Is taking drugs a human right? A cross-party group of MPs and peers think so

[Dexter]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/is-taking-drugs-a-human-right-a-crossparty-group-of-mps-and-peers-think-so-10461824.html

Taking drugs is a human right, according to a cross-party group of MPs and peers who want to legalise the possession, purchase and growing of drugs. The All-Party Parliamentary Group for Drug Policy Reform want to use human rights legislation to decriminalise drug use, claiming the "blanket prohibition" drug policy approach has failed. In a new report it suggests that Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights, which outlines rights to "private and family life", could be used by defendants caught with illegal drugs. It says drug laws needed to “reflect the supremacy of human rights conventions" and suggests that as long as drug taking does not harm others, it should not be a criminal offence.

[truth_seeker]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/is-taking-drugs-a-human-right-a-crossparty-group-of-mps-and-peers-think-so-10461824.html

Taking drugs is a human right, according to a cross-party group of MPs and peers who want to legalise the possession, purchase and growing of drugs. The All-Party Parliamentary Group for Drug Policy Reform want to use human rights legislation to decriminalise drug use, claiming the "blanket prohibition" drug policy approach has failed. In a new report it suggests that Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights, which outlines rights to "private and family life", could be used by defendants caught with illegal drugs. It says drug laws needed to “reflect the supremacy of human rights conventions" and suggests that as long as drug taking does not harm others, it should not be a criminal offence.

Marijuana fine. Meth no way.

[Dexter]

Marijuana fine. Meth no way.

What do you accomplish by making meth illegal? Do people stop using it? People will do what they want to do with their own body regardless of laws that tell them not to. When you take a product that people want and you make it illegal you are simply creating an opportunity for the black market to make a lot of money. The drug war is a boon to drug lords and violent street gangs; it's how they make their money. We spend 80 billion dollars a year enforcing drug laws that make the problem worse. If we want to do something meaningful we should tax drugs and use some of the taxes to fund public services that help drug addicts.

[Relic]

This is a topic that I can appreciate both sides of the argument. On one side, there is personal responsibility, and the liberty to make your own choices, even if they're bad choices. On the other hand, we do have responsibility to look out for the least among us, those who would make those bad choices. I think the thing that tips the scale for me, in favor of making dangerous drugs illegal, is that it takes a strong society, with a strong moral fiber, that would produce citizens capable of making those kinds of choices.

America is no longer a country with that strong moral fiber.

[Dexter]

This is a topic that I can appreciate both sides of the argument. On one side, there is personal responsibility, and the liberty to make your own choices, even if they're bad choices. On the other hand, we do have responsibility to look out for the least among us, those who would make those bad choices. I think the thing that tips the scale for me, in favor of making dangerous drugs illegal, is that it takes a strong society, with a strong moral fiber, that would produce citizens capable of making those kinds of choices.

America is no longer a country with that strong moral fiber.

Turning drug addicts into criminals is not how we look out for the least among us. We're using violence against non-violence and locking people in cages who have never hurt anyone. Making drugs illegal does not help any of the problems people use as justifications for their illegal status.

[Relic]

Turning drug addicts into criminals is not how we look out for the least among us. Making drugs illegal does not help any of the problems people use as justifications for their illegal status.

And making dangerous drugs freely available does not look out for the least among us.

[Dexter]

And making dangerous drugs freely available does not look out for the least among us.

What is accomplished by making drugs illegal? In what way does it diminish the problem?

[Relic]

What is accomplished by making drugs illegal? In what way does it diminish the problem?

Seriously? I'm not going to engage if you take the obtuse tact with me. Making things illegal makes them more difficult to obtain, and even more hazardous to try. The hardcore users will still do it, there will still be some supply, but making them illegal impacts supply and demand. But you know that.

Using your logic, there should be no speed limit, because people will speed anyway.

[bkepley]

And making dangerous drugs freely available does not look out for the least among us.

The drugs won't be so dangerous if they are controlled in my opinion.  I wouldn't want to see such drugs sold as market products but I could see them given to addicts under controlled conditions.  The drugs would be safer to use and the user would know of the high quality.  Help can be provided to get off the drugs and etc.

