Author Topic: Never mind Muslims ... Can a Catholic be president?  (Read 676 times)

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rangerrebew

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Never mind Muslims ... Can a Catholic be president?
« on: September 28, 2015, 10:53:51 am »
Never mind Muslims ... Can a Catholic be president?
By Dan Hannan • 9/28/15 12:01 AM
 

Can a Roman Catholic be president of the United States? Silly question, right? Sixty-five years have passed since John F. Kennedy went from Mass at Holy Trinity in Georgetown to take his inauguration oath on the Fitzgerald family Bible; and, while there are plenty of grounds on which to criticize that priapic shyster, his faith isn't one of them.

Go back to the early days of the republic, though, and you find a very different attitude. John Jay, one of the Founding Fathers, who went on to become the first U.S. chief justice, argued that his home state of New York should extend full toleration to every sect "except the professors of the religion of the Church of Rome, who ought not to hold lands in, or be admitted to a participation of the civil rights enjoyed by the members of this state."

What made John Jay so skeptical? The same thing that makes many Americans skeptical about this hypothetical Muslim presidential candidate about which we keep reading so much. Jay had no problem with Catholic beliefs. He didn't complain about priestly celibacy or transubstantiation. What worried him, rather, was the idea that Catholics wouldn't be properly patriotic; that they might, in the last analysis, have divided loyalties.

The founders would have been shocked to see a pope addressing Congress — a pope, moreover, who openly urged American Catholics to support certain policies on climate change and migration.

"Can a free government possibly exist with the Roman Catholic religion?" asked John Adams. On this point, at least, his successor as president, Thomas Jefferson, agreed: "In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own."

In much the same way, the mild-mannered Ben Carson's objections to our imaginary Muslim candidate are political rather than theological. He's not fussed about the zakat or the hajj. But he wonders whether this candidate — the first candidate I know of who exists only in the subjunctive — would uphold American values.

His concerns, like Jay's, are a product of their era. When the United States was born, the English-speaking peoples had been in a state of intermittent war with the world's preponderant Catholic powers, France and Spain, for two centuries. Then as now, foreign policy had domestic consequences, and Catholics were seen — quite unfairly — as potential fifth columnists.

The founders, like today's politicians, also fretted about terrorism. Bonfires used to be lit across New England each November to mark the defeat of the Gunpowder Plot, the 1605 scheme to blow up the House of Commons and install a Catholic monarch. It was George Washington, hoping to win Canada for the Revolution, who ordered an end to the popular practice of burning the pope in effigy each anniversary. As the historian J.C.D. Clarke observes, "The virulence and power of popular American anti-Catholicism is the suppressed theme of colonial history."

Of course, the objections of Jay and Adams and Jefferson were refuted in practice when American Catholics enlisted in huge numbers in various wars. Immigrants from Ireland, Poland, Italy and, later, Latin America turned out not to be in the least servile or dictatorial. America's air worked the same magic on them as on everyone else.

Will Muslim-Americans be similarly assimilated? I'm optimistic. There are plenty of passages in the Old and New Testaments that can be read as incompatible with giving your first loyalty to a secular republic, but Jewish and Christian Americans, for the most part, have learned how to compartmentalize their beliefs.

It's a two-way process, of course. Muslim-Americans, like other religious newcomers before them, should loudly advertise their patriotism. All minorities must learn to respond to even the most hurtful accusations patiently and courteously. Sulkily demanding victim status is rarely popular.

But, in the end, I see no reason why our putative Muslim president shouldn't sincerely swear to uphold the Constitution — perhaps on Thomas Jefferson's own copy of the Quran, now in the Library of Congress. He might go on, in his inauguration speech, to point out that his was the only major religion founded by a businessman — a businessman who, in his last sermon, stressed the sanctity of property. Sanctity of property: Now there's as neat a summary of American values as you'll find.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/never-mind-muslims-...-can-a-catholic-be-president/article/2572743?custom_click=rss
« Last Edit: September 28, 2015, 10:54:41 am by rangerrebew »

Offline aligncare

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Re: Never mind Muslims ... Can a Catholic be president?
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2015, 12:20:50 pm »

I'm not the best Catholic but there's nothing that I'm aware of in the Christian Bible that commands followers to spread their belief by the sword and decapitate nonbelievers.

