Author Topic: BREAKING>>>>SCOTUS upholds federal Obamacare exchange subsidies in 6-3 vote  (Read 8302 times)

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Offline MACVSOG68

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I had a notion that things weren't going to go our way on this.

Here's some perspective.

http://www.acslaw.org/acsblog/will-text-or-context-reign-supreme-in-king-v-burwell

Interesting read.  Given the first clause in the 2d Amendment, do you see a future Court looking to "context vs text" in a challenge to the 2d?  It's a scary thought but the Court is quickly moving through massive social change, and I doubt no one could predict what earlier might have been very predictable.
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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Interesting read.  Given the first clause in the 2d Amendment, do you see a future Court looking to "context vs text" in a challenge to the 2d?  It's a scary thought but the Court is quickly moving through massive social change, and I doubt no one could predict what earlier might have been very predictable.

I don't see challenges to Amendments being treated the same as challenges to (relatively) newly enacted laws. 
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, i have others." - Groucho Marx

Offline Bigun

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I do agree with you Bigun.  But isn't that what the Court did in the Citizens' United decision?  And many on here and other conservative forums want the Court to find that the 14th Amendment doesn't really mean the plain English written in Section I.  Many say the court should go back and look at the intent of Congress not necessarily the language that resulted.

NO! It is NOT what the court did in Citizens United and the 14th amendment does not say anything about the Natural Born Citizenship required of the president in our constitution. It simply says that people born in this country are CITIZENS at birth. Those two things are quite different!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline alicewonders

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I think many of us here are in the same place.  Today, I feel like the war is lost.  I honestly do not see it turning around in the time I have left here on this earth.  This massive experiment is ending in grandiose failure, and most of us have been around to witness the best of times and now are seeing the worst of times coming to fruition.  Very interesting to watch from an historical perspective - but sad to actually experience. 

I'm going to go Galt too.  I've been a political fighter for almost 40 years for the Republican party, I'm very disappointed in where we are at right now.....so much potential wasted....

I'd really be pissed if I had been a Democrat too - they have turned into something unrecognizable......but just quicker than the Republicans.  We're going to see the GOP go the same road as the Dems now.  They've turned on that road and there's no turning back now.  Cowards.

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Offline Bigun

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I think many of us here are in the same place.  Today, I feel like the war is lost.  I honestly do not see it turning around in the time I have left here on this earth.  This massive experiment is ending in grandiose failure, and most of us have been around to witness the best of times and now are seeing the worst of times coming to fruition.  Very interesting to watch from an historical perspective - but sad to actually experience. 

I'm going to go Galt too.  I've been a political fighter for almost 40 years for the Republican party, I'm very disappointed in where we are at right now.....so much potential wasted....

I'd really be pissed if I had been a Democrat too - they have turned into something unrecognizable......but just quicker than the Republicans.  We're going to see the GOP go the same road as the Dems now.  They've turned on that road and there's no turning back now.  Cowards.

SCOTUS is now KING and this once great Republic is DEAD!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline MACVSOG68

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I don't see challenges to Amendments being treated the same as challenges to (relatively) newly enacted laws.

No, but it's certainly not unheard of.
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Offline MACVSOG68

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NO! It is NOT what the court did in Citizens United and the 14th amendment does not say anything about the Natural Born Citizenship required of the president in our constitution. It simply says that people born in this country are CITIZENS at birth. Those two things are quite different!

Of course it's what the Court did in Citizens United.  In looking into the clause abridging the freedom of speech, Congress had to take it from persons to associations and then to corporations, and further had to read into the Constitution that money was itself a form of speech.  I didn't have a problem with it, but surely it was a case of the SCOTUS going a long distance to look at context rather than simply text.

As for the 14th Amendment, I wasn't talking about the natural born citizen issue, but rather the issue many want to see head to the courts, which is whether or not the child born here of an illegal alien meets the requirements of the 14th Amendment for citizenship.  Many people on the right want the Court to look at context and intent rather than text.
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Offline alicewonders

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SCOTUS is now KING and this once great Republic is DEAD!

 8888crybaby

I guess now SCOTUS will be determining the "intention" of the founding fathers in writing our Constitution, in terms of modernizing it at a breakneck speed.  It IS the end of the Republic!  The most disheartening thing is that there really is no place to run to, to escape it.  The Globalists have succeeded in highjacking the entire world and we can only watch the future unfold in terrifying real time.  Big changes coming quickly now! 

