Author Topic: Amtrak train derails killing 5 people; investigation begins  (Read 3375 times)

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rangerrebew

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May 13, 5:17 AM EDT


Amtrak train derails killing 5 people; investigation begins

By MICHAEL R. SISAK
Associated Press
 
Raw: Amtrak Train Derailed in Philadelphia

   
PHILADELPHIA (AP) -- An Amtrak train abruptly overturned in Philadelphia, killing at least five people and injuring dozens of others, some of whom had to scramble through the windows of toppled cars to escape. The accident has closed the nation's busiest rail corridor between New York and Washington as federal investigators begin sifting through the mangled remains to determine what went wrong.

Train 188, a Northeast Regional, left Washington, D.C. and was headed to New York when it derailed shortly after 9 p.m. Tuesday. Amtrak said the train was carrying 238 passengers and five crew members.

Mayor Michael Nutter, who confirmed the deaths, said the scene was horrific and not all the people on the train had been accounted for.

"It is an absolute disastrous mess," he said. "I've never seen anything like this in my life."

He said all seven train cars, including the engine, were in "various stages of disarray." He said there were cars that were "completely overturned, on their side, ripped apart."

More than 140 people went to hospitals to be evaluated or treated, and six were critically injured.

Amtrak said the cause of the derailment was not known and that it was investigating. It was bringing in lights to illuminate the scene overnight as workers examined the wreckage.

The National Transportation Safety Board said it was launching an investigative team, which would arrive at the site Wednesday morning. The Federal Railroad Administration said it was dispatching at least eight investigators to the scene.

"It is a devastating scene down there," Nutter said. "We walked the entire length of the train area, and the engine completely separated from the rest of the train, and one of the cars is perpendicular to the rest of the cars. It's unbelievable."

The front of the train was going into a turn when it started to shake before coming to a sudden stop.

An Associated Press manager, Paul Cheung, was on the train and said he was watching Netflix when "the train started to decelerate, like someone had slammed the brake."

"Then suddenly you could see everything starting to shake," he said. "You could see people's stuff flying over me."

Cheung said another passenger urged him to escape from the back of his car, which he did. He said he saw passengers trying to escape through the windows of cars tipped on their sides.

"The front of the train is really mangled," he said. "It's a complete wreck. The whole thing is like a pile of metal."

Gaby Rudy, an 18-year-old from Livingston, New Jersey, was headed home from George Washington University when the derailment occurred. She said she was nearly asleep when she suddenly felt the train "fall off the track."

The next few minutes were filled with broken glass and smoke, said Rudy, who suffered minor injuries. "They told us we had to run away from the train in case another train came," she said.

Another passenger, Daniel Wetrin, was among more than a dozen people taken to a nearby elementary school afterward.

"I think the fact that I walked off (the train) kind of made it even more surreal because a lot of people didn't walk off," he said. "I walked off as if, like, I was in a movie. There were people standing around, people with bloody faces. There were people, chairs, tables mangled about in the compartment ... power cables all buckled down as you stepped off the train."

Police swarming around Tuesday's derailment site, in Port Richmond, a working-class area, told people to get back, away from the train. They pleaded with curious onlookers: "Do NOT go to scene of derailment. Please allow first responders room to work."

Roads all around the crash site were blocked off. Hundreds of firefighters surrounded the train cars, taking people out.

Several injured people, including one man complaining of neck pain, were rolled away on stretchers. Others wobbled while walking away or were put on city buses. An elderly woman was given oxygen.

Former U.S. Rep. Patrick Murphy was on the train and said he helped people. He tweeted photos of firefighters helping other people in the wreckage.

"Pray for those injured," he said.

Sen. Tom Carper of Delaware also was on the Amtrak train but got off in Wilmington, shortly before the derailment. He later tweeted that he was "grateful to be home safe and sound."

The area where the derailment occurred is known as Frankford Junction and has a big curve. It's not far from where one of the nation's deadliest train accidents occurred: the 1943 derailment of The Congressional Limited, from Washington to New York, which killed 79 people.

Amtrak said rail service on the busy Northeast Corridor between New York and Philadelphia had been stopped. The mayor, citing the mangled train tracks and downed wires, said, "There's no circumstance under which there would be any Amtrak service this week through Philadelphia."

The derailment happened in Port Richmond, one of five neighborhoods in what's known as Philadelphia's River Wards, dense rowhouse neighborhoods located off the Delaware River. Area resident David Hernandez, whose home is close to the tracks, heard the derailment.

