Sanders to unveil free college tuition bill

[mystery-ak]

http://thehill.com/policy/finance/242362-sanders-to-unveil-bill-promising-free-tuition-at-public-universities

 By Rebecca Shabad - 05/18/15 10:26 AM EDT

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) is set to unveil legislation that would provide free tuition at four-year public colleges and universities on Tuesday.

The Democratic presidential candidate had called for two years of free tuition earlier this year.

The Vermont independent argued in a statement Sunday that the U.S. needs the “best-educated workforce” in order to remain competitive globally.

“That will not happen, if, every year, hundreds of thousands of bright young people cannot afford to go to college, and if millions more leave school deeply in debt,” said Sanders, the ranking member on the Senate Budget Committee.

His legislation would eliminate undergraduate tuition at public colleges and universities, the statement said, and would expand work-study programs. The measure would also “substantially lower” student debt and bring down rates on student loans, it said.

Sanders, who is running to the left of Hillary Clinton, called in February for federal and state governments to invest $18 billion per year in public higher education in order to make tuition free for two years.

Clinton, the Democratic front-runner, hasn’t discussed too many specific policy proposals yet, including on college tuition and student debt. MSNBC reported late last month that Clinton would soon unveil a college student debt plan.

[EC]

I agree with the Communist. The West does need a highly educated workforce to expand knowledge, technology and the economy.

Free tuition for all STEM disciplines, with course places allocated on academic ability ONLY. It's an upfront cost, sure, but one that the nation as a whole will profit from in the long term.

Basketweaving 101 or English for morons? Community college and paid for by the student.

[Luis Gonzalez]

Free?

How's it going to be free?

Will teachers not get paid?

Will utilities not charge campuses for usage?

No more cost for buildings, maintenance and equipment?

"Free" just means that so one else will be paying, and in this case, it will mean that those who can somewhat afford to send their kids to college, will now have to pay for other people's kids to attend as well.

Communists... always looking to make everyone equally destitute.

[Relic]

I agree with the Communist. The West does need a highly educated workforce to expand knowledge, technology and the economy.

Free tuition for all STEM disciplines, with course places allocated on academic ability ONLY. It's an upfront cost, sure, but one that the nation as a whole will profit from in the long term.

Basketweaving 101 or English for morons? Community college and paid for by the student.

Ok, careful with the Community College slight. My daughter is an RN thanks to a Community College. In fact, all 3 of my kids went to a Community College. The beauty of a CC is you don't pay for the football stadium, or the luxurious student center. You pay for teachers, rooms, and information.

Want to start starving the beast that is the American post secondary school system, make Community Colleges free. In most cases, Universities have partnered with Community Colleges so that credits transfer 100%.

[EC]

Community College is great for many things, especially practical and trade related. There is no better place to learn.

I suppose it was a swipe a little bit, but not at the CC's. At the useless degrees that do nothing but waste 3 years and cost the students/parents thousands for basically indoctrination into fluffy bunny land.

[Relic]

Community College is great for many things, especially practical and trade related. There is no better place to learn.

I suppose it was a swipe a little bit, but not at the CC's. At the useless degrees that do nothing but waste 3 years and cost the students/parents thousands for basically indoctrination into fluffy bunny land.

I'm just making you aware. It's common for people to look down their nose at CC's. It's not emotional to me. I just know my kids got a start, 2 years of quality post secondary and none are in debt because I could afford to buy them a car and 2 years of a CC. All 3 got jobs right after graduation. So, yes, I'm a CC booster.

I have a 4 year BS from a local university. So, my perspective is not that of someone who didn't go for the four year degree.

[MACVSOG68]

I agree with the Communist. The West does need a highly educated workforce to expand knowledge, technology and the economy.

Free tuition for all STEM disciplines, with course places allocated on academic ability ONLY. It's an upfront cost, sure, but one that the nation as a whole will profit from in the long term.

Basketweaving 101 or English for morons? Community college and paid for by the student.

A few problems.  First of course is how much this "free" education will add to our already $18 trillion+ debt.  Then of course there's the debate over which disciplines will be omitted especially given that STEM curricula will be keeping certain ethnic groups out of participating.  Because these disciplines may have more of a share of white and Asian students, the argument over what constitutes "academic ability" will come into play, just as the SAT has already been charged with being sexist.  Finally, what about choice?  Why not also pay for education in the trade skills? 

It's simply a bad idea to enlarge an already bloated government with yet another huge out-of-control entitlement.

[raml]

This is completely stupid. The federal or state governments were never set up to pay for college for students or for elementary or high school. If students have the ability to think and go to college they have the ability to work their way through like people have done in the past. Local taxes use to pay for schooling up to 12th grade and it worked. What is happening now doesn't work isn't working and will probably never work and people should just home school then have their kids go online for college it would wake up these people who want free this and that which is never free we are the government we need to put a stop to this crap.

[truth_seeker]

I attended both community college, and the Calif. State University system from 1965 to 1975, earning two degrees. It wasn't "free" but it was very affordable, compared to private schools.

My family encouraged education, but I dropped out, but got started again. By the end I was on the GI Bill, nearly full time work.

Our community college system in excellent. My sister in law became an RN, thanks to CC system. They also train in law enforcement, firefighting/EMT, many medical fields. Back in my day, they had technical programs in petroleum technology.

An instructor/professor in CC devotes his priorities to his lower division students, whereas many professors in four year schools, sleepwalk thru the lower division classes he is assigned.

