Author Topic: Vaccination protesters at Democratic convention compare California to Nazi Germany  (Read 2019 times)

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Offline Dexter

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http://www.latimes.com/local/political/la-me-pc-sb-277-vaccination-protest-20150516-story.html

Spurred by the state Senate's passage this week of a controversial bill that would require vaccinations for more California schoolchildren, dozens of protesters showed up outside the state Democratic Party's convention Saturday to assail the party's leaders in Sacramento. Toting signs suggesting that Gov. Jerry Brown was destined for hell and depicting a totalitarian state in which Americans are forcibly vaccinated, the demonstrators said they still hope the legislation, SB 277, will not become law. "I'm not giving up. I will leave this state before I will comply," said Theresa Born, 30, of Westminster. Born said that her young son was sickened by vaccinations in infancy. As a result, she said, she has avoided giving her other two children all the vaccines required by state law because she worries that they could produce negative reactions. However, she said, she has not been able to persuade doctors to grant the kind of medical exemption that would apply under the pending legislation.

SB 277 would eliminate a current exemption for parents' personal beliefs. The bill's advocates say the exception puts other children at risk by exposing them to kids who could be carrying disease. Broad consensus exists in the medical profession that vaccines are safe and effective for the vast majority of children. Vaccination refusal, which has been on the rise following its popularization by some celebrities, has been determined by health officials to have contributed to a measles outbreak earlier this year at Disneyland, next door to the convention center in Anaheim where the Democrats are gathered this weekend. "Science has proven vaccines to be safe," Dr. Richard Pan, the state senator who co-authored the bill, said in an interview inside the convention center Saturday. "It's important that we protect all children; we have to make policy here in this state based on sound science and on the facts, and that's what we're doing," he said.
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Offline truth_seeker

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Generations here in America (and elsewhere) watched friends and family members die or suffer, from diseases like Diphtheria, Typhoid, Polio etc.

Vaccinations solved those problems, plain and simple.

"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Online mountaineer

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Quote
"I'm not giving up. I will leave this state before I will comply," said Theresa Born, 30, of Westminster. Born said that her young son was sickened by vaccinations in infancy. As a result, she said, she has avoided giving her other two children all the vaccines required by state law because she worries that they could produce negative reactions.
She's positive they'll never get the diseases for which she's refusing the vaccination, and she's positive they'll never infect anyone else, though. How nice for her to be so absolutely certain of the future.
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Offline Dexter

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Offline GourmetDan

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She's positive they'll never get the diseases for which she's refusing the vaccination, and she's positive they'll never infect anyone else, though. How nice for her to be so absolutely certain of the future.

If only the vaccine manufacturers would offer the same absolute guarantee that no child receiving the vaccine will suffer any ill effects...


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Offline musiclady

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Generations here in America (and elsewhere) watched friends and family members die or suffer, from diseases like Diphtheria, Typhoid, Polio etc.

Vaccinations solved those problems, plain and simple.

Yep.

Even in my childhood, Polio was a real threat, and most of us knew someone who had it and suffered greatly.

The idea of going back to a pre-vaccination, diseased world, makes no sense.

At least not to me.....
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

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Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

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If only the vaccine manufacturers would offer the same absolute guarantee that no child receiving the vaccine will suffer any ill effects...
They can't, but probably can offer a greater chance of protection than Ms. Born.
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Offline truth_seeker

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If only the vaccine manufacturers would offer the same absolute guarantee that no child receiving the vaccine will suffer any ill effects...
Dude, there aren't that many "absolute guarantees" in life. I remember when parents were so thrilled their children would NOT face the ravages of polio, when there WERE  still people hobbling around with braces, or worse.

I also remember the line in the US Army with medics on each side, hitting us with air gun inoculations.

I believe society was more intelligent in those days. Now some people want "absolute guarantees."

There is no "absolute guarantee" when you drive your vehicle on public roads, or walk on public walkways, but you do it.

I know a family which lost an adult son, who overdosed on Tylenol. The warnings are on the container. My doctor gave me warnings. Tylenol does NOT give an absolute guarantee.

People take calculated risks every day, unless they remain huddled in their caves, waiting for "absolute guarantees."

"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline musiclady

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Dude, there aren't that many "absolute guarantees" in life. I remember when parents were so thrilled their children would NOT face the ravages of polio, when there WERE  still people hobbling around with braces, or worse.

I also remember the line in the US Army with medics on each side, hitting us with air gun inoculations.

I believe society was more intelligent in those days. Now some people want "absolute guarantees."