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SCOTUS is now KING and this once great Republic is DEAD!

I am afraid I have to agree. But it is based on the path Obama has blazed before them. Obama has taught all politicians, in a very real way, that 'Law' is meaningless without consequences. Obama is well known for his desire to be 'the King of America' and in full truth his real desire seems to be to be 'the King of the entire Earth'. And he has acted very many times in an unlawful way to bring these desires to fruition.

SCOTUS are not longer behaving as a traditional court. Rather they are behaving as just another 'political' branch of government, and they have noted very well that Obama has faced no consequences whatsoever for his blatant and flagrant illegal behavior, as have all the politicians in D.C.

SCOTUS is now behaving as a surrogate King George, as there is obviously no 'representation' in anything they do.

Therefore, we have a run away President with megalomania and dreams of grandeur, compounded by a Court system which supports him and no longer interprets what the law says, but rather interprets (rewrites) law to reflect their own personal interpretation of the 'good intentions' of the law meant to say. And in each case, their 'opinions' supersede the law as it is written and the will of the people to support the administration and their own personal biases.

This is a radical change in America. And Obama has built it and ushered it in. This is tyranny. Whether it is done by a President or by the court does not change what it is. It is a regression back to rule by fiat and rule by dictate, the law and the people be damned.

With the feckless and, well, "scared and timid" Congress we have with Boehner, combined with his increasingly pugnacious attitude toward any members who still value the rule of law and the will of the people, I do not think this trend can be reversed. I do not think the elite politicians of both parties will ever allow this new governmental order in America to be challenged or reversed.

Obama has, in very many ways, achieved his goal of fundamentally transforming America. I did not take his words very seriously when he first said this, but I did not know at the time that his "transformation" would have the full support of SCOTUS, and Congress (both parties), and the bulk of the entire government in full. That was a surprise to me. I did not know how deeply the avarice, corruption, and greed, had grown throughout all of government.

So, yes, I think we are done as a free nation of the people. We are now just another nation 'ruled', not governed, by an elite oligarch of super multimillionaires/multibilliionaires just like the rest of the world.

The great American dream has come to an end. Our children will never even know or understand what America once was. History will be changed and rewritten; books will be burned. And everything we, we on this forum, know about America will be erased and forgotten. Future generations will grow up to think that it was always like this, and that there is no other way to live, like the good little mind-addled robots they will be trained to be.

To end on a happy note, there is always hope, however dim it may be. And I am grateful to have grown up and prospered in what real America once was. At least that.

Also I know, that for the older Liberals alive today, there will inevitably be an 'Oh Shit!' moment, when they realize what they have unleashed, just like there was in Russia, just like there was in Cuba, just like there was in Germany. Just like there always is when Liberals usher in tyranny. At first they always love it, and then the reality hits.

For Liberals the rise of fascism always leads to:
'And there arose a new King in Egypt, who did not know Joseph' -- Exodus 1:8

But they never learn. Even after a hundred times. They just keep going on and on and on and on, always thinking, "This time it will be different!", and it never is.
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Offline Scottftlc

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SCOTUS is now KING and this once great Republic is DEAD!

I get your point but I don't agree.  Scouts is simply following the lead of the dominant, popular culture in America.  They just want to be popular and "in", like politicians.  The popular culture, as driven by the left wing media and Hollywood - the really big money - is King.  And minority points of view will be crushed into the underground.
Well, George Lewis told the Englishman, the Italian and the Jew
You can't open your mind, boys, to every conceivable point of view

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Offline Bigun

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I get your point but I don't agree.  Scouts is simply following the lead of the dominant, popular culture in America.  They just want to be popular and "in", like politicians.  The popular culture, as driven by the left wing media and Hollywood - the really big money - is King.  And minority points of view will be crushed into the underground.

I'm afraid you do not fully understand what I said so let me explain. If SCOTUS is no longer confined by the  plain English language words contained in the law they are free to impose anything and everything they desire on the rest of us. That makes them KING and we are no longer protected by the Constitution in any form what-so-ever!

And as bad as this ruling is it gets even worse!

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-supreme-court-housing-discrimination-20150625-story.html
« Last Edit: June 26, 2015, 05:49:58 pm by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline aligncare

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I am afraid I have to agree. But it is based on the path Obama has blazed before them. Obama has taught all politicians, in a very real way, that 'Law' is meaningless without consequences. Obama is well known for his desire to be 'the King of America' and in full truth his real desire seems to be to be 'the King of the entire Earth'. And he has acted very many times in an unlawful way to bring these desires to fruition.