I don't favor totally free, but I do favor a low, affordable cost. My four year school did not have football, but has fielded nationally top ranked baseball, gymnastics.

[Carling]

I agree with the Communist.

Free tuition for all STEM disciplines

Sounds like you're a Communist at worst, and Socialist at best.  Did you phrase these two sentences incorrectly?  How is any education "free?"  People like me who have a private business will have to pay more taxes, or we'll incur more debt, because the educational system's entrenched liberal public-union educators aren't going to start dropping their salaries to pay for this "free" tuition.

That doesn't even include the fact that Sanders is the preferred candidate of teachers' unions across this country, which should automatically make his bill DOA. 

[EC]

The educators in none STEM fields are going to be out of a job. Lots of savings there. Lots of union busting opportunities too - it tends to be them who are more active in union activities.

Say you are an academically inclined student. What are you going to do? A science/tech degree that gets you ahead without mortgaging your life, or a fuzzy subject that gives you a piece of paper that is only useful for teaching and a massive load of debt?

[Carling]

The educators in none STEM fields are going to be out of a job. Lots of savings there. Lots of union busting opportunities too - it tends to be them who are more active in union activities.

Say you are an academically inclined student. What are you going to do? A science/tech degree that gets you ahead without mortgaging your life, or a fuzzy subject that gives you a piece of paper that is only useful for teaching and a massive load of debt?

So you're saying that the best and brightest, based on some common testing set up by public educators, along with access to business and political connections from both the GOP and Dems likely "impacting" who gets to be educated for free, should get advantages in life that lesser specimens from us common peasants have to offer?

The Soviets already tried this, EC.  Is everything OK?

[jmyrlefuller]

Impose standardized testing for certain disciplines. Take the test, earn the credit. Security can be overseen by minimum wage laymen and scoring can be done by machine. Overhead costs then go through the floor.

I doubt, however, that the unions would like that proposal.

[EC]

The Soviets already tried this, EC.  Is everything OK?

Nah, I'm fine. 

Just looking at the way the economy seems to be as a whole (and leaving aside the deep and insatiable pockets of politics for a second) I'm minded of the line from My Hometown: "Foreman says these jobs are going boys, and they ain't coming back." It happened here, it's happening there, manufacturing is being outsourced. It's just particularly noticeable in the USA and the UK because we both were industrial powerhouses for so long.

So what we got left? Sure, there are trades and some service industries, people got to eat, houses got to be plumbed and rewired and bodies have to be plumbed and rewired likewise. Yet you can't build an entire country's economy on trades and services. Something, somewhere, has to bring money in.

The one thing no other country on the planet can match either of us for yet is technological innovation and development. Dad's an aero engineer (Rolls Royce engines) and he had a comment about the Far East - show them something and they can copy it accurately and far more cheaply than you can do. Ask them to build it from scratch and they are stumped.

So my thinking is work to our strengths, which are not down to intelligence so much (there are geniuses everywhere) but our combination of generally decent education and the total lack of social stigma that comes from questioning ideas and dogma. Can't really do much about the second aspect, not without destroying a fairly fragile flower that is the society we have grown over hundreds of years, but we can sure as hell make sure our geniuses have the tools they need to do genius things! Some of those tools happen to be people - the detail guys and gals that take the visionary's sketch and colour it in.

It would, of course, involve getting government AND unions out of schools pretty much completely. If someone wants to pay for the privledge of spending 4 years on gender studies, I say let them go for it. But if someone wants to study science, math, engineering, computing - as long as they keep the grades up, pay them to do it.

I'm probably explaining this terribly.

[MACVSOG68]

EC wrote:

It would, of course, involve getting government AND unions out of schools pretty much completely. If someone wants to pay for the privledge of spending 4 years on gender studies, I say let them go for it. But if someone wants to study science, math, engineering, computing - as long as they keep the grades up, pay them to do it.

Asking the government to pay for educating the smartest among us while getting government out of schools is an impossible proposition.  The government...all governments involve themselves in the workings of every program they fund.  And in almost all of their programs, the government picks winners and losers, much as you've suggested they do here.  I agree with your priorities, but question the means to achieve them, with of course, all due respect.

[Luis Gonzalez]

EC wrote:
Asking the government to pay for educating the smartest among us while getting government out of schools is an impossible proposition.  The government...all governments involve themselves in the workings of every program they fund.  And in almost all of their programs, the government picks winners and losers, much as you've suggested they do here.  I agree with your priorities, but question the means to achieve them, with of course, all due respect.

If (or maybe when) higher education becomes a "free" service provided by the government, the government will eventually assume the right to dictate the fields of study that students will follow, and the criteria used to determine what those fields will be, will be the needs of the State.

The State needs doctors. You will be a Doctor.

Mark my words.

[MACVSOG68]

If (or maybe when) higher education becomes a "free" service provided by the government, the government will eventually assume the right to dictate the fields of study that students will follow, and the criteria used to determine what those fields will be, will be the needs of the State.

The State needs doctors. You will be a Doctor.

Mark my words.

Duly marked.  And I agree with you.

[Lando Lincoln]

If (or maybe when) higher education becomes a "free" service provided by the government, the government will eventually assume the right to dictate the fields of study that students will follow, and the criteria used to determine what those fields will be, will be the needs of the State.

The State needs doctors. You will be a Doctor.

Mark my words.

And, the massive voting block supporting "free" college will never see it coming.

[ABX]