"It sounded like a bunch of shopping carts crashing into each other," he said.

The crashing sound lasted a few seconds, he said, and then there was chaos and screaming.

Gov. Tom Wolf, who was in touch with the mayor and other state and local officials about the derailment, thanked the first responders for "their brave and quick action."

"My thoughts and prayers are with all of those impacted by tonight's train derailment," he said in a statement. "For those who lost their lives, those who were injured, and the families of all involved, this situation is devastating."
 
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_AMTRAK_CRASH?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-05-12-21-52-06
« Last Edit: May 13, 2015, 10:40:28 am by rangerrebew »

Offline DCPatriot

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Re: Amtrak train derails killing 5 people; investigation begins
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2015, 03:23:33 pm »


Picture of "train car derailer", used by railroad personnel in track yards to remove cars from tracks.

....just saying.   :whistle:

it should be pointed out here that the engine locomotive was off the tracks facing different direction.  No apparent damage or minimal damage.

All other cars EXCEPT ONE, were simply laying near the tracks on their sides.  That one car was almost unrecognizable.

I feel it's my duty here to introduce at least one conspiracy theory.      :laugh:
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Offline DCPatriot

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Re: Amtrak train derails killing 5 people; investigation begins
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2015, 03:27:48 pm »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PL4LOczlZo


Amtrak Train Crash Surveillance Video Philadelphia Amtrak Derailment Video
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

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Offline flowers

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Re: Amtrak train derails killing 5 people; investigation begins
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2015, 05:58:02 pm »
Amtrak train was going 100 mph, twice the speed limit before fatal crash: report

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2015/05/amtrak_train_was_going_twice_t.html


Offline musiclady

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Re: Amtrak train derails killing 5 people; investigation begins
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2015, 07:10:44 pm »
Train going 100 miles an hour, yet the creeps, Josh Earnest and his vile boss, Barack Obama are blaming REPUBLICANS as we speak.

How perverse can people get??

Prayers for the survivors, the wounded and the families of those lost.  What a senseless tragedy!
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Offline Fishrrman

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Re: Amtrak train derails killing 5 people; investigation begins
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2015, 01:13:49 am »
I ran Amtrak engines for 31 years.

There's no conspiracy here.

The posted limit for the curve was 50mph
The track speed approaching the curve was up around 100-110.

It's up to the engineman to know what the speeds are, where he is, where the braking points are, etc. In railroad lingo, this is know as being "qualified on the physical characteristics" of the territory.

The train entered the curve FAR too fast to stay on the rails. 75mph, he might have made it (would have been a rough ride). But 100+ -- no way.

The guy either forgot where he was, or perhaps was trying to be "too hot" coming up to the slowdown. The name isn't one I recognize, he must have been relatively new.

Things like this happen now and then.
They just do.
They'll continue to happen in the future, and there are going to be train wrecks no matter how much money is spent trying to "eliminate" them.

If you're running the engine, it's up to you.

Like the old song goes:
Life is like a mountain railroad
With an engineer that's brave
We must make the run successful
From the cradle to the grave
Watch the curves, the fills, the tunnels
Never falter, never fail
Keep your hand upon the throttle
And your eye upon the rail.

Offline EC

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Re: Amtrak train derails killing 5 people; investigation begins
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2015, 01:32:10 am »
 :beer:

It's always best to hear from someone who knows the job.

The engineer's silence so far - I assume that's on Union advice?
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Offline Paladin

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Re: Amtrak train derails killing 5 people; investigation begins
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2015, 01:55:26 am »
To be sure Fishrrman's observations, based as they are on 31 years of personal experience, is of high probative value, but I fear it pales into insignificance when compared to this expert opinion:

Quote
Singer Cher rips GOP over Amtrak funding

Quote
Singer Cher criticized Republicans on Wednesday for cutting Amtrak’s funding after one of its trains crashed the night before.

“Hrs ago, Republicans chose 2 cut Some of The meager Funds, 4 AMTRAK!!” Cher tweeted.

“They did this EVEN AFTER the Train Crash & loss of Life, last nite!!” she said.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/242015-singer-cher-rips-gop-over-amtrak-funding
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Offline mystery-ak

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Re: Amtrak train derails killing 5 people; investigation begins
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2015, 12:35:32 pm »
http://washington.cbslocal.com/2015/05/14/lawyer-amtrak-engineer-has-no-recollection-of-crash/

Lawyer: Amtrak Engineer Has ‘No Recollection’ Of Crash
May 14, 2015 7:31 AM

PHILADELPHIA (CBSDC/AP) — The Amtrak train that crashed in Philadelphia, killing at least seven people, was hurtling at 106 mph before it ran off the rails along a sharp curve where the speed limit drops to just 50 mph, federal investigators said Wednesday.

