Author Topic: Rand Paul: Dick Cheney 'Wrong' About Almost Every Foreign Policy Decision  (Read 20089 times)

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Offline flowers

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Re: Rand Paul: Dick Cheney 'Wrong' About Almost Every Foreign Policy Decision
« Reply #75 on: September 05, 2015, 07:18:43 pm »
Low Winter Sun.....Season 1 

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2314792/

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They canceled that one. I liked it.


Offline Bigun

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Re: Rand Paul: Dick Cheney 'Wrong' About Almost Every Foreign Policy Decision
« Reply #76 on: September 05, 2015, 08:00:34 pm »
Bombs have their place, though I do prefer missiles from fairly close range - I dislike collateral damage of innocents intensely. Training camp? Bomb the shit out of it. ISIS convoy? It should be smoking piles of scrap metal within minutes. Find a higher up? Take out the building and apologise to the innocents later, or at least send a wreath.

Indiscriminate bombing though, in the mold of Dresden - nope. The fight against ISIS will have to be more like Vietnam - where WE are the Viet Kong.

Spot on!  :beer:
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

bkepley

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Re: Rand Paul: Dick Cheney 'Wrong' About Almost Every Foreign Policy Decision
« Reply #77 on: September 05, 2015, 08:06:43 pm »
Bombs have their place, though I do prefer missiles from fairly close range - I dislike collateral damage of innocents intensely. Training camp? Bomb the shit out of it. ISIS convoy? It should be smoking piles of scrap metal within minutes. Find a higher up? Take out the building and apologise to the innocents later, or at least send a wreath.

Indiscriminate bombing though, in the mold of Dresden - nope. The fight against ISIS will have to be more like Vietnam - where WE are the Viet Kong.

The Viet Cong were the Viet Cong because they were fighting in their own country against foreigners.

Offline Carling

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Re: Rand Paul: Dick Cheney 'Wrong' About Almost Every Foreign Policy Decision
« Reply #78 on: September 05, 2015, 08:27:25 pm »
Iraq would be fine if Obama had allowed a few permanent bases.  Instead, he pulled out, armed ISIS in Syria, backed Iran, and here we are!
Trump has created a cult and looks more and more like Hitler every day.
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Offline Dexter

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Re: Rand Paul: Dick Cheney 'Wrong' About Almost Every Foreign Policy Decision
« Reply #79 on: September 05, 2015, 08:27:33 pm »
Take a look at Viet Nam, pal. Same political cowardice, same U.S troops and policy sacrificed. And yeah, you can defeat extremism with bombs. Just takes lots of bombs, and the WILL to use them.

Going into Vietnam was a mistake too.
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Offline Bigun

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Re: Rand Paul: Dick Cheney 'Wrong' About Almost Every Foreign Policy Decision
« Reply #80 on: September 05, 2015, 08:28:08 pm »
The Viet Cong were the Viet Cong because they were fighting in their own country against foreigners.

The Viet Cong ceased to exist as a fighting force in the 1968 Tet offensive. (The long stated policy of U.S. military there had worked.) Virtually all the fighting following that was carried out by NVA forces and their Chinese advisors. U.S. forces never lost a single major battle there and the South Vietnam forces held their own quite well after U.s. forces were removed until the democrats in Congress here cut off the supplies handing the country to North Vietnam in doing so.

"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Dexter

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Re: Rand Paul: Dick Cheney 'Wrong' About Almost Every Foreign Policy Decision
« Reply #81 on: September 05, 2015, 08:33:56 pm »
Japanese and German extremism WAS defeated by bombs. By bombs and by enough troops to occupy and hold the nation to their unconditional surrender.

Shall I once again go over the reasons why it is unrealistic to draw parallels between Nazi Germany and Islamic extremism?
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bkepley

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Re: Rand Paul: Dick Cheney 'Wrong' About Almost Every Foreign Policy Decision
« Reply #82 on: September 05, 2015, 08:36:20 pm »
The Viet Cong ceased to exist as a fighting force in the 1968 Tet offensive. (The long stated policy of U.S. military there had worked.) Virtually all the fighting following that was carried out by NVA forces and their Chinese advisors. U.S. forces never lost a single major battle there and the South Vietnam forces held their own quite well after U.s. forces were removed until the democrats in Congress here cut off the supplies handing the country to North Vietnam in doing so.