Offline raml

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Re: Never mind Muslims ... Can a Catholic be president?
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2015, 06:21:25 pm »
Well I use to be Catholic went 12 yrs to their schools and had 4 years of bible study and am a Christian now and no in the new testament the violence is minimal and done to either Christ or Christians not at all telling them to kill or decapitate or lie to infidels. The old testament is pretty much the Jewish Torah and God did order others killed but that was long long ago and today he had not ordered anyone that I know of to kill anyone unless you count maybe some of the crazy people who hears voices and thinks God is telling him to kill but that is not in the bible.  The Catholic church today is pretty tame although the Catholic church was violent in the middle ages and killed anyone who didn't believe the same but they did that because of "popes" not anything the bible said so I wouldn't want a Catholic to even allow the pope again into DC. if he agreed to that then yes I could vote for a Catholic.

Godzilla

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Re: Never mind Muslims ... Can a Catholic be president?
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2015, 09:19:49 pm »
I'm not the best Catholic but there's nothing that I'm aware of in the Christian Bible that commands followers to spread their belief by the sword and decapitate nonbelievers.

The Pope sure fanned that idea, though.  Prussians were only Prussian in name only.  The Teutonic Knights either killed or sold into slavery all of them.

---

And, amazingly, I touched on this topic in this thread: http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,181329.0.html

Yet, the response was very much scorn and derision.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2015, 09:22:57 pm by Godzilla »

Offline ABX

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Re: Never mind Muslims ... Can a Catholic be president?
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2015, 09:30:15 pm »
Quote
...What worried him, rather, was the idea that Catholics wouldn't be properly patriotic; that they might, in the last analysis, have divided loyalties....

That concern can be attributed to adherents of any religion. It all depends on how the individual sees his or her religion and personal role. On paper, Reverend Wright is just the pastor of the Trinity United Church of Christ and if you didn't know who he was or what he preached, one would think he was mainstream Christian simply based on his church's denomination. How he approaches that though is an antithesis of Constitutional limited government and the blessing this country is.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Never mind Muslims ... Can a Catholic be president?
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2015, 12:13:03 am »
To start - I know a number of good Catholics, who are also patriotic Americans.  I won't knock a fellow Christian because I don't agree with their "brand".

To me the issue is more the worldview engendered by Catholicism vs. protestantism. 

Catholicism is a top-down, rigidly hierarchical denomination, where the priest and church are the elite conduit between the people and God.  Protestants go directly to God.   I think that creates two very different ways of thinking and seeing the world.  I would even go so far to say that a good, staunch Catholic nation could not have come up with the Constitution and our form of government.

Having said that, I don't fear Catholics or Catholicism, and wouldn't have a problem with a Catholic president, as long as the checks and measures that our founding fathers built into our form of government are in place and healthy.  (They're not now.)
« Last Edit: September 29, 2015, 12:14:30 am by Sanguine »

Offline Fishrrman

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Re: Never mind Muslims ... Can a Catholic be president?
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2015, 01:44:23 am »
[[ Will Muslim-Americans be similarly assimilated? I'm optimistic. ]]

This is a joke..... right....?

Offline aligncare

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Re: Never mind Muslims ... Can a Catholic be president?
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2015, 05:49:30 am »
[[ Will Muslim-Americans be similarly assimilated? I'm optimistic. ]]

This is a joke..... right....?

I must repeat myself here.

Human nature has not changed simply because mankind is now technologically advanced. It just means our ignorance and means of warring is more rapid, destructive and deadly. I agree with Fishrrman. The nature of Islam is to conquer and subjugate the Judeo Christian world by any means necessary.

But it is against modern Catholic teaching to force conversion or to be disloyal to one's government.