The engineer applied the emergency brakes moments before the crash but slowed the train to only 102 mph by the time the locomotive’s black box stopped recording data, said Robert Sumwalt, of the National Transportation Safety Board. The speed limit just before the bend is 80 mph, he said.

The engineer, whose name was not released, refused to give a statement to law enforcement and left a police precinct with a lawyer, police said. Sumwalt said federal accident investigators want to talk to him but will give him a day or two to recover from the shock of the accident.

Mayor Michael Nutter said there was “no way in the world” the engineer should have been going that fast into the curve.

“Clearly he was reckless and irresponsible in his actions,” Nutter told CNN. “I don’t know what was going on with him, I don’t know what was going on in the cab, but there’s really no excuse that could be offered.”

CBS News has identified the engineer as 32-year-old Brandon Bostian of Queens, New York.

Robert Goggin, Bostian’s attorney, told ABC News his client has “no recollection” of the crash.

“He remembers driving the train. He remembers going to that area generally, [but] has absolutely no recollection of the incident or anything unusual. The next thing he recalls is being thrown around, coming to, finding his bag, getting his cellphone and dialing 911,” Goggin told ABC News.

Goggin says Bostian voluntarily turned over a blood sample and his cellphone.

“I asked him if he had any medical issues,” he told ABC News. “He said he had none. He’s on no medications … He has no health issues to speak of and just has no explanation.”

Goggin stated Bostian was later “distraught” after learning the details of what happened.

“The television was on in the police district, and the constant count and recounting of the incident was being broadcast in his face all morning, and he was distraught,” Goggin told ABC News.

Goggin added that Bostian suffered a concussion.

“He’s got 14 staples in his head, several stitches in his leg. He has one leg, the other leg immobilized with a knee problem. What he looked was exhausted,” he told ABC News.

More than 200 people aboard the Washington-to-New York train were injured in the wreck, which happened in a decayed industrial neighborhood not far from the Delaware River just before 9:30 p.m. Tuesday. Passengers crawled out the windows of the torn and toppled rail cars in the darkness and emerged dazed and bloody, many of them with broken bones and burns.

It was the nation’s deadliest train accident in nearly seven years.

Amtrak suspended all service until further notice along the Philadelphia-to-New York stretch of the nation’s busiest rail corridor as investigators examined the wreckage and the tracks and gathered evidence. The shutdown snarled the commute and forced thousands of people to find other ways to reach their destinations.

The dead included an Associated Press employee, a midshipman at the U.S. Naval Academy, a Wells Fargo executive, a college administrator and the CEO of an educational startup. At least 10 people remained hospitalized in critical condition.

Nutter said some people were unaccounted for but cautioned that some passengers listed on the Amtrak manifest might not have boarded the train, while others might not have checked in with authorities.

“We will not cease our efforts until we go through every vehicle,” the mayor said.

He said rescuers expanded the search area and were using dogs to look for victims in case someone was thrown from the wreckage.

The NTSB finding about the train’s speed corroborated an AP analysis done earlier in the day of surveillance video from a spot along the tracks. The AP concluded from the footage that the train was speeding at approximately 107 mph moments before it entered the curve.

Despite pressure from Congress and safety regulators, Amtrak had not installed along that section of track Positive Train Control, a technology that uses GPS, wireless radio and computers to prevent trains from going over the speed limit. Most of Amtrak’s Northeast Corridor is equipped with Positive Train Control.

“Based on what we know right now, we feel that had such a system been installed in this section of track, this accident would not have occurred,” Sumwalt said.

The notoriously tight curve is not far from the site of one of the deadliest train wrecks in U.S. history: the 1943 derailment of the Congressional Limited, bound from Washington to New York. Seventy-nine people were killed.

Amtrak inspected the stretch of track on Tuesday, just hours before the accident, and found no defects, the Federal Railroad Administration said. Besides the data recorder, the train had a video camera in its front end that could yield clues to what happened, Sumwalt said.

As for the engineer, Sumwalt said: “This person has gone through a very traumatic event, and we want to give him an opportunity to convalesce for a day or so before we interview him. But that is certainly a high priority for us, to interview the train crew.”

