Ted Cruz: 'I Stand With Kim Davis'

[sinkspur]

I, for one, am not arguing about her religious beliefs one way or the other. What I AM arguing about is the LAW that this woman swore to follow and I see no law on the books in the state of Kentucky that says she is authorized to issue a marriage license to a same sex couple!

Federal law takes precedence over state law, and, you know very well Bigun, that SC decisions are effectively law.

This woman should have stood aside and let her associates issue the licenses.  But she put the weight of her office behind her decision, which was a huge mistake.

[Bigun]

Federal law takes precedence over state law, and, you know very well Bigun, that SC decisions are effectively law.

This woman should have stood aside and let her associates issue the licenses.  But she put the weight of her office behind her decision, which was a huge mistake.

NO I do not know that! Show me the federal LAW - passed by congress and signed by the president - that trumps Kentucky state law!

[sinkspur]

NO I do not know that! Show me the federal LAW - passed by congress and signed by the president - that trumps Kentucky state law!

SC overturns laws all the time.  When it does, those laws are null.  You know that, Bigun. Or you should.

[Machiavelli]

Marco Rubio stands by Kentucky clerk who won’t issue gay marriage licenses.

Shocking?

No. Pandering.

It's what politicians do.

Yes. And it's more ammunition for those who claim that the Republican party has been taken over by religious zealots.

[Paladin]

Interesting.  We have conservatives supporting a woman who is defying a Supreme Court ruling, which is, effectively, law.

The same conservatives who squeal about Obama's defiance of the law.

The law is the law. We either uphold the laws until we can overturn them, or we're as corrupt as Obama.

One of her subordinates is now granting those licenses.  So, what has she gained? Other than a nod from an opportunist like Ted Cruz?

"Ted Cruz: If Kim Davis Gets Punished for Not Following the Law, Obama Should Be Too"

"And with all the calls for her to resign, Cruz asked, “Where is the call for President Obama to resign for ignoring and defying our immigration laws, our welfare reform laws, and even his own Obamacare?”

Not sure why Ted's call for equal application of the law is "opportunism". Seems perfectly rational to me. Please explain your statement.


Machiavelli, would you also explain how asking for equal application of the law for all is an example of religious zealotry?


 

[Bigun]

SC overturns laws all the time.  When it does, those laws are null.  You know that, Bigun. Or you should.

But they do not and cannot MAKE law Sink! They are not KINGS! This County Clerk was just following the law that currently exists! If the court wants to get on someone's case it should be the state of Kentucky not her!

[Machiavelli]

Other presidential hopefuls who have, so far, hopped on this Pandrama Express include Huckabee, Paul, and Jindal.

[bkepley]

Other presidential hopefuls who have, so far, hopped on this Pandrama Express include Huckabee, Paul, and Jindal.

Paul is kinda wierd.  Desperate I guess.

[Machiavelli]

Machiavelli, would you also explain how asking for equal application of the law for all is an example of religious zealotry?

I don't know if this is an equal-application-of-the-law situation or not, but I didn't say that asking for equal application of the law for all is an example of religious zealotry. I'm not one of those Leftists who screams, "The theocrats are coming! The theocrats are coming!"

[Godzilla]

The law goes against her RELIGIOUS BELIEFS which is (supposed to be) protected under the 1st amendment.

One's religious beliefs end where another's begin.  That is what is missing here.  Those that seek a marriage certificate also have religious beliefs that say it is allowable.  Why should their religious beliefs be infringed?

No one is forcing Kim Davis to work at a job her conscience clearly keeps her from doing.  Any more than a clerk at Hobby Lobby is forced to continue working at a place that might violate their conscience.

[Godzilla]

If we are going to defend this lady's right to "follow her beliefs", can I see an equally spirited defense being made in this thread please?

Heh.

It's always been about the ability to foist one's own religion onto those that may not believe in it.

[libertybele]

One's religious beliefs end where another's begin.  That is what is missing here.  Those that seek a marriage certificate also have religious beliefs that say it is allowable.  Why should their religious beliefs be infringed?

No one is forcing Kim Davis to work at a job her conscience clearly keeps her from doing.  Any more than a clerk at Hobby Lobby is forced to continue working at a place that might violate their conscience.

I don't see that "same sex marriage" is a religious belief; it is purely sexual preference.

[Godzilla]

I don't see that "same sex marriage" is a religious belief; it is purely sexual preference.