In following the thread I thought we were kind of admiring the fighting spirit of the Viet Cong.  To tell the truth I don't know much about that war.  My opinion, for what it is worth, is that we were mistaken about what the war was about.  For the enemy it was a war about nationalism, not communism which they knew little about.

Offline Dexter

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Re: Rand Paul: Dick Cheney 'Wrong' About Almost Every Foreign Policy Decision
« Reply #83 on: September 05, 2015, 08:36:26 pm »
The first sentence is true enough.  And that is lacking.

Be that as it may, bombs are quite useful as part of the arsenal used to defeat barbarians like ISIS and the other muslim militants.  Would giving ISIS the same talkey-talkey/kissey-kissey we just finished giving Iran have prevented them from beheading and torturing all the innocents they've killed?  Or stop them from destroying all of the antiquities they've destroyed?  Only a moron, or a liberal, would think so.

ISIS wouldn't exist if we had never started dropping bombs.
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bkepley

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Re: Rand Paul: Dick Cheney 'Wrong' About Almost Every Foreign Policy Decision
« Reply #84 on: September 05, 2015, 08:42:58 pm »
ISIS wouldn't exist if we had never started dropping bombs.

Isis began in Syria.

Offline Dexter

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Re: Rand Paul: Dick Cheney 'Wrong' About Almost Every Foreign Policy Decision
« Reply #85 on: September 05, 2015, 08:45:46 pm »
Isis began in Syria.

ISIS wouldn't be able to do what they do without the military equipment they acquired thanks to our warmongering.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2015, 10:37:11 pm by Dexter »
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bkepley

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Re: Rand Paul: Dick Cheney 'Wrong' About Almost Every Foreign Policy Decision
« Reply #86 on: September 05, 2015, 08:51:13 pm »
ISIS wouldn't be able to do what they do without the military equipment they acquired thanks to our war mongering.

W.a.r. M.o.n.g.e.r.i.n.g.   It is hopeless to suppose you will discuss this in a reasonable way.

Offline Dexter

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Re: Rand Paul: Dick Cheney 'Wrong' About Almost Every Foreign Policy Decision
« Reply #87 on: September 05, 2015, 08:53:00 pm »
W.a.r. M.o.n.g.e.r.i.n.g.   It is hopeless to suppose you will discuss this in a reasonable way.

You didn't address the point I made. ISIS would not exist if we had never gone to war.
"I know one thing, that I know nothing."
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Offline EC

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Re: Rand Paul: Dick Cheney 'Wrong' About Almost Every Foreign Policy Decision
« Reply #88 on: September 05, 2015, 08:53:08 pm »
In following the thread I thought we were kind of admiring the fighting spirit of the Viet Cong.  To tell the truth I don't know much about that war.  My opinion, for what it is worth, is that we were mistaken about what the war was about.  For the enemy it was a war about nationalism, not communism which they knew little about.

You aren't far wrong, from their perspective. Here: http://www.cracked.com/personal-experiences-1562-8-facts-about-vietnam-war-i-learned-as-viet-cong.html

Yes - I know it's a comedy site. Yes - I know it's a bit left leaning at times. I also know the guy who set up the PE articles and he fact checks like the media should but never do.

The point I was making is that to defeat ISIS totally and completely, where they will not re-emerge for generations if ever, WE will have to be the terrorists. The guerrilla fighters. The killers in the night. That is never going to happen.
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Offline Bigun

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Re: Rand Paul: Dick Cheney 'Wrong' About Almost Every Foreign Policy Decision
« Reply #89 on: September 05, 2015, 09:29:40 pm »
You aren't far wrong, from their perspective. Here: http://www.cracked.com/personal-experiences-1562-8-facts-about-vietnam-war-i-learned-as-viet-cong.html

Yes - I know it's a comedy site. Yes - I know it's a bit left leaning at times. I also know the guy who set up the PE articles and he fact checks like the media should but never do.

The point I was making is that to defeat ISIS totally and completely, where they will not re-emerge for generations if ever, WE will have to be the terrorists. The guerrilla fighters. The killers in the night. That is never going to happen.