The crash took place about 10 minutes after the train pulled out of Philadelphia’s 30th Street Station with 238 passengers and five crew members listed aboard. The locomotive and all seven passenger cars hurtled off the track as the train made a left turn, Sumwalt said.

Jillian Jorgensen was seated in the second passenger car and said the train was going “fast enough for me to be worried” when it began to lurch to the right. Then the lights went out, and Jorgensen was thrown from her seat.

She said she “flew across the train” and landed under some seats that had apparently broken loose from the floor.

Jorgensen, a reporter for The New York Observer who lives in Jersey City, New Jersey, said she wriggled free as fellow passengers screamed. She saw one man lying still, his face covered in blood, and a woman with a broken leg.

She climbed out an emergency exit window, and a firefighter helped her down a ladder to safety.

“It was terrifying and awful, and as it was happening it just did not feel like the kind of thing you could walk away from, so I feel very lucky,” Jorgensen said in an email. “The scene in the car I was in was total disarray, and people were clearly in a great deal of pain.”

Among the dead were award-winning AP video software architect Jim Gaines, a father of two; Justin Zemser, a Naval Academy midshipman from New York City; Abid Gilani, a senior vice president in Wells Fargo’s commercial real estate division in New York; Derrick Griffith, dean of student affairs and enrollment management at Medgar Evers College in New York; and Rachel Jacobs, who was commuting home to New York from her new job as CEO of the Philadelphia educational software startup ApprenNet.

Several victims were rolled away on stretchers. Others wobbled as they walked away or were put on buses.

“It’s incredible that so many people walked away from that scene last night,” the mayor said. “I saw people on this street behind us walking off of that train. I don’t know how that happened, but for the grace of God.”

The area where the wreck happened is known as Frankford Junction, situated in a neighborhood of warehouses, industrial buildings and homes.

Amtrak carries 11.6 million passengers a year along its busy Northeast Corridor, which runs between Washington and Boston.
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Offline flowers

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Re: Amtrak train derails killing 5 people; investigation begins
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2015, 03:32:41 pm »
Train going 100 miles an hour, yet the creeps, Josh Earnest and his vile boss, Barack Obama are blaming REPUBLICANS as we speak.

How perverse can people get??

Prayers for the survivors, the wounded and the families of those lost.  What a senseless tragedy!
Exactly.....I guess if he was going only 90 miles a hour it would be his fault!   :smokin:


Offline ABX

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Re: Amtrak train derails killing 5 people; investigation begins
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2015, 03:51:29 pm »
:beer:

It's always best to hear from someone who knows the job.

The engineer's silence so far - I assume that's on Union advice?

probably lawyer advice,  and good advice at that the way the media crucifies people before an ounce of evidence is out. Heck, a certain other website that shall not be named has already dammed him because he is gay. (They assume because he happened to like a gay rights page on Facebook).

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Re: Amtrak train derails killing 5 people; investigation begins
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2015, 07:43:45 pm »
I saw that thread.

 :3:
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Offline flowers

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Re: Amtrak train derails killing 5 people; investigation begins
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2015, 08:38:02 pm »
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/15/us/amtrak-derailment-philadelphia-engineer-brandon-bostian.html?_r=0

Quote
PHILADELPHIA — For Brandon Bostian, the engineer in the fatal Amtrak derailment in Philadelphia this week, a childhood passion for trains turned into a career.

Growing up outside Memphis, Mr. Bostian was an “unabashed nerd,” said Lee Allen, his best friend through middle school and high school.

“When you heard the name Brandon Bostian, the first thing you would think is trains,” Mr. Allen said on Thursday. “His walls were covered with pictures, he had several model sets. Sometimes we’d just go down to the tracks that ran through town and watch trains and shoot the breeze.”

Mr. Bostian was at the controls on Tuesday night when an Amtrak train hurtled off a sharp curve in north Philadelphia, killing eight people and injuring more than 200. The National Transportation Safety Board is investigating to determine why the train was traveling at 106 miles per hour — more than double the speed limit — when it derailed.

Mr. Bostian, 32, who lived in Queens, began working for Amtrak nearly a decade ago, first as a conductor and then as an engineer, Mr. Allen said. His lawyer, Robert Goggin, told ABC News on Thursday morning that Mr. Bostian did not remember the crash and was “distraught” to learn of what happened.

On the online forums of trainorders.com, a writer