Greece debt crisis: Athens offered 'temporary Grexit' if no deal - live updates

[Dexter]

http://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2015/jul/12/greek-debt-crisis-eu-leaders-meeting-cancelled-no-deal-live

Greece is being pushed to accept and implement even more austerity measures and reforms, or get a ‘time-out’ from the euro.

[truth_seeker]

Hopefully they do reach a settlement.

But if Greece won't budge, then be gone with them, as an example of economic reality.

[Fishrrman]

truth_seeker wrote above:
[[ Hopefully they do reach a settlement...]]

Fishrrman's credo:
Reality is what it is. It is not what we believe it to be.

The reality is that, "settlement" or no, Greece will not ever be able to pay back its debt.

Not only because they'll never have the money, but they'll never implement enough "reforms" whereby they might accumulate the money.

Ain't gonna happen.

Their choices:
1. Go broke now and renounce the small mountain of debt.
2. Go broke later and renounce a HUGE mountain of debt.

Which shall it be?

[truth_seeker]

truth_seeker wrote above:
[[ Hopefully they do reach a settlement...]]

Fishrrman's credo:
Reality is what it is. It is not what we believe it to be.

The reality is that, "settlement" or no, Greece will not ever be able to pay back its debt.

Not only because they'll never have the money, but they'll never implement enough "reforms" whereby they might accumulate the money.

Ain't gonna happen.

Their choices:
1. Go broke now and renounce the small mountain of debt.
2. Go broke later and renounce a HUGE mountain of debt.

Which shall it be?

I don't know the answer. I'm an idiot. I only lived in Europe and wrote a graduate thesis about the Eastern Germany failure, the West German success.

And guess what? Europe still exists, and there is still a Germany.

Therefore in my informed estimation, there will be a Europe in the Future, and there will be a Greece in the future.

Only a few years ago Iceland and Ireland had immense problems, yet they did turn the corner.

What do you think about the economic future of Ireland, Iceland?

[Oceander]

Hopefully they do reach a settlement.

But if Greece won't budge, then be gone with them, as an example of economic reality.

Very true.

[Oceander]

I don't know the answer. I'm an idiot. I only lived in Europe and wrote a graduate thesis about the Eastern Germany failure, the West German success.

And guess what? Europe still exists, and there is still a Germany.

Therefore in my informed estimation, there will be a Europe in the Future, and there will be a Greece in the future.

Only a few years ago Iceland and Ireland had immense problems, yet they did turn the corner.

What do you think about the economic future of Ireland, Iceland?

What was the Cook's Tour version of the thesis?

[truth_seeker]

What was the Cook's Tour version of the thesis?

West=western democratic republic plus capitalism (US style) versus East=Soviet satellite communism and centralized command economy.

The honest truth is I can't remember details, and it was written about 1974. At that time the West was clearly doing very well, but the East had a ways to go before things reached their bottom.

Work and study that I did on that project, cemented my belief in free markets, over centralized state owned command style economics.

Since then, unification introduced honest workdays to entitlement mentality Eastern Germans, for whom it was a shock.

BMW is an interesting study. They nearly failed in the early-mid 50s. Yet by the time of the US auto bailout, they looked at buying GM outright, but decided against it.