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Author Topic: About those child opera singers: here's the deal  (Read 4595 times)

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Offline Machiavelli

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About those child opera singers: here's the deal
« on: August 12, 2015, 08:22:28 pm »
Dr. Glenn Winters
Operation Opera
January 2, 2012

Quote
I'm going to let all you music-lovers in on a little secret:  we professional musicians don't have much use for the phenomenon of the Child Prodigy.  Six year old violinists playing Mendelssohn; ten year old pianists playing Rachmaninov; and especially *shudder* twelve year old girls belting out operatic arias... or country music... or whatever... on national television?  Yeah, it's impressive.  Sort of.  You can keep 'em; I have no interest, especially when it comes to the miniature singers.
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Offline jmyrlefuller

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Re: About those child opera singers: here's the deal
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2015, 08:48:36 pm »
I'll say this much, as a former child singer (who still sings fairly prominently): the second half of that article is spot on.

The first half comes off as kind of smarmy and elitist, to be honest.
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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: About those child opera singers: here's the deal
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2015, 08:58:22 pm »
I absolutely agree with this guy.

Children mimic.

You can't write a song about your broken heart if you heart's never been broken.

You sure as Hell can't sing about it either.


Children dancing hits positions, but their transitions in between those positions are meaningless. True dance happens between the choreographed moves.


To properly play Mozart, you have to understand Mozart, the man, and you have to feel the feelings he poured into those notes, and you have to relate to them.

The madness must be there.


Mozart's brilliant madness must be there.

No kid can do that.
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Offline EC

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Re: About those child opera singers: here's the deal
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2015, 09:37:14 pm »
Quote from: Luis Gonzalez on August 12, 2015, 08:58:22 pm
To properly play Mozart, you have to understand Mozart, the man, and you have to feel the feelings he poured into those notes, and you have to relate to them.

The madness must be there.

Mozart's brilliant madness must be there.

No kid can do that.

I dunno. Mozart did it quite well. For a kid.  :tongue2:
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Offline musiclady

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Re: About those child opera singers: here's the deal
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2015, 09:40:25 pm »
Excellent article with which I completely concur.

There is absolutely no good that can come of a child's 'studying' voice, and even less than none from competing to be a 'star'  whether it be in opera, broadway, or any form of pop.

In vocal pedagogy, we refer to the "Annie syndrome"....... the death of the vocal cords of many, talented young girls who pushed too hard too soon.

It is bad, bad, bad in every respect to do this to a child.

(And I really like the author's emphasis on letting a child be a child.  NO area: sports, music, or academics, seems to do that any more.  For me, it's a tragedy).
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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: About those child opera singers: here's the deal
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2015, 09:40:39 pm »
Quote from: EC on August 12, 2015, 09:37:14 pm
I dunno. Mozart did it quite well. For a kid.  :tongue2:

Yes, but he was crazy.
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Offline musiclady

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Re: About those child opera singers: here's the deal
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2015, 09:41:56 pm »
Quote from: EC on August 12, 2015, 09:37:14 pm
I dunno. Mozart did it quite well. For a kid.  :tongue2:

And suffered great personal loss (including that of his health) because of it.

(Not that you didn't already know that.  ^-^ )

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Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline Paladin

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Re: About those child opera singers: here's the deal
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2015, 09:50:57 pm »
If memory serves me, Chopin was also considered a child prodigy and he had some success tickling those ivories.
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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: About those child opera singers: here's the deal
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2015, 09:52:48 pm »
Quote from: musiclady on August 12, 2015, 09:40:25 pm
Excellent article with which I completely concur.

There is absolutely no good that can come of a child's 'studying' voice, and even less than none from competing to be a 'star'  whether it be in opera, broadway, or any form of pop.

In vocal pedagogy, we refer to the "Annie syndrome"....... the death of the vocal cords of many, talented young girls who pushed too hard too soon.

It is bad, bad, bad in every respect to do this to a child.

(And I really like the author's emphasis on letting a child be a child.  NO area: sports, music, or academics, seems to do that any more.  For me, it's a tragedy).

Is it a tragedy in the Wagnerian sense or more in that almost atonal style Strauss did later?
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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: About those child opera singers: here's the deal
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2015, 09:53:46 pm »
Quote from: Paladin on August 12, 2015, 09:50:57 pm
If memory serves me, Chopin was also considered a child prodigy and he had some success tickling those ivories.

Yes, and 99.999% of all cows are born with one head.
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Offline Paladin

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Re: About those child opera singers: here's the deal
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2015, 10:00:16 pm »
Quote
Yes, and 99.999% of all cows are born with one head.

Aw, c'mon, Luis, I'm sure if you try harder you can offer something even more silly and irrelevant than that.
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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: About those child opera singers: here's the deal
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2015, 10:23:13 pm »
Quote from: Paladin on August 12, 2015, 10:00:16 pm
Aw, c'mon, Luis, I'm sure if you try harder you can offer something even more silly and irrelevant than that.