SCOTUS are not longer behaving as a traditional court. Rather they are behaving as just another 'political' branch of government, and they have noted very well that Obama has faced no consequences whatsoever for his blatant and flagrant illegal behavior, as have all the politicians in D.C.

SCOTUS is now behaving as a surrogate King George, as there is obviously no 'representation' in anything they do.

Therefore, we have a run away President with megalomania and dreams of grandeur, compounded by a Court system which supports him and no longer interprets what the law says, but rather interprets (rewrites) law to reflect their own personal interpretation of the 'good intentions' of the law meant to say. And in each case, their 'opinions' supersede the law as it is written and the will of the people to support the administration and their own personal biases.

This is a radical change in America. And Obama has built it and ushered it in. This is tyranny. Whether it is done by a President or by the court does not change what it is. It is a regression back to rule by fiat and rule by dictate, the law and the people be damned.

With the feckless and, well, "scared and timid" Congress we have with Boehner, combined with his increasingly pugnacious attitude toward any members who still value the rule of law and the will of the people, I do not think this trend can be reversed. I do not think the elite politicians of both parties will ever allow this new governmental order in America to be challenged or reversed.

Obama has, in very many ways, achieved his goal of fundamentally transforming America. I did not take his words very seriously when he first said this, but I did not know at the time that his "transformation" would have the full support of SCOTUS, and Congress (both parties), and the bulk of the entire government in full. That was a surprise to me. I did not know how deeply the avarice, corruption, and greed, had grown throughout all of government.

So, yes, I think we are done as a free nation of the people. We are now just another nation 'ruled', not governed, by an elite oligarch of super multimillionaires/multibilliionaires just like the rest of the world.

The great American dream has come to an end. Our children will never even know or understand what America once was. History will be changed and rewritten; books will be burned. And everything we, we on this forum, know about America will be erased and forgotten. Future generations will grow up to think that it was always like this, and that there is no other way to live, like the good little mind-addled robots they will be trained to be.

To end on a happy note, there is always hope, however dim it may be. And I am grateful to have grown up and prospered in what real America once was. At least that.

Also I know, that for the older Liberals alive today, there will inevitably be an 'Oh Shit!' moment, when they realize what they have unleashed, just like there was in Russia, just like there was in Cuba, just like there was in Germany. Just like there always is when Liberals usher in tyranny. At first they always love it, and then the reality hits.

For Liberals the rise of fascism always leads to:
'And there arose a new King in Egypt, who did not know Joseph' -- Exodus 1:8

But they never learn. Even after a hundred times. They just keep going on and on and on and on, always thinking, "This time it will be different!", and it never is.

Nice post, 240.

Offline Bigun

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I am afraid I have to agree. But it is based on the path Obama has blazed before them. Obama has taught all politicians, in a very real way, that 'Law' is meaningless without consequences. Obama is well known for his desire to be 'the King of America' and in full truth his real desire seems to be to be 'the King of the entire Earth'. And he has acted very many times in an unlawful way to bring these desires to fruition.

SCOTUS are not longer behaving as a traditional court. Rather they are behaving as just another 'political' branch of government, and they have noted very well that Obama has faced no consequences whatsoever for his blatant and flagrant illegal behavior, as have all the politicians in D.C.

SCOTUS is now behaving as a surrogate King George, as there is obviously no 'representation' in anything they do.

Therefore, we have a run away President with megalomania and dreams of grandeur, compounded by a Court system which supports him and no longer interprets what the law says, but rather interprets (rewrites) law to reflect their own personal interpretation of the 'good intentions' of the law meant to say. And in each case, their 'opinions' supersede the law as it is written and the will of the people to support the administration and their own personal biases.

This is a radical change in America. And Obama has built it and ushered it in. This is tyranny. Whether it is done by a President or by the court does not change what it is. It is a regression back to rule by fiat and rule by dictate, the law and the people be damned.

With the feckless and, well, "scared and timid" Congress we have with Boehner, combined with his increasingly pugnacious attitude toward any members who still value the rule of law and the will of the people, I do not think this trend can be reversed. I do not think the elite politicians of both parties will ever allow this new governmental order in America to be challenged or reversed.

Obama has, in very many ways, achieved his goal of fundamentally transforming America. I did not take his words very seriously when he first said this, but I did not know at the time that his "transformation" would have the full support of SCOTUS, and Congress (both parties), and the bulk of the entire government in full. That was a surprise to me. I did not know how deeply the avarice, corruption, and greed, had grown throughout all of government.

