McConnell: Congress can't roll back gay marriage decision

[MACVSOG68]

Ya, don't pay any attention to what happened to the Romans for exactly the same thing...

The Romans eventually lost their empire after splitting it up and losing the West to the barbarian hordes.  I doubt it was due to homosexuals. 

[Bigun]

Good, now if we can only get the candidates to get off the issue and get on with solutions  to real problems.

That isn't going to happen because there is tremendous public pressure building for them to do just the opposite despite ALL those polls you continually cite!

[GourmetDan]

The Romans eventually lost their empire after splitting it up and losing the West to the barbarian hordes.  I doubt it was due to homosexuals.

Of course you doubt it.  That was predictable...

[Bigun]

The Romans eventually lost their empire after splitting it up and losing the West to the barbarian hordes.  I doubt it was due to homosexuals.

The Romans lost their empire because they abandoned the Republic and crowned a KING! The result won't be any different here even if we call the King a court!

"A system of government that makes the People subordinate to nine unelected lawyers does not deserve to be called a democracy.”

Justice Antonin Scalia

And the only part of that I disagree with is the use of the word democracy!

[MACVSOG68]

Like you and Once-Ler?

Hypocrite...

We were in agreement on the issue under discussion, not playing pack-dog. 

[GourmetDan]

We were in agreement on the issue under discussion, not playing pack-dog. 

As were Paladin and I, not playing pack-dog either. 

[Luis Gonzalez]

It doesn't! Just like it nowhere grants the power of judicial review to SCOTUS! Marriage is one of those things covered in the ninth and tenth amendments!

So then, once again, you then agree that the SCOTUS decision on Hobby Lobby was incorrect, since they lack the power of judicial review, and Hobby Lobby should pay for contraceptives.

Should Shelby County v. Holder be reversed and the full scope of the Voting Rights Act be re-instated?

Should University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center v. Nassar be reversed and the scope of the criteria that employees can sue for racial discrimination be expanded?

Should NLRB v. Noel Canning be reversed and Obama's appointees made via recess power while Congress was in session be confirmed?

Obama has the worst win/loss SCOTUS record of any President since Truman.

Now, once and for all, should all those rulings be reversed?

Yes or no?

[Luis Gonzalez]

That isn't going to happen because there is tremendous public pressure building for them to do just the opposite despite ALL those polls you continually cite!

Here's what you fail to understand.

The majority of the opposition to SSM is embedded in people 65 years and older.

The battle is lost.

[Mod1]

Please don't let this get out of hand.  You know who you are.

[musiclady]

I agree that there are numerous moral issues facing us a Nation, not the least of which is the continuing decline of marriage and the increase in divorce.  Add to that increasing use of drugs, more and more violent games, movies, music videos, increases in STDs, single parent homes all attacking the moral fiber of our Country, and I'm sorry, but two gays wanting to spend their lives with each other, while not something I can begin to understand or relate to, isn't all that high on my list of political goals for the next election.

I understand that homosexual marriage is no big deal to you, MAC, but as a reflection of the complete disintegration of the fabric of American values, it IS a big deal to a lot of us.

As far as relating it to your 'list of political goals,'  I'm not sure that your individual laissez faire opinion is what should be driving the debate.  I think, rather, that the moral destruction of America is something that needs to be part of the debate, and I, for one, am thankful that there are at least some of our Republican candidates who have the courage to go against the bullying of the left and talk about the subject like adults.

I think, at least somewhere deep down, you understand that leftist bullying is a problem in this country.

I just don't think you recognize that that's what they've done to get their way on this particular subject.

[MACVSOG68]

We have been over this many times before Mac and my opinions are at least as valid as yours.

I couldn't agree more.  You have a right to your own opinion, but as they say, not to your own facts

When it comes to the Constitution public opinion doesn't matter a whit until and unless the public decides to us their power and change it! I predict that will soon happen! What you consider to be elephants in the room others don't find nearly as compelling as a runaway court that assumes powers it is nowhere granted!

Well maybe Marshall can be impeached posthumously.  Until then I think we're stuck with SCOTUS and judicial review.

There is a reason why every person in government is required by the constitution to swear an oath to "preserve, protect, and defend, the constitution before they assume office after EVERY election!

Agreed. 

And I have done so MANY times before today! If article III of the Constitution had been modified in ANY way by the 14th amendment it would say so somewhere. Perhaps I missed that notation and you will point it out to me but the last time we talked about this YOU agreed that there was no such modification of Article III to be found.

Did you mean Article II?  If not, I'm missing the context.
 

Yes indeed I do! I happen to love this country and our constitution as the founders created it and would like to preserve at least a little bit of that for my posterity!

As do I, as I presume everyone else here does.

[Bigun]

Here's what you fail to understand.

The majority of the opposition to SSM is embedded in people 65 years and older.

The battle is lost.

So you say!

I happen to not believe that! Not even for a second!
 

[Luis Gonzalez]

I understand that homosexual marriage is no big deal to you, MAC, but as a reflection of the complete disintegration of the fabric of American values, it IS a big deal to a lot of us.