If I say that cows have one head, does your producing a picture (or even two!) of a two-headed cow change the fact that cows have one head?
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Offline Paladin

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Re: About those child opera singers: here's the deal
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2015, 10:54:38 pm »
Awesome, dude, I knew you could do it.

Quote
If I say that cows have one head, does your producing a picture (or even two!) of a two-headed cow change the fact that cows have one head?
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Offline musiclady

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Re: About those child opera singers: here's the deal
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2015, 11:04:17 pm »
Quote from: Luis Gonzalez on August 12, 2015, 09:52:48 pm
Is it a tragedy in the Wagnerian sense or more in that almost atonal style Strauss did later?

When you consider that Wagner was an Aryan racist who wrote operas praising incest if it kept the blood line going, I'd say it's more like the atonal stuff.   :smokin:
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Character still matters.  It always matters.

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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: About those child opera singers: here's the deal
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2015, 11:29:18 pm »
Quote from: musiclady on August 12, 2015, 11:04:17 pm
When you consider that Wagner was an Aryan racist who wrote operas praising incest if it kept the blood line going, I'd say it's more like the atonal stuff.   :smokin:

Ah!

Elektra!
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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: About those child opera singers: here's the deal
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2015, 11:30:24 pm »
Quote from: Paladin on August 12, 2015, 10:54:38 pm
Awesome, dude, I knew you could do it.

To wit.

The fact that Mozart and Chopin exist does not mean that cows don't have one head.
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Offline andy58-in-nh

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Re: About those child opera singers: here's the deal
« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2015, 11:56:46 pm »
Quote from: Luis Gonzalez on August 12, 2015, 08:58:22 pm
I absolutely agree with this guy.

Children mimic.

You can't write a song about your broken heart if you heart's never been broken.

You sure as Hell can't sing about it either.

Well said. Luciano Pavarotti and Mitsuko Uchida, in your attachments prove the point.

True musicianship extends far beyond mere technical prowess, embracing not only the whole of human experience, but something more timeless and universal. The spark of the divine illuminates all souls: crazy, or not.
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Offline musiclady

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Re: About those child opera singers: here's the deal
« Reply #17 on: August 13, 2015, 02:11:10 am »
Quote from: Luis Gonzalez on August 12, 2015, 11:29:18 pm
Ah!

Elektra!

Oh, yeah..................... my Dad used to drive one of those.............   :dx1:
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Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: About those child opera singers: here's the deal
« Reply #18 on: August 13, 2015, 03:32:44 am »
Quote from: musiclady on August 13, 2015, 02:11:10 am
Oh, yeah..................... my Dad used to drive one of those.............   :dx1:

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Offline musiclady

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Re: About those child opera singers: here's the deal
« Reply #19 on: August 13, 2015, 03:16:12 pm »
Quote from: Luis Gonzalez on August 13, 2015, 03:32:44 am

Now that's what I call dramatic.  (Imagine a 12 year old girl singing that role!)   

Not a great fan of Expressionism.  When it comes to Strauss, I prefer his works in the late Romantic style like Der Rosenkavalier, or Till Eulenspiegel.  I'm a romantic in many, many ways.....   ***blushing***



(btw, I sure hope you know I was kidding about my Dad's Buick!) 
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Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

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Re: About those child opera singers: here's the deal
« Reply #20 on: August 13, 2015, 06:29:27 pm »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Vjss1nbJ2U

No child could sing this either.    :laugh:
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Re: About those child opera singers: here's the deal
« Reply #21 on: August 13, 2015, 06:32:41 pm »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QfjDnWndwc

OMG....I take it back!!!    :laugh:
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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: About those child opera singers: here's the deal
« Reply #22 on: August 13, 2015, 06:51:26 pm »
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Re: About those child opera singers: here's the deal
« Reply #23 on: August 13, 2015, 07:10:02 pm »
Quote from: Luis Gonzalez on August 13, 2015, 06:51:26 pm
Not MLB material.


LOL!  Love you, man!

You're right, probably.  There's certainly a difference between being able to reach all the notes and 'OWNING' the performance.

The garage band I played in as a youth had a lead singer that weighed 150 lbs soaking wet.  If you closed your eyes he sounded every bit like Mick Jagger...right down to the grunts and ahs.

But watching him perform...a lot was lost.   Like you said, nobody was going to believe he got his heart broken by "Angie".   :beer:
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"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

"Hello Darkness, my old Friend...stood up too fast once again! Paul Simon 2024.

Offline Machiavelli

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Re: About those child opera singers: here's the deal
« Reply #24 on: August 13, 2015, 08:26:58 pm »
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