The New Battle Lines: Elitists Vs. Us

[Luis Gonzalez]

You can have a cosmopolitan place without having to let people in illegally - in fact it works better when we know who is crossing our borders.  It's the tired old word games - saying that people who are against illegal migration are against immigrants.  What an arrogant attitude some people have.

You're responding to a point that wasn't being directly discussed.

The discussion was about the Roman Empire as Laz applied the example in his piece, and the issue has been resolved. HOWEVER, the fact that a nation is trying to elevate its citizens out of the lower rungs of the economic ladder does not eliminate those lower rungs, or the market's needs for people to fill them. Those lower rungs have ALWAYS been occupied by immigrants.

The problem is that a segment of our population thinks that we need to stop or seriously curtail all immigration, so increasing the number of legal immigrants entering the country is a candidacy killer for any politician. It's far easier to let them come in illegally, and use that subject as political ammunition.

[DCPatriot]

You're responding to a point that wasn't being directly discussed.

The discussion was about the Roman Empire as Laz applied the example in his piece.

The issue has been resolved. HOWEVER, the fact that a nation is trying to elevate its citizens out of the lower rungs of the economic ladder does not eliminate those lower rungs, and those lower rungs have ALWAYS been occupied by immigrants. The problem is that a segment of our population thinks that we need to stop or seriously curtail all immigration, so increasing the number of legal immigrants entering the country is a candidacy killer for any politician.

I wonder who'd be screaming if, for the past 10 years, only Nordic Europeans were allowed into our country at the same rate as Hispanics, for example.

Also, would said Nordic people do the jobs Americans 'refuse to do'?   

[Luis Gonzalez]

I wonder who'd be screaming if, for the past 10 years, only Nordic Europeans were allowed into our country at the same rate as Hispanics, for example.

Also, would said Nordic people do the jobs Americans 'refuse to do'?

Never seen any Nordic Europeans picking oranges in Florida.

Something about the sun and their skin.

[GourmetDan]

Also, would said Nordic people do the jobs Americans 'refuse to do'?

It's not that Americans 'refuse to do certain jobs'.

It's that Americans 'refuse to do certain jobs for wages that Mexicans will accept'.

Big difference...

[DCPatriot]

Never seen any Nordic Europeans picking oranges in Florida.

Something about the sun and their skin.

Good point, Luis.

But I'm sure they make beds and lay carpet and concrete.   

[bkepley]

It's not that Americans 'refuse to do certain jobs'.

It's that Americans 'refuse to do certain jobs for wages that Mexicans will accept'.

Big difference...

I think this is mostly exaggerated.  I know the farmers want Mexicans because the Mexicans are so good at what they do.  Go ask 'em.  I also know an illegal who cleans houses and makes a fairly good living at it..owns a house and a car.  There are not many legals in competition with her.

[DCPatriot]

It's not that Americans 'refuse to do certain jobs'.

It's that Americans 'refuse to do certain jobs for wages that Mexicans will accept'.

Big difference...

You're probably right, Dan.

But my main point was...would the race hustlers have screamed bloody murder is only Caucasoid immigrants were favored during said time?

[DCPatriot]

I think this is mostly exaggerated.  I know the farmers want Mexicans because the Mexicans are so good at what they do.  Go ask 'em.  I also know an illegal who cleans houses and makes a fairly good living at it..owns a house and a car.  There are not many legals in competition with her.

I, too, have known dozens of successful 'illegals' who have thriving businesses and homes...one owns several properties.

They work hard and long hours, and still attend Church on Sunday.   Their children are all-county sports star athletes who speak without a hint of an accent.  Yet, can speak both languages fluently.

It was the love and respect for them while I was an active Realtor that made me a pariah on TOS.

I warned them for years that "today" was coming.  Fell on deaf ears.

[GourmetDan]

I think this is mostly exaggerated.  I know the farmers want Mexicans because the Mexicans are so good at what they do.  Go ask 'em.  I also know an illegal who cleans houses and makes a fairly good living at it..owns a house and a car.  There are not many legals in competition with her.

I know that it is not exaggerated.

I live in an area where livestock barns must be cleaned.  That was done by a company employing white citizens.  Then the illegals moved in and started doing the job cheaper.  Guess who has all of the business now?

Duplicate this thousands of times across our country...

[Bigun]

I know that it is not exaggerated.

I live in an area where livestock barns must be cleaned.  That was done by a company employing white citizens.  Then the illegals moved in and started doing the job cheaper.  Guess who has all of the business now?

Duplicate this thousands of times across our country...

And of course you are aware that there is another huge aspect to this. Then one HAD to work in order to feed and clothe himself and his family. Now all you need do is get on some kind of government assistance and Uncle sugar takes care of all that for you!

[GourmetDan]

And of course you are aware that there is another huge aspect to this. Then one HAD to work in order to feed and clothe himself and his family. Now all you need do is get on some kind of government assistance and Uncle sugar takes care of all that for you!

Oh this happened in just the past couple of years...