So, yes, I think we are done as a free nation of the people. We are now just another nation 'ruled', not governed, by an elite oligarch of super multimillionaires/multibilliionaires just like the rest of the world.

The great American dream has come to an end. Our children will never even know or understand what America once was. History will be changed and rewritten; books will be burned. And everything we, we on this forum, know about America will be erased and forgotten. Future generations will grow up to think that it was always like this, and that there is no other way to live, like the good little mind-addled robots they will be trained to be.

To end on a happy note, there is always hope, however dim it may be. And I am grateful to have grown up and prospered in what real America once was. At least that.

Also I know, that for the older Liberals alive today, there will inevitably be an 'Oh Shit!' moment, when they realize what they have unleashed, just like there was in Russia, just like there was in Cuba, just like there was in Germany. Just like there always is when Liberals usher in tyranny. At first they always love it, and then the reality hits.

For Liberals the rise of fascism always leads to:
'And there arose a new King in Egypt, who did not know Joseph' -- Exodus 1:8

But they never learn. Even after a hundred times. They just keep going on and on and on and on, always thinking, "This time it will be different!", and it never is.

Well said sir! And spot on!

 :hard crying:
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Will Text or Context Reign Supreme in King v. Burwell?

On March 4, 2015, the Supreme Court of the United States (SCOTUS) will hear King v. Burwell, a lawsuit attacking premium assistance tax credits under the Affordable Care Act (ACA) for those who live in states where the only Obamacare health insurance marketplace is the federal “exchange,” i.e., Healthcare.gov.

The King v. Burwell Dispute:  Text vs. Context

Background:  The ACA grants tax credits, based on income level, for individual health insurance purchased in the Obamacare marketplaces, also known as “exchanges.”  These credits may be claimed as premium assistance subsidies for a health plan selected by the taxpayer. In 2015’s open enrollment, over 9 million people purchased plans in the federal exchange, and of those about 87 percent, or over 7.5 million, purchased with premium subsidies. The King case questions the legality of these subsidies, and its outcome may determine whether 7.5 million or more taxpayers can continue to purchase insurance.
There are two types of Obamacare marketplaces: state exchanges and the federal exchange. The ACA created the federal exchange for individuals who live in states that refuse or fail to set up their own state exchange. Currently, a total of 37 states do not have state exchanges, and those states’ taxpayers must use the federal exchange. 

The King Challengers’ Argument: Premium subsidies are not allowed in the federal exchange.  The ACA’s text[1] creating the tax credit only provides for subsidies in “an Exchange established by the State.” The federal exchange has not been established by any state.  So, no tax subsidies can be provided in it, and taxpayers who live in the federal-exchange states cannot benefit from subsidies.

The King challengers’ argument is simple: “textualism” is supreme, and the specific statutory text creating the tax credit is controlling!

The Obama Administration’s Response: The text creating the tax credit cannot be taken out of context. The challengers read it myopically, in spite of the ACA’s whole text and meaning, and in disregard of the law’s overall intent.

The ACA provides every income-eligible taxpayer the right to claim premium subsidies regardless where she resides. The only condition is whether the taxpayer earns between 100 percent and 400 percent of the federal poverty line, nothing more.[2] Furthermore, taxpayers can only use subsidies for “qualified” health plans certified to meet minimum standards.[3] And, only “qualified” plans may be sold in any exchange including the federal exchange. If the ACA’s text really forbade premium subsidies in the federal exchange, no reason would exist for requiring only “qualified” plans to be sold in it.

This is especially true given the sweep of the ACA’s individual mandate which requires every taxpayer to have health coverage or pay a penalty. It would make little sense to subject every resident, in states that use the federal exchange, to potential penalties, yet deprive them of subsidies to buy coverage. 

The ACA requires every state to establish an exchange, but if a state refuses or fails to do so, the ACA requires the federal government to establish “such Exchange” for it.[4] The purpose of the federal exchange, as shown by the statute’s use of the word “such,” is to operate as the functional equivalent of an exchange “established by the state.”

To read the ACA’s text in isolation the way the King challengers do would propel insurance markets in states with the federal exchange into a “death spiral.” This occurs when markets cannot attract enough healthy insureds to offset unhealthy ones. Unhealthy people will often pay for health insurance regardless of premium subsidies, but healthy people often will not. Without subsidies, too many healthy buyers will exit the federal exchange, and drive up premiums to unaffordable, unsustainable levels. Congress did not create a law intended to expand coverage to “all” Americans, but at the same time, wreak havoc for insurance markets precluding anyone from buying insurance in federal-exchange states.