[Dexter]

Seriously? I'm not going to engage if you take the obtuse tact with me. Making things illegal makes them more difficult to obtain, and even more hazardous to try. The hardcore users will still do it, there will still be some supply, but making them illegal impacts supply and demand. But you know that.

When I was a teenager it was easier to get drugs than it was to get alcohol. The reason for that is drug dealers didn't care how old I was, but finding a way around getting carded was a huge pain in the ass. Taxing and controlling drugs would make it harder for children to get them.

Using your logic, there should be no speed limit, because people will speed anyway.

Speeding and drug use are in no way similar. One puts other people in danger and the other puts only the user in danger. Yes, some people will overdo it and do stupid things while on drugs, but that's going to happen either way. Keeping drugs illegal won't prevent some strung out drug addict from getting into a traffic accident.

[Relic]

The drugs won't be so dangerous if they are controlled in my opinion.  I wouldn't want to see such drugs sold as market products but I could see them given to addicts under controlled conditions.  The drugs would be safer to use and the user would know of the high quality.  Help can be provided to get off the drugs and etc.

There are no conditions where meth or heroin are safe. Yes, making them available to addicts would help. It's not clear to me that making them available to addicts and non addicts alike is a good idea. Perhaps a refined approach to the illegality of such drugs? Punish, not destroy, and actually attempt to rehabilitate. After someone spends enough time in the cycle, label them an addict, and just let them do what they will?

Clearly, I don't spend hours thinking about this, nor do I have what I consider a good solution.

[Dexter]

Yes, making them available to addicts would help. It's not clear to me that making them available to addicts and non addicts alike is a good idea.

They are already available. I could have heroin in 3 hours if I wanted it.

[truth_seeker]

We just started an experiment with legalization of marijuana. Don't you think it might be wise to see how that goes, before expanding it?

Meth does permanent irreversible brain damage in a remarkably short time.

I object for now, to "legalizing" meth, heroin, opiate pain meds, etc.

I oppose long prison sentences for possession and usage. I favor treatment.

But for dealers in drugs, I favor prison.

[Relic]

When I was a teenager it was easier to get drugs than it was to get alcohol. The reason for that is drug addicts didn't care how old I was, but finding a way around getting carded was a huge pain in the ass. Taxing and controlling drugs would make it harder for children to get them.

BS. As a teen, I could get alcohol, and it was preferred by most of us. Why? Because if we were caught with it, it was a light slap, a wink and a nod.
Drugs were available, particularly weed, but it was expensive, and much more dangerous in terms of being caught.

Speeding and drug use are in no way similar. One puts other people in danger and the other puts only the user in danger. Yes, some people will overdo it and do stupid things while on drugs, but that's going to happen either way. Keeping drugs illegal won't prevent some strung out drug addict from getting into a traffic accident.

Really, you acknowledge that the dangers presented by speeders and those who overdo drugs are the same, but not? Someone wacked out on a narcotic is likely to do all manner of things that will endanger the public. Why is speeding illegal? I mean, most people know driving 75 in a 35 is a bad idea and don't do it, why make those laws and impact those poor speeders? They just have a need for speed, and don't want to hurt anyone. If you make it legal to speed, it won't change things, right? Speeders are going to speed.

[Dexter]

We just started an experiment with legalization of marijuana. Don't you think it might be wise to see how that goes, before expanding it?

Meth does permanent irreversible brain damage in a remarkably short time.

I object for now, to "legalizing" meth, heroin, opiate pain meds, etc.

I oppose long prison sentences for possession and usage. I favor treatment.

But for dealers in drugs, I favor prison.

Your position is reasonable. Assuming legalization of marijuana goes well would you be open to experimenting with the legalization/decriminalization of other drugs as well?

[Relic]

They are already available. I could have heroine in 3 hours if I wanted it.

Who is she? (Heroine is a person, heroin is a drug).

And I couldn't. I have no clue how to get heroin. But, if it were legal, I could walk down to the store and buy what I wanted.