There is no "absolute guarantee" when you drive your vehicle on public roads, or walk on public walkways, but you do it.

I know a family which lost an adult son, who overdosed on Tylenol. The warnings are on the container. My doctor gave me warnings. Tylenol does NOT give an absolute guarantee.

People take calculated risks every day, unless they remain huddled in their caves, waiting for "absolute guarantees."

 goopo

The idea that anyone could provide an "absolute guarantee" about anything is completely unrealistic.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline GourmetDan

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They can't, but probably can offer a greater chance of protection than Ms. Born.

Probably?

If vaccines were really safe, the manufacturers would guarantee their safety.  They can't.

If vaccines were really effective, the manufacturers would guarantee their efficacy.  They can't.

But force this lady to vaccinate her other kids after her son got sick from them?  Absolutely...     /s




"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

"The sole purpose of the Republican Party is to serve as an ineffective alternative to the Democrat Party." - GourmetDan

Offline Dexter

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If vaccines were really safe, the manufacturers would guarantee their safety.  They can't.

See Truth Seeker's post.

If vaccines were really effective, the manufacturers would guarantee their efficacy.  They can't.

The effectiveness of vaccines is undeniable; we know they work. Do they have a 100% success rate? No, of course not. Almost nothing has a 100% success rate.

But force this lady to vaccinate her other kids after her son got sick from them?  Absolutely...     /s

She's not being forced. She can choose to not vaccinate.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2015, 02:14:54 am by Dexter »
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Offline GourmetDan

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Glad you boys are all on-board to let people make their own decision whether to vaccinate or not.

That is as it should be...


"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

"The sole purpose of the Republican Party is to serve as an ineffective alternative to the Democrat Party." - GourmetDan

Offline EC

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Probably?

If vaccines were really safe, the manufacturers would guarantee their safety.  They can't.

If vaccines were really effective, the manufacturers would guarantee their efficacy.  They can't.

But force this lady to vaccinate her other kids after her son got sick from them?  Absolutely...     /s


Balls.

There is exactly one absolute guarantee in this world. You are going to die. That is the only absolute.

She's saying her kids are never going to be exposed to these diseases - because all the other parents DO get their kids vaccinated. Tell me how this lady is any different from a typical welfare leech?
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Offline GourmetDan

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Balls.

There is exactly one absolute guarantee in this world. You are going to die. That is the only absolute.

She's saying her kids are never going to be exposed to these diseases - because all the other parents DO get their kids vaccinated. Tell me how this lady is any different from a typical welfare leech?

Don't think that's what either she or I said...


"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

"The sole purpose of the Republican Party is to serve as an ineffective alternative to the Democrat Party." - GourmetDan

Offline aligncare

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Vaccines work--after all, where would millions of years of evolution be without the invention of vaccines a little over 100 years ago?  Yes, that's sarcasm.

Immunity is a creation of God (or, of nature if you prefer). And were it not for natural immunity, higher life forms would not exist. Didn't you ever wonder why most people exposed to an outbreak of disease never develop symptoms? Descent through genetic inheritance over millions of years of evolution is why.

But, don't humans live longer since vaccines were invented? No, that's a function of statistics; not a function of vaccinations but rather the discovery of sanitation (germs)--ie. humans began living longer when they learned not to crap upstream from their drinking water.

There are legitimate medical questions, as well as serious liberty issues, surrounding forced vaccination.

Offline alicewonders

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Thank you ac, that makes a lot of sense.

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Offline GourmetDan

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There are legitimate medical questions, as well as serious liberty issues, surrounding forced vaccination.
And, we tend not to hear of developments outside our controlled media.

U.S. Media Blackout: Italian Courts Rule Vaccines Cause Autism

"On September 23, 2014, an Italian court in Milan award compensation to a boy for vaccine-induced autism. (See the Italian document here.) A childhood vaccine against six childhood diseases caused the boy’s permanent autism and brain damage.

While the Italian press has devoted considerable attention to this decision and its public health implications, the U.S. press has been silent."



« Last Edit: May 19, 2015, 01:43:36 pm by GourmetDan »
"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

"The sole purpose of the Republican Party is to serve as an ineffective alternative to the Democrat Party." - GourmetDan

Offline EC

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Great bit of "evidence" there - a court ruled that vaccines cause autism.

I can assume you are now perfectly fine with gay marriage and the removal of the rights of Christian businesses NOT to participate in said celebrations. After all, a court ruled that way.

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Offline musiclady

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Vaccines work--after all, where would millions of years of evolution be without the invention of vaccines a little over 100 years ago?  Yes, that's sarcasm.

Immunity is a creation of God (or, of nature if you prefer). And were it not for natural immunity, higher life forms would not exist. Didn't you ever wonder why most people exposed to an outbreak of disease never develop symptoms? Descent through genetic inheritance over millions of years of evolution is why.

But, don't humans live longer since vaccines were invented? No, that's a function of statistics; not a function of vaccinations but rather the discovery of sanitation (germs)--ie. humans began living longer when they learned not to crap upstream from their drinking water.

There are legitimate medical questions, as well as serious liberty issues, surrounding forced vaccination.

Maybe it's just anecdotal and personal, but one of my best friends had polio and spent her first few school years with braces on her legs and walking with awkward crutches.

I'm glad the polio vaccine stopped that from happening. 

I'm glad that people are no longer 'pock-marked' from small pox, and that families don't wait to count their kids as part of the family until they've had smallpox and survived.

I'm glad U.S. immigration laws used to prevent people from coming into America with T.B. and other communicable diseases.

Some times I think the government has the right to protect the vast majority from the irresponsible minority.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline GourmetDan

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Great bit of "evidence" there - a court ruled that vaccines cause autism.

I can assume you are now perfectly fine with gay marriage and the removal of the rights of Christian businesses NOT to participate in said celebrations. After all, a court ruled that way.

Get a life, EC...

"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

"The sole purpose of the Republican Party is to serve as an ineffective alternative to the Democrat Party." - GourmetDan

Offline GourmetDan

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The Age of Autism: 'A pretty big secret'

" It's a far piece from the horse-and-buggies of Lancaster County, Pa., to the cars and freeways of Cook County, Ill.

But thousands of children cared for by Homefirst Health Services in metropolitan Chicago have at least two things in common with thousands of Amish children in rural Lancaster: They have never been vaccinated. And they don't have autism.

"We have a fairly large practice. We have about 30,000 or 35,000 children that we've taken care of over the years, and I don't think we have a single case of autism in children delivered by us who never received vaccines," said Dr. Mayer Eisenstein, Homefirst's medical director who founded the practice in 1973. Homefirst doctors have delivered more than 15,000 babies at home, and thousands of them have never been vaccinated."


"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

"The sole purpose of the Republican Party is to serve as an ineffective alternative to the Democrat Party." - GourmetDan

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How many vaccinated children don't have autism? Anecdotes and coincidence are not the same as causation.
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Offline Charlespg

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http://www.latimes.com/local/political/la-me-pc-sb-277-vaccination-protest-20150516-story.html

Spurred by the state Senate's passage this week of a controversial bill that would require vaccinations for more California schoolchildren, dozens of protesters showed up outside the state Democratic Party's convention Saturday to assail the party's leaders in Sacramento. Toting signs suggesting that Gov. Jerry Brown was destined for hell and depicting a totalitarian state in which Americans are forcibly vaccinated, the demonstrators said they still hope the legislation, SB 277, will not become law. "I'm not giving up. I will leave this state before I will comply," said Theresa Born, 30, of Westminster
:facepalm2:

i am about as anti big big government as you can get ,But these idiots need to be given a ultimatum  .either get your kid vaccinated or we will do it for you ,No exceptions except medical

Not having your kids vaccinated against things like mumps,diphtheria etc is  child abuse and neglect pure and simple 
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Offline aligncare

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:facepalm2:

i am about as anti big big government as you can get ,But these idiots need to be given a ultimatum  .either get your kid vaccinated or we will do it for you ,No exceptions except medical

Not having your kids vaccinated against things like mumps,diphtheria etc is  child abuse and neglect pure and simple

That's my point. No one can predict if a child will have an adverse reaction to a particular batch of vaccine.

I'm not saying a vaccine or combination of vaccines cause autism. No one knows for certain.

My concern is the post-vaccination adverse reactions that happen with regular frequency, some very serious. My concern is no opt out provision. My concern is giving routine vaccines that have a potential for harm, to prevent diseases that an individual has almost no likelyhood of ever contracting naturally, and even if contracted would likely be destroyed by the body's own natural immunity.

Consider this. Most people aren't aware they contracted an organism if symptoms were never expressed because their own robust immune system handled it.

The CDC says vaccination can cause both minor and, rarely, serious side effects. Okay, but that's cold comfort if it's your child with post-vaccination brain swelling and consequent permanent damage – or even death – when, absent the vaccination, your child would have grown and thrived normally into adulthood.

Opt out provisions must be available as a matter of conscience – just as informed consent is part of accepting the risks of vaccination.