As far as relating it to your 'list of political goals,'  I'm not sure that your individual laissez faire opinion is what should be driving the debate.  I think, rather, that the moral destruction of America is something that needs to be part of the debate, and I, for one, am thankful that there are at least some of our Republican candidates who have the courage to go against the bullying of the left and talk about the subject like adults.

I think, at least somewhere deep down, you understand that leftist bullying is a problem in this country.

I just don't think you recognize that that's what they've done to get their way on this particular subject.

American values or religious values?

American values have as a cornerstone individual liberty where your ability to believe as you see fit is not constrained by others via force of government. So you can be a practicing Jew without Christians using their majority status to deny you that right, just as you have the right to believe in nothing at all, and live your life accordingly without that right being infringed upon by believers via force of government.

The people who just gained the right to marry don't believe as you do, but that fact does not take from them the right to live their lives as they believe they want to live their lives. You have that right and so do they.

[Bigun]

I couldn't agree more.  You have a right to your own opinion, but as they say, not to your own facts

Well maybe Marshall can be impeached posthumously.  Until then I think we're stuck with SCOTUS and judicial review.

Agreed. 

Did you mean Article II?  If not, I'm missing the context.
 

As do I, as I presume everyone else here does.

Yes! I meant article II and I apologize for my error.

[MACVSOG68]

Yes! I meant article II and I apologize for my error.

No problem.  Just wanted to be sure.  Yes, we disagree on a particular meaning in Article II, though I suspect we are getting a tad off topic.

[Bigun]

So then, once again, you then agree that the SCOTUS decision on Hobby Lobby was incorrect, since they lack the power of judicial review, and Hobby Lobby should pay for contraceptives.

Should Shelby County v. Holder be reversed and the full scope of the Voting Rights Act be re-instated?

Should University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center v. Nassar be reversed and the scope of the criteria that employees can sue for racial discrimination be expanded?

Should NLRB v. Noel Canning be reversed and Obama's appointees made via recess power while Congress was in session be confirmed?

Obama has the worst win/loss SCOTUS record of any President since Truman.

Now, once and for all, should all those rulings be reversed?

Yes or no?

NO Luis! I have asked you before not to attempt to put words in my mouth but you never-the-less continue to do that!

What I have said is that the Constitution nowhere grants the right of judicial review to SCOTUS and that is correct! It doesn't!  The power is one that the court under John Marshal assigned to itself.  That wasn't challenged at the time because the players on the field at the time all understood that SCOTUS has no power to enforce ANYTHING it says.  You should also know that the man who brought the suit to the court in that case NEVER got the commission Mr. Marshal and his court said he was entitled to.

[Luis Gonzalez]

So you say!

I happen to not believe that! Not even for a second!

Truth doesn't require your support.

[Bigun]

No problem.  Just wanted to be sure.  Yes, we disagree on a particular meaning in Article II, though I suspect we are getting a tad off topic.

Article III is where Luis should be reading.

[Bigun]

Truth doesn't require your support.

I suspect we will ALL find out just where the truth lies very soon Luis!

[Luis Gonzalez]

NO Luis! I have asked you before not to attempt to put words in my mouth but you never-the-less continue to do that!

What I have said is that the Constitution nowhere grants the right of judicial review to SCOTUS and that is correct! It doesn't!  The power is one that the court under John Marshal assigned to itself.  That wasn't challenged at the time because the players on the field at the time all understood that SCOTUS has no power to enforce ANYTHING it says.  You should also know that the man who brought the suit to the court in that case NEVER got the commission Mr. Marshal and his court said he was entitled to.

Quite the intellectually dishonest bit of logic.

Judicial review is OK so long as the rulings fall in line with your political agenda.

[MACVSOG68]

That isn't going to happen because there is tremendous public pressure building for them to do just the opposite despite ALL those polls you continually cite!

Do you have any evidence for all that public pressure?

[Bigun]

Do you have any evidence for all that public pressure?

Beyond what I see and hear with my own eyes and ears no! But I trust those things much more than polls conducted by those who are pushing an agenda HARD!

[musiclady]

American values or religious values?

American values have as a cornerstone individual liberty where your ability to believe as you see fit is not constrained by others via force of government. So you can be a practicing Jew without Christians using their majority status to deny you that right, just as you have the right to believe in nothing at all, and live your life accordingly without that right being infringed upon by believers via force of government.

The people who just gained the right to marry don't believe as you do, but that fact does not take from them the right to live their lives as they believe they want to live their lives. You have that right and so do they.

Moral values ARE American values.

There is no true liberty without a moral construct, and if you carry libertarianism to its logical conclusion, you have anarchy.

Take away the structure, and you're left with chaos.

[Bigun]

Quite the intellectually dishonest bit of logic.

Judicial review is OK so long as the rulings fall in line with your political agenda.

NO it isn't! But I, like everyone else alive today am forced to live with it regardless!

[Bigun]

Moral values ARE American values.

There is no true liberty without a moral construct, and if you carry libertarianism to its logical conclusion, you have anarchy.

Take away the structure, and you're left with chaos.

EXACTLY right!

There has been a great deal written on THAT subject as well for anyone who wishes to find and read it!