[Dexter]

BS. As a teen, I could get alcohol, and it was preferred by most of us. Why? Because if we were caught with it, it was a light slap, a wink and a nod.
Drugs were available, particularly weed, but it was expensive, and much more dangerous in terms of being caught.

We have obviously had different experiences with this. I disagree with you. I believe controlling drugs will make the situation better.

Really, you acknowledge that the dangers presented by speeders and those who overdo drugs are the same, but not? Someone wacked out on a narcotic is likely to do all manner of things that will endanger the public. Why is speeding illegal? I mean, most people know driving 75 in a 35 is a bad idea and don't do it, why make those laws and impact those poor speeders? They just have a need for speed, and don't want to hurt anyone. If you make it legal to speed, it won't change things, right? Speeders are going to speed.

It's different because using drugs doesn't automatically mean you're going to go out and do something stupid. When you speed you're always putting other people in danger. The risk of intoxicated people being on the road will be present regardless of drugs being illegal or not.

[Dexter]

I have no clue how to get heroin. But, if it were legal, I could walk down to the store and buy what I wanted.

Yeah, a fully functioning adult could make the decision to use drugs without interacting with potentially dangerous drug dealers and without helping the black market. Your lack of easy access doesn't change the fact that dangerous drugs are already available to anybody that wants them.

[Relic]

Yeah, a fully functioning adult could make the decision to use drugs without interacting with potentially dangerous drug dealers and without helping the black market. Your lack of easy access doesn't change the fact that dangerous drugs are already available to anybody that wants them.

You assume that someone who is curious would get the drug, no matter what. Making something legal implies condoning it. So, if someone were looking for a buzz, went in a store, and found the heroin/meth section, hey, why not? It's legal, right?

Do you lock your car? Most fully functioning adults do. Why? If a criminal wants your car, or what's in it, you're not stopping them with that stupid lock. But, it stops the casual criminal.

[Dexter]

You assume that someone who is curious would get the drug, no matter what. Making something legal implies condoning it. So, if someone were looking for a buzz, went in a store, and found the heroin/meth section, hey, why not? It's legal, right?

Do you lock your car? Most fully functioning adults do. Why? If a criminal wants your car, or what's in it, you're not stopping them with that stupid lock. But, it stops the casual criminal.

I don't know about you but my decision to not use heroin has nothing to do with the fact that it is illegal. The number of people that smoke cigarettes in the United States has gone down significantly because of efforts to educate people about how dangerous they are. We should do the same thing with legal heroin/meth/whatever.

[Relic]

I don't know about you but my decision to not use heroin has nothing to do with the fact that it is illegal. The number of people that smoke cigarettes in the United States has gone down significantly because of efforts to educate people about how dangerous they are. We should do the same thing with legal heroin/meth/whatever.

Ok, so you're not a potential user. Do you deny that there are potential curious users that would be dissuaded by illegality?

I do advocate a softer approach to punishment, and more effective rehabilitation, if you read my posts.

Oh, and tobacco isn't your best choice to support your approach. Cigarette use is all but illegal. Your healthcare costs go up, you can't use them in most public places. The cost is astronomical. It almost seems there is more social scorn for tobacco users than for drug users.

[Dexter]

Ok, so you're not a potential user. Do you deny that there are potential curious users that would be dissuaded by illegality?

I don't deny that possibility, but I also don't think legalization will lead to a drug pandemic.

I do advocate a softer approach to punishment, and more effective rehabilitation, if you read my posts.

You're far from completely unreasonable in my opinion.

Oh, and tobacco isn't your best choice to support your approach. Cigarette use is all but illegal. Your healthcare costs go up, you can't use them in most public places. The cost is astronomical. It almost seems there is more social scorn for tobacco users than for drug users.

Secondhand smoke kills 600,000 people per year worldwide. It's very dangerous and not just to the user. I believe the social scorn is completely justified. I think heroin should be all but illegal in the same way cigarettes are all but illegal.

[Fishrrman]

Dexter, you've made your position regarding illicit drug usage clear in this thread.

And that reveals other things about yourself to us, as well.

[Dexter]

Dexter, you've made your position regarding illicit drug usage clear in this thread.

And that reveals other things about yourself to us, as well.

Oh? Like what?