I think it's much simpler than that. I think all we need to do is get rid of the Mullah regime in Iran and make it very clear that we have had enough of that sort of thing.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Bigun

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Re: Rand Paul: Dick Cheney 'Wrong' About Almost Every Foreign Policy Decision
« Reply #90 on: September 05, 2015, 09:31:30 pm »
ISIS wouldn't exist if we had never started dropping bombs.

You are a complete fool.

ISIS would not exist without the aid of the Iran Ian agent currently occupying the Whitehouse. If Mitt Romney were president there would be no such thing as ISIS.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2015, 09:36:53 pm by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

bkepley

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Re: Rand Paul: Dick Cheney 'Wrong' About Almost Every Foreign Policy Decision
« Reply #91 on: September 05, 2015, 09:33:34 pm »
I think it's much simpler than that. I think all we need to do is get rid of the Mullah regime in Iran and make it very clear that we have had enough of that sort of thing.

It would be nice if Iran was the focus of evil but it's just one of many bad actors.

Offline Bigun

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Re: Rand Paul: Dick Cheney 'Wrong' About Almost Every Foreign Policy Decision
« Reply #92 on: September 05, 2015, 09:37:59 pm »
It would be nice if Iran was the focus of evil but it's just one of many bad actors.

All following the lead of and financed by Iran.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

bkepley

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Re: Rand Paul: Dick Cheney 'Wrong' About Almost Every Foreign Policy Decision
« Reply #93 on: September 05, 2015, 09:43:52 pm »
All following the lead of and financed by Iran.

Come on you know that is not true.  Isis is Sunii and they hate the Iranians maybe more than they hate us.  Every day there are Shia vs Sunii or vice versa atrocities in the Muslim world.  They are tribal people.  They won't be lead by Iran or anyone else unless it is approved by the tribal leader.

Offline Bigun

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Re: Rand Paul: Dick Cheney 'Wrong' About Almost Every Foreign Policy Decision
« Reply #94 on: September 05, 2015, 09:46:44 pm »
Come on you know that is not true.  Isis is Sunii and they hate the Iranians maybe more than they hate us.  Every day there are Shia vs Sunii or vice versa atrocities in the Muslim world.  They are tribal people.  They won't be lead by Iran or anyone else unless it is approved by the tribal leader.

Useful idiots to be disposed of when no longer needed.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline DCPatriot

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Re: Rand Paul: Dick Cheney 'Wrong' About Almost Every Foreign Policy Decision
« Reply #95 on: September 05, 2015, 09:50:22 pm »
Thanks for movie tip.

Amazon Prime has a new ten episode series called "The Hand of God" starring Ron Perlman.

I think the fact Netflix and Amazon are producing their own content is wonderful. Puts more competition into the mix.

How is that for a thread hijack? 

 :laugh:
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bkepley

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Re: Rand Paul: Dick Cheney 'Wrong' About Almost Every Foreign Policy Decision
« Reply #96 on: September 05, 2015, 09:53:12 pm »
Useful idiots to be disposed of when no longer needed.

I think you give Iran's rulers too much credit.

Offline Carling

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Re: Rand Paul: Dick Cheney 'Wrong' About Almost Every Foreign Policy Decision
« Reply #97 on: September 06, 2015, 10:26:13 pm »
ISIS wouldn't exist if we had never started dropping bombs.

How do you explain the atrocities of the Islamic Crusades? 

Your opinion is laughable, but I am appreciative that you don't pretend to be a "moderate" these days.  You weren't fooling anyone.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2015, 10:27:19 pm by Carling »
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Offline Dexter

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Re: Rand Paul: Dick Cheney 'Wrong' About Almost Every Foreign Policy Decision
« Reply #98 on: September 06, 2015, 10:38:40 pm »
How do you explain the atrocities of the Islamic Crusades? 

Non sequitur.

Your opinion is laughable, but I am appreciative that you don't pretend to be a "moderate" these days.  You weren't fooling anyone.

Your obsession is creepy.
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Offline Bigun

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Re: Rand Paul: Dick Cheney 'Wrong' About Almost Every Foreign Policy Decision
« Reply #99 on: September 06, 2015, 10:42:48 pm »
I think you give Iran's rulers too much credit.

Think whatever you like my friend but you are very wrong!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien