Author Topic: The Millions of Marginalized Americans...Frank Bruni  (Read 1495 times)

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The Millions of Marginalized Americans...Frank Bruni
« on: July 25, 2015, 10:50:03 pm »
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/26/opinion/sunday/frank-bruni-the-millions-of-marginalized-americans.html?ref=opinion

The Millions of Marginalized Americans

JULY 25, 2015


NOT long ago I had separate chats with two political insiders who offered to fill me in on Jeb Bush’s strategy, if he prevails in the primaries, for winning the general election.

In each instance I braced for a lengthy exegesis but got only one sentence: He picks John Kasich as his running mate.

That was the playbook.

It presumed that Bush would collect Florida’s electoral votes, having once governed the state. It presumed that Ohio could be delivered by Kasich, its current governor, who announced his own presidential bid on Tuesday.

And it presumed that tandem victories in Florida and Ohio would seal the deal, because so much of the rest of America was dependably Republican — or Democratic. Just a handful of states decide the country’s fate.

Shortly after my chats with those two insiders, a third described Hillary Clinton’s supposed plan for victory.

“Cuyahoga County,” this operative said.

continued
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Offline EdinVA

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Re: The Millions of Marginalized Americans...Frank Bruni
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2015, 11:36:16 pm »
Exactly why we need to get rid of the electoral college and just rely on popular vote.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: The Millions of Marginalized Americans...Frank Bruni
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2015, 02:08:16 am »
Exactly why we need to get rid of the electoral college and just rely on popular vote.

So you really don't want the GOP to ever win another election.

The Constitution established the electoral college for a reason:  to deny concentrations of citizens in particular areas to dominate national elections. It's bad enough the electoral college is weighted so heavily toward metropolitan areas as it is.

With your plan. Republicans would have little chance at the White House.  Don't be stupid.
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Offline PzLdr

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Re: The Millions of Marginalized Americans...Frank Bruni
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2015, 03:30:28 am »
Exactly why we need to get rid of the electoral college and just rely on popular vote.

Once you get rid of the electoral college, all the smaller states become invisible, and all the election results will swing on states like California, Illinois, New York [throw in Texas], you get the picture. And our final disintegration from Rome to Athens will be complete.
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Offline EdinVA

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Re: The Millions of Marginalized Americans...Frank Bruni
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2015, 10:56:13 am »
So you really don't want the GOP to ever win another election.

The Constitution established the electoral college for a reason:  to deny concentrations of citizens in particular areas to dominate national elections. It's bad enough the electoral college is weighted so heavily toward metropolitan areas as it is.

With your plan. Republicans would have little chance at the White House.  Don't be stupid.

My take on the original need for the electoral college was the time it took to get from a home state, cast and count ballots and get the votes back to Washington to be verified.  All was done on horseback and took several months so the electoral college was setup to shorten the time.

All a candidate needs to do is get the 9 top liberal states like ca, ny, pa, oh  and they win with the electoral college, they are all or nothing states.  If a candidate gets 51% of the popular vote, then the candidate get 100% of the electoral votes so the 49% gets dumped.  So for example California, registered voters about 17 million so if a candidate can get 8+ million they will get 55 electoral votes and the other 7 million california voters get ignored.  Compare that to just shy of 2 million registered voters in Kansas...

I think if you do a little math and think this thru you will see that the electoral colleges has outlived its usefulness.  I also think that voter participation would go up as peoples vote would actually matter.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2015, 10:57:01 am by EdinVA »

Oceander

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Re: The Millions of Marginalized Americans...Frank Bruni
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2015, 02:25:58 pm »
My take on the original need for the electoral college was the time it took to get from a home state, cast and count ballots and get the votes back to Washington to be verified.  All was done on horseback and took several months so the electoral college was setup to shorten the time.

All a candidate needs to do is get the 9 top liberal states like ca, ny, pa, oh  and they win with the electoral college, they are all or nothing states.  If a candidate gets 51% of the popular vote, then the candidate get 100% of the electoral votes so the 49% gets dumped.  So for example California, registered voters about 17 million so if a candidate can get 8+ million they will get 55 electoral votes and the other 7 million california voters get ignored.  Compare that to just shy of 2 million registered voters in Kansas...

I think if you do a little math and think this thru you will see that the electoral colleges has outlived its usefulness.  I also think that voter participation would go up as peoples vote would actually matter.


So the simple solution there is to have electoral votes allocated per the results of the popular vote in each state.  That still gives the small states and the rural areas some say in the election, a say that a pure popular election vote would not.

Offline EdinVA

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Re: The Millions of Marginalized Americans...Frank Bruni
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2015, 02:32:54 pm »

So the simple solution there is to have electoral votes allocated per the results of the popular vote in each state.  That still gives the small states and the rural areas some say in the election, a say that a pure popular election vote would not.

But most states are all or nothing.  So it you vote for someone other than the "winner", you then are forced to vote for the winner.
Since it is up to the states to determine all or nothing and the dems are controlling the big state legislatures, if you are not dem you don't get a vote.
So the only choice left is to do away with the electoral college all together.

Offline massadvj

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Re: The Millions of Marginalized Americans...Frank Bruni
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2015, 02:44:41 pm »
If someone wants to talk about "marginalized Americans" then the conversation should be about taxpayers, Christians, smokers, young males, conservatives and all the people who live in flyover country.

Offline xfreeper

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Re: The Millions of Marginalized Americans...Frank Bruni
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2015, 04:17:52 pm »
I'm white and english speaking. THE marginalized

Oceander

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Re: The Millions of Marginalized Americans...Frank Bruni
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2015, 01:28:41 am »
But most states are all or nothing.  So it you vote for someone other than the "winner", you then are forced to vote for the winner.
Since it is up to the states to determine all or nothing and the dems are controlling the big state legislatures, if you are not dem you don't get a vote.
So the only choice left is to do away with the electoral college all together.


States' rights.  It's the right of each state to say how their electoral votes will be cast; the fact that the people of any given state may have made the "wrong" choice is the essential cost of living in a democratic republic.

Online Fishrrman

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Re: The Millions of Marginalized Americans...Frank Bruni
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2015, 03:40:32 am »
Oceander wrote above:
[[ So the simple solution there is to have electoral votes allocated per the results of the popular vote in each state.  That still gives the small states and the rural areas some say in the election, a say that a pure popular election vote would not. ]]

Better solution:

Adapt the system that Maine and Nebraska use, where electoral vote victories are assigned per Congressional district. I believe the two "Senate" electors are assigned to whomever wins the popular vote in the state.

Of course, this must come through a Constitutional amendment, because you're NEVER going to get states like California, New York, Texas and Illinois, etc., to agree to it via their state legislatures.

But I believe enough states -might- agree to it via an Article V convention, so that the "weight" of the most populous states could be over-ridden.

It's worth a try.

But let's say this doesn't happen, that things pretty much stay the way they are now.

The Electoral College used to -help- the Republicans, but it won't continue to do so for very much longer, as the remaining battleground states get closer and closer to "tipping left". Eventually the current system will make it impossible for the Republicans to win.

The great prize is Texas. It will take some time, perhaps twenty more years, but eventually Texas will first turn purple, and then blue. A simple matter of demographics. The illegals may not vote, but all their children born here are automatic citizens, and most of them are eventually going to vote for the democrats.

And once the 'rats have Texas, it's all over for the Pubbies as far as the presidency is concerned.

Which makes it all the more important to get the "proportional-electoral" system set up as soon as possible...

Offline Paladin

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Re: The Millions of Marginalized Americans...Frank Bruni
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2015, 07:03:21 am »
With your plan. Republicans would have little chance at the White House.  Don't be stupid.

Was that last really necessary? Can we not disagree without being disagreeable?
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