And that's your belief.  Gays will probably disagree with you.

[libertybele]

And that's your belief.  Gays will probably disagree with you.

I've heard of the Catholic, Episcopal, Protestant, Jewish, Hindu, Budhist, Lutheran, Muslim, Mormon etc., etc., religion but I have never heard of the "Gay" religion.

[bkepley]

I've heard of the Catholic, Episcopal, Protestant, Jewish, Hindu, Budhist, Lutheran, Muslim, Mormon etc., etc., religion but I have never heard of the "Gay" religion.

I agree...cannot figure that one out at all.  Too many brewskies?

[aligncare]

NO I do not know that! Show me the federal LAW - passed by congress and signed by the president - that trumps Kentucky state law!

If every thread is gonna be used as an excuse to talk about Donald Trump, well then I'm getting outta here 

[massadvj]

I have to side with the court on this one.  If this lady has a religious conviction against issuing marriage licenses to gays then she should resign her post.  As a public official she is duty-bound to uphold the law, and gay marriage is the legitimate law whether she likes it or not.  Jesus himself admonished us to "give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar, and give to God what belongs to God."  (Mark 12:17)  If she was a minister of a church and refused to marry gays under the freedom of religion clause, I'd have a completely different view of the matter.  But she works for Caesar and therefore is duty-bound to Caesar, whether Caesar be right or wrong.

I do think putting her in jail was a mistake as it will only serve to make her a martyr and stir things up unnecessarily.  But she is in contempt and there are consequences for that.  Now if only the people in the federal system would enforce the immigration laws as vigorously as they enforce stuff like this.

[Oceander]

Uhhm, I know I'm late to the party and all that, but as I understand it, this person is a government official who has taken an oath to carry out the duties of her public office.  Part and parcel of that duty is to perform her duties to issue licenses that are permitted by law, including the Constitution as interpreted by the Supreme Court.  A public official is duty-bound to fully perform the duties of their office, and if he or she finds those duties to be contrary to her personal beliefs, then the only legitimate course of action she has is to resign.

The fact of the matter is, the only person who is acting lawlessly here is Ms. Kim Davis.

[Oceander]

NO I do not know that! Show me the federal LAW - passed by congress and signed by the president - that trumps Kentucky state law!

Are you serious?

Put this in your pipe and smoke it:

This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding.

Article VI, clause 2 of the Constitution of the United States of America
(emphasis mine)

What part of "shall be the supreme law of the land" do you not understand?

[mystery-ak]

I have to side with the court on this one.  If this lady has a religious conviction against issuing marriage licenses to gays then she should resign her post.  As a public official she is duty-bound to uphold the law, and gay marriage is the legitimate law whether she likes it or not.  Jesus himself admonished us to "give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar, and give to God what belongs to God."  (Mark 12:17)  If she was a minister of a church and refused to marry gays under the freedom of religion clause, I'd have a completely different view of the matter.  But she works for Caesar and therefore is duty-bound to Caesar, whether Caesar be right or wrong.

I do think putting her in jail was a mistake as it will only serve to make her a martyr and stir things up unnecessarily.  But she is in contempt and there are consequences for that.  Now if only the people in the federal system would enforce the immigration laws as vigorously as they enforce stuff like this.

I have to agree Victor...she needs to look for another job imho cause she isn't gonna change the law all by herself.

[massadvj]

I have to agree Victor...she needs to look for another job imho cause she isn't gonna change the law all by herself.

I love it when we agree.  Let's hug!

[Oceander]

I love it when we agree.  Let's hug!

Keep it clean kids!! 

[EC]

If we are going to defend this lady's right to "follow her beliefs", can I see an equally spirited defense being made in this thread please?

Still nothing.

I guess it really is more "My ox got gored" here than actual 1st Amendment support. 

[Godzilla]

I've heard of the Catholic, Episcopal, Protestant, Jewish, Hindu, Budhist, Lutheran, Muslim, Mormon etc., etc., religion but I have never heard of the "Gay" religion.

Considering that gays get married in churches, mosques, temples, and synagogues of denominations that believe that it is allowable...  they believe in a variant of the religions you profess.

Why should those be discriminated against?

The point, which I made in my original post... is being ignored.
"One's religious beliefs end where another's begin."

[Oceander]

Still nothing.

I guess it really is more "My ox got gored" here than actual 1st Amendment support. 

look now.