Other provisions of the law would be violated, or make little sense, if the King challengers were correct. For example, one section of the ACA permits states to waive certain of the ACA’s insurance market reforms including its provision for premium tax-credit subsidies.[5] But, states seeking waiver must submit a plan for the federal government’s approval showing that a comparable number of state residents would be covered, and even then, the plan cannot last beyond five years without re-approval. If a state could simply refuse to establish a state exchange and, as a result, preclude its residents from benefitting from the premium tax-credit subsidies in the federal exchange, it could achieve by fiat what this waiver section only permits with federal approval. Why would the ACA create a narrow path for states to waive its provisions, but permit a broader path to avoid them altogether?

Finally, the ACA requires meticulous information reporting on premium subsidies, including reports from both federal and state exchanges to reconcile tax credits with income-eligibility and to determine whether any taxpayer received excess subsidies.[6]  If premium tax subsidies were never supposed to be available in the federal exchange, no such reports would be needed from the federal exchange. That they are required from the federal exchange clearly reveals the challengers’ reading of the ACA is flawed.

Considered together, all of the ACA’s provisions provide the proper context to understand the specific text relied upon by the challengers. The ACA must be read to permit premium tax-credit subsidies in the federal exchange. To read it otherwise would violate the most basic “textualist” principles, which are to read statutes, whenever possible, so as to give meaning to every provision, and to avoid any reading that results in contradictions or renders certain provisions irrelevant or without purpose. Extra-textual sources of purported intent behind a statute’s meaning are not to be resorted to if at all possible.[7] In King, the context of the entire ACA must reign over any isolated text!

An Ambiguity ‘Tie’ Between Text and Context Goes to Obama

If ambiguity exists in how to interpret the ACA, and a “tie” exists between competing interpretations of text and context, the Obama administration’s fallback position relies on the precedent of Chevron, U.S.A., Inc. v. Natural Resources Defense Council (1984). Under Chevron, ambiguity in statutory text gets resolved in the courts by deferring to the executive agency charged with the law’s regulation and enforcement. The Internal Revenue Service (IRS) enforces the ACA’s tax provisions, and its regulations permit premium subsidies in the federal exchange. Unless those regulations are stricken as contradictory to text, Chevron deference should tip the scales of justice toward the Obama administration’s interpretation of the ACA’s text.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[1] 26 USC §36B(b)(2)(A).
[2] See 26 USC §36B(c)(1)(A) which defines who is an “applicable taxpayer.”
[3] See 26 USC §36B(c)(3); see also Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA)(Consolidated), Section 1301(a)(1)[18 USC §18021(a)(1)], which can be found at the following website: http://housedocs.house.gov/energycommerce/ppacacon.pdf , at p. 58.
[4] PPACA (Consolidated), Section 1321(c)(1)(B)(i), which can be found at the following website: http://housedocs.house.gov/energycommerce/ppacacon.pdf , at pp. 85-86.
[5] PPACA (Consolidated), Section 1332(a)(1), (2) & (4) [42 USC §18052(a)(1), (2) & (4)], which can be found at the following website: http://housedocs.house.gov/energycommerce/ppacacon.pdf, at pp.98-99.
[6] PPACA (Consolidated), Section 1401(f)(3)(C), (E) & (F) [IRC §36B(f)(3)(C), (E) & (F)], which can be found at the following website: http://housedocs.house.gov/energycommerce/ppacacon.pdf , at pp. 116-117.
[7] Ironically, the King challengers rely on a few statements made by Jonathan Gruber, an economics professor at MIT, and a purported “architect” of the ACA, to support their position that Congress intended premium tax-credit subsidies to be available only in state exchanges and not the federal exchange.  They cite certain Gruber statements suggesting the ACA was intentionally structured to put pressure on the states to create their own exchanges by threatening the states with depriving their residents of subsidies in the federal exchange.  The King challengers’ reliance on these purported Gruber statements reveals the weakness of their own interpretation of the ACA’s text, especially since many of the conservative Justices on the Supreme Court would appear to be strong supporters of a purely textualist approach to statutory interpretation. 

http://www.acslaw.org/acsblog/will-text-or-context-reign-supreme-in-king-v-burwell
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