challenge the evidence, instead merely gives us anecdotal evidence of other cases where people claim to have see things they did not see.

So based on the evidence, the NRO author attempt to commingle examples of false memory and the events of 09-11 in NJ is demonstrated logically irrelevant to the supposed point of his argument
« Last Edit: December 01, 2015, 04:29:46 pm by GAJohnnie »

Offline sinkspur

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Re: No, You Didn't Really Watch Footage of New Jersey Muslims Celebrating
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2015, 04:33:06 pm »
Got it. Because the NRO author says it did not happen we should ignore what we all saw on 09-11, ignore the evidence we have complied and just accept that he NRO author opinions trump our facts.

So let break it down.

The is ample video evidence showing Muslims celebrating the 09-11 attacks around the world.

Larger numbers of Muslims live in NJ.

We have multiple reports of Muslims celebrating the 09-11 attacks in NJ

According to the NRO author, we did not see that. However the author presents no proof to challenge the evidence, instead merely gives us anecdotal evidence of other cases where people claim to have see things they did not see.

So based on the evidence, the NRO author attempt to commingle examples of false memory and the events of 09-11 in NJ is demonstrated logically irrelevant to the supposed point of his argument

Based on the evidence, there is no evidence of large numbers of even medium numbers of Muslims celebrating 9/11 in the United States.  AT THE TIME, police departments in New Jersey were unable to verify   that there were celebrations of Muslims and there appears to be no video evidence to the contrary.

You did not see large numbers or medium numbers or even small numbers celebrating in the US. On the West Bank and Gaza, yes. Not here.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline aligncare

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Re: No, You Didn't Really Watch Footage of New Jersey Muslims Celebrating
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2015, 04:37:44 pm »

You just can't fix obstinance... **nononono*

Offline GAJohnnie

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Re: No, You Didn't Really Watch Footage of New Jersey Muslims Celebrating
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2015, 05:14:30 pm »
You just can't fix obstinance... **nononono*

Yep, no possibility of reasoning with irrationality. That is why debating Leftists is a waste of time. They simply will not accept any fact that challenges their emotion based opinions.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: No, You Didn't Really Watch Footage of New Jersey Muslims Celebrating
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2015, 05:52:16 pm »
Yep, no possibility of reasoning with irrationality. That is why debating Leftists is a waste of time. They simply will not accept any fact that challenges their emotion based opinions.

You're defending the King of Base Emotions.  You realize that, don't you?
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline EC

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Re: No, You Didn't Really Watch Footage of New Jersey Muslims Celebrating
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2015, 06:15:07 pm »
Got it. Because the NRO author says it did not happen we should ignore what we all saw on 09-11, ignore the evidence we have complied and just accept that he NRO author opinions trump our facts.

So let break it down.

The is ample video evidence showing Muslims celebrating the 09-11 attacks around the world.

Larger numbers of Muslims live in NJ.

We have multiple reports of Muslims celebrating the 09-11 attacks in NJ

According to the NRO author, we did not see that. However the author presents no proof to challenge the evidence, instead merely gives us anecdotal evidence of other cases where people claim to have see things they did not see.

So based on the evidence, the NRO author attempt to commingle examples of false memory and the events of 09-11 in NJ is demonstrated logically irrelevant to the supposed point of his argument

You see, this is why you guys are so damned bad at dealing with terrorists. You think they are stupid.

Towers are brought down by Muslim terrorists - a fact that comes out almost instantly. 3000 dead and an entire NATION acting like a swarm of angry wasps and you seriously think someone - because they are a Muzzie - would be freaking stupid enough to CELEBRATE PUBLICLY WITHIN SIGHT OF THE SMOKE!!!

That's why there is no video - it didn't bloody happen. If it had it would have been news WORLD WIDE! That's why the cops got call outs and nothing happened - because there was nothing to arrest them for.
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Offline Machiavelli

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Re: No, You Didn't Really Watch Footage of New Jersey Muslims Celebrating
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2015, 06:28:57 pm »
I'm sure there were celebrations in NJ. But "thousands and thousands"? I doubt it.