[MACVSOG68]

I think this is mostly exaggerated.  I know the farmers want Mexicans because the Mexicans are so good at what they do.  Go ask 'em.  I also know an illegal who cleans houses and makes a fairly good living at it..owns a house and a car.  There are not many legals in competition with her.

It is.  After Hurricane Katrina, the residents of New Orleans took the credit cards and left, laughing at $16.50 an hour to help rebuild their homes.  The illegals took $10 an hour and were happy to get the work, and they had to take less because of the difficulty of getting work, not because they were just cheap labor.

[EdinVA]

It's not that Americans 'refuse to do certain jobs'.

It's that Americans 'refuse to do certain jobs for wages that Mexicans will accept'.

Big difference...

Don't know why people can't wrap their noodle around this.
It is not just Mexicans tho, it is all of the immigrants, legal or otherwise.
Our lives, economy, real estate values, retirement funds, require "inflation" so the things we do and buy are worth more tomorrow than when we purchased them.
Our political parties in collusion with corporate American has spent the last 20 years deflating salaries by intentionally flooding the American labor market with cheap labor from overseas.  The H1b/illegal can live on less as they are not buying houses as noted in the latest homeowner report showing the lowest home ownership rate since the '60s.  I personally have seen them living 5 to a 1 bedroom apartment in sleeping bags and sending their money home.  An American cannot afford to work for the same low wages as their expenses are too high and they could not afford the payments on their house they purchased in good faith.  I know, I heard all the accusations about buying too much house also, but it is not true in most cases.  So we had a flood of repo'd homes and that is finally getting cleared up but RE values are still not climbing as they should and I believe there will be another RE downturn to bring home prices in line with salaries.

If you are going to lose anyway, why not get the easy money because the feds are just going to flush it down some hole anyway.

[Bigun]

It is.  After Hurricane Katrina, the residents of New Orleans took the credit cards and left, laughing at $16.50 an hour to help rebuild their homes.  The illegals took $10 an hour and were happy to get the work, and they had to take less because of the difficulty of getting work, not because they were just cheap labor.

If I had my way illegals would not have been able to get work at all!

[bkepley]

Don't know why people can't wrap their noodle around this.
It is not just Mexicans tho, it is all of the immigrants, legal or otherwise.
Our lives, economy, real estate values, retirement funds, require "inflation" so the things we do and buy are worth more tomorrow than when we purchased them.
Our political parties in collusion with corporate American has spent the last 20 years deflating salaries by intentionally flooding the American labor market with cheap labor from overseas.  The H1b/illegal can live on less as they are not buying houses as noted in the latest homeowner report showing the lowest home ownership rate since the '60s.  I personally have seen them living 5 to a 1 bedroom apartment in sleeping bags and sending their money home.  An American cannot afford to work for the same low wages as their expenses are too high and they could not afford the payments on their house they purchased in good faith.  I know, I heard all the accusations about buying too much house also, but it is not true in most cases.  So we had a flood of repo'd homes and that is finally getting cleared up but RE values are still not climbing as they should and I believe there will be another RE downturn to bring home prices in line with salaries.

If you are going to lose anyway, why not get the easy money because the feds are just going to flush it down some hole anyway.

For God's sake it's more complicated than that.  I can't believe how uneducated some Americans are about the whole history of our country.

[MACVSOG68]

If I had my way illegals would not have been able to get work at all!

I've no doubt.

[Bigun]

I've no doubt.

Pesky little thing called the law!

[MACVSOG68]

Pesky little thing called the law!

Yeah, it's really worked well over the past ten years.

[Bigun]

Yeah, it's really worked well over the past ten years.

NO! Ir hasn't! But that is not the fault of the law! It is the fault of a citizenry that stands by and allows those charged with enforcing the law to get away with not doing that!
 

[bkepley]

NO! Ir hasn't! But that is not the fault of the law! It is the fault of a citizenry that stands by and allows those charged with enforcing the law to get away with not doing that!

Friggin hell Bigun..you are telling me that these folks have cost you a job?  I'll give you a job..come and cut our lot.

[truth_seeker]

My neighbor is a large regional painting contractor, and very conservative. He is against illegal immigration, but he admits they are the workers he can hire that actually show up to work reliably.

White boys will take a few days off after pay day, to tweak on meth etc.

[Bigun]

Friggin hell Bigun..you are telling me that these folks have cost you a job?  I'll give you a job..come and cut our lot.

 

You're a real barrel of laughs aren't you?

It isn't about ME! it's about the LAW you damned fool!

[bkepley]

My neighbor is a large regional painting contractor, and very conservative. He is against illegal immigration, but he admits they are the workers he can hire that actually show up to work reliably.

White boys will take a few days off after pay day, to tweak on meth etc.

Truth sux.

[Bigun]

My neighbor is a large regional painting contractor, and very conservative. He is against illegal immigration, but he admits they are the workers he can hire that actually show up to work reliably.

White boys will take a few days off after pay day, to tweak on meth etc.

Great story! Unfortunately it is totally irrelevant to the law regarding illegals!

[bkepley]

Great story! Unfortunately it is totally irrelevant to the law regarding illegals!

Just asking, what would you do if you were one of these people!