Dealers, owners feel frustrated and betrayed by VW scandal

[bkepley]

By GILLIAN FLACCUS and TOM KRISHER
My Way

LOS ANGELES (AP) — Bob Rand bought his Volkswagen Passat last year for its clean emissions and high gas mileage. He liked the car so much he convinced his son and a friend to buy one, too.

Now, as Volkswagen comes clean about rigging diesel emissions to pass U.S. tests, Rand is desperately trying to sell the fully loaded model with white leather seats for $10,000 below what he paid. His sole bite has been from a man who offered $7,500 on speculation that he could resell it in Mexico.

"Volkswagen was somebody that you could rely on for cutting-edge products and quality and all those things and now you find out that they're not above lying just flat out," said Rand, who plans to join a class-action lawsuit against VW. "That's probably about as bad a thing as a company can do is lie to your face when you're buying a $35,000 car."

Rand's anger at the world's top-selling car company was echoed Wednesday by private dealers, auto wholesalers and owners across the U.S. as fallout from the smog test trickery mounted.

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency first disclosed Friday that stealth software makes VW's 2009-2015 model cars powered by 2.0-liter diesel engines run cleaner during emissions tests than in actual driving. On Wednesday, Volkswagen CEO Martin Winterkorn resigned and took responsibility for the "irregularities" found by U.S. inspectors — a scandal that has wiped out billions in the company's market value and raised the possibility of criminal investigations and billions more in fines.

The revelations left dealers sitting on hundreds of diesel cars they could not sell. Many also dealt with a flood of angry calls, emails and tweets from Volkswagen owners who felt betrayed because they believed they had bought a car that polluted less without sacrificing the good gas mileage and performance that comes with a diesel engine.
...
More: http://apnews.myway.com/article/20150924/us--venting_about_volkswagen-3dec04083f.html

VW is in some very deep...

[mountaineer]

For some reason, I'm very interested in buying a VW diesel right now ...

[bkepley]

For some reason, I'm very interested in buying a VW diesel right now ...

Now would be a good time.

[truth_seeker]

I purchased a VW TDI on Monday, September 7, 2015. It is mainly for my wife. We agreed it was time for a high fuel economy vehicle. I suffer from the "German car guy" disease. Had to try one.

So the damaging announcement took place last Friday, September 18, 2015. For a mere 11 days I basked in the intellectual pride that my car's "tdi" insignia identified me as "smart," "earth friendly" etc.

Then it turned 180 degrees. Now I am a polluter, and a fool.

I am seriously considering removal of the "tdi"  insignia, and merely enjoying 35-45 mpg, incognito.

Seriously I hope there is a simple "fix" since BMW, Mercedes and General Motors have similar diesel engines in the US, which pass pollution tests honestly.

[mountaineer]

Time to buy a VW!
Yahoo Finance
By Rick Newman
September 23, 2015 3:12 PM

Something is rotten in the city of Wolfsburg. But there may never be a better time to buy a car from the auto giant that’s based there.

Volkswagen, the world’s biggest automaker, suddenly needs a tow truck as it lurches through a surreal case of corporate cheating. The German car manufacturer apparently installed software on 11 million diesel-powered vehicles worldwide that disables pollution controls during ordinary driving, allowing toxic emissions far above allowable standards. The only time the pollution controls work is when the engine is hooked up to an emission-testing machine, which is surely one of the more diabolical innovations in automotive history.

VW can correct the software, but that may reduce the fuel economy and degrade the sporty performance of vehicles such as the turbodiesel (or TDI) versions of the Beetle, Golf, Jetta and Passat, which enthusiasts love for their muscular pickup, high mileage and long hauls between fillups. So far, the scandal has slashed VW’s stock price by 32% and blown about $30 billion off its market value. CEO Martin Winkerkorn is gone and the obligatory class-action lawsuits have already begun. Meanwhile, VW is prohibited from selling diesels in the United States until the government gives the okay.

That makes it a grim time for VW—but maybe a happy time for buyers who want one of its cars. Buyers shouldn’t expect to find fire sales at VW showrooms, but there may be selective discounts as dealer inventory piles up, especially if shoppers stay away. There are early signs that is actually happening. Research firm YouGovBrandIndex finds that VW’s reputational “score” has fallen to the lowest level in at least 6 years. And car-shopping site TrueCar says consumer searches are down 4% during the last week for Volkswagen cars in general, and 29% for Volkswagen diesels (which aren't for sale at the moment, anyway).

Since the scandal is only a few days old, there’s not yet any data showing whether transaction prices for Volkswagen models have fallen. But VW dealers clearly have a problem. Diesels account for about 22% of all VW sales in the U.S. market, and with those models off the shelf, inventory will pile up at dealerships. That could force dealers to unload other models just to make space in their lots for the vehicles they’re not allowed to sell. VW has offered dealers some financial help to weather the crisis, but the longer it takes VW to address the problem, the more likely discounts will become.