(You might ask how such celebrations could take place in the US. Well, don't forget that 19 years ago many thousands of people celebrated the acquittal of a double murderer.)


Offline aligncare

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Re: No, You Didn't Really Watch Footage of New Jersey Muslims Celebrating
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2015, 06:44:05 pm »

Yes all American Muslims are peaceful lovers of America.

This links to a YouTube video. It's a CNN report, but not post 9-11. It does however shed light on the problem—which was Donald Trump's point all along:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?autoplay=1&v=W5BtQgTGOI4

Offline EC

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Re: No, You Didn't Really Watch Footage of New Jersey Muslims Celebrating
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2015, 06:50:00 pm »
How you get "Yes all American Muslims are peaceful lovers of America." from "They are not freaking STUPID." is beyond me.  :shrug:

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Offline sinkspur

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Re: No, You Didn't Really Watch Footage of New Jersey Muslims Celebrating
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2015, 06:57:01 pm »
Yes all American Muslims are peaceful lovers of America.

This links to a YouTube video. It's a CNN report, but not post 9-11. It does however shed light on the problem—which was Donald Trump's point all along:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?autoplay=1&v=W5BtQgTGOI4

No. Trump's point was to rile up his supporters against Muslims by implying that "thousands and thousands" of American-Muslim citizens were celebrating the deaths of 3000 Americans, many of them Muslim themselves.

Trump is using the basest appeals to bigotry seen since Tom Tancredo's ill-fated campaign.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline GAJohnnie

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Re: No, You Didn't Really Watch Footage of New Jersey Muslims Celebrating
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2015, 06:58:32 pm »
You see, this is why you guys are so damned bad at dealing with terrorists. You think they are stupid.

Towers are brought down by Muslim terrorists - a fact that comes out almost instantly. 3000 dead and an entire NATION acting like a swarm of angry wasps and you seriously think someone - because they are a Muzzie - would be freaking stupid enough to CELEBRATE PUBLICLY WITHIN SIGHT OF THE SMOKE!!!

That's why there is no video - it didn't bloody happen. If it had it would have been news WORLD WIDE! That's why the cops got call outs and nothing happened - because there was nothing to arrest them for.

Under the 1st Amendment these celebrations would not be a crime. They would be in incredible bad taste but not a crime. The argument that because there were no arrests the celebrations people saw did not happen does not logically follow.

But I know, don't bother TDS suffers with facts and reason. It just causes cognitive dissonance

Offline aligncare

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Re: No, You Didn't Really Watch Footage of New Jersey Muslims Celebrating
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2015, 07:07:20 pm »

I personally have no proof, of course, but I also have no doubt that thousands and thousands of American Muslims were happy on 9-11.

"social scientists and researchers have spent a great deal of time trying to determine the number of Muslims in the United States. Most accept the estimate of from 5 million to 8 million. That is to say at least 5 million people in North America claim Islam as their religion and/or practice."

http://www.islam101.com/history/population2_usa.html

Pick whatever percentage you wish to use as the number of radicalized Muslims in any given population of Muslims, and that is a lot of radical America/Western-culture-hating Muslims.

Offline Machiavelli

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Breitbart Baloney: Site Changes Donald Trump's 9/11 Muslim Claims to Prove He's Right

Jordan Chariton
The Wrap
December 2, 2015

Quote
Many journalists have pressed Donald Trump and his campaign on the GOP presidential frontrunner's claim that "thousands and thousands" of New Jersey Muslims cheered while watching the World Trade Center towers collapse on 9/11.

They've relied on the basic journalistic premise that a handful of celebrating Muslims -- as multiple sources have confirmed -- is far different than thousands.

But two stories posted Wednesday on Breitbart.com, including one headlined "Trump 100% Vindicated: CBS Reports 'Swarm' On Rooftops Celebrating 9/11," try to back up the Republican presidential candidate using magical math, generous leaps of the imagination and alterations of Trump's actual claims.

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« Last Edit: December 03, 2015, 12:27:14 am by Machiavelli »