Prices and market share often dip during an automaker scandal—but not for long. Most of the big automakers have endured safety controversies or bouts of bad publicity during recent years—General Motors for defective ignition switches, Honda for faulty Takata air bags, Toyota for unintended acceleration—with surprisingly similar results. “The majority of recalls don’t have any statistically significant impact on market share or pricing over the long term,” says Eric Lyman of TrueCar. Car buyers tend to have short memories, and once a problem is solved, buyers return to showrooms.

VW’s cheating scandal may be different, for two reasons. First, it appears to be a deliberate attempt to deceive regulators and consumers, rather than an engineering or manufacturing mistake, which is much more common. “This is an unprecedented scandal in that there was manipulation and intent,” says Lyman. “That would seem to lend itself to negative consumer sentiment.”

Second, the diesels in question, once they’re modified, could basically end up as different cars, with less appealing fuel economy and performance. If so, many buyers will undoubtedly feel ripped off. Lemon laws in many states allow buyers to return cars that are defective in some way, but that often entails arbitration or a battle with the dealer. VW may consider measures making it easier for buyers to bring their car back and get a refund.

The most likely discounts will apply to VW’s new diesels, once they go back on sale, and to used diesels affected by the recall. Eric Ibara of car-shopping site Kelley Blue Book doesn’t think any price cuts will last for long. “It wouldn’t surprise me if there was initial softness in turbodiesels,” he says. “But it would be quite unusual if VW’s TDI values were to drop and stay down.”

VW’s gas-powered models aren’t affected by the stop-sale order on diesels. But if dealers have to discount those models to get buyers in the door, the best deals will probably be on the Tiguan and Touareg SUVs and on the CC sedan, which are older models already being discounted at many dealers.  ...

Rest of article

I think I would like to  buy a VW diesel just to salute them for trying to bypass the EPA's requirements.

[Oceander]

Another thing to consider is that VW has just agreed to offer dealers financial support, which will include guaranteed payments on all sold cars, including the non-diesels, for right now.  Basically, it would be 1% of MSRP, plus for cars sold in September, another $300 ($600 for the Passat).  In other words, the dealers can now afford to sell at their exact purchase price and still make a profit.

[bkepley]

Time to buy a VW!
Yahoo Finance
By Rick Newman
September 23, 2015 3:12 PMRest of article

I think I would like to  buy a VW diesel just to salute them for trying to bypass the EPA's requirements.

Well that's kind of low given that American automakers (and others) have to meet the requirements legitimately.

[flowers]

I heard the fines will be 37k a car. In the billions for the VW fines.

[Oceander]

I heard the fines will be 37k a car. In the billions for the VW fines.

Apparently the EPA could potentially assess up to $18 billion in fines; however, I've heard that it's likely to be much less than that - VW and the EPA will negotiate something out.  That being said, the $7 billion VW has already earmarked for this mess is still too low.

[Godzilla]

Well that's kind of low given that American automakers (and others) have to meet the requirements legitimately.

American car companies don't sell diesel passenger cars in the US.

[GourmetDan]

I think I would like to  buy a VW diesel just to salute them for trying to bypass the EPA's requirements.

How interesting that GM's ignition switch fiasco that killed over 100 people has a lower fine than VW.

Air is more important than people...

[bkepley]

American car companies don't sell diesel passenger cars in the US.

Do they sell any outside the US?  I assume if so they're not supposed to cheat EPA.  Also I said "and other countries".  Look I hate the EPA as much as the next guy but being an embedded systems programmer it is beyond belief what VW did here...something I would have expected from a Chinese company possibly.

[ABX]

Well that's kind of low given that American automakers (and others) have to meet the requirements legitimately.

I would not be surprised if they all do what VW does in some form or fashion. Most cars these days, you can drastically change the HP, mileage, and emissions via computer tweaks w/ out touching the hardware of the car outside the OBD port. It wouldn't be that far off to think they all can do what VW did, program a better emission reading if certain criteria are met (whatever it detects during emissions testing).

[bkepley]

I would not be surprised if they all do what VW does in some form or fashion. Most cars these days, you can drastically change the HP, mileage, and emissions via computer tweaks w/ out touching the hardware of the car outside the OBD port. It wouldn't be that far off to think they all can do what VW did, program a better emission reading if certain criteria are met (whatever it detects during emissions testing).

It's more than that and blatant.

[truth_seeker]

American car companies don't sell diesel passenger cars in the US.

You might want to double check, for you will find the Chevrolet Cruze has a diesel model, much like the VW Jetta.

[Godzilla]

You might want to double check, for you will find the Chevrolet Cruze has a diesel model, much like the VW Jetta.

I thought that was for the Chinese market.  Did GM actually start selling it here?  If so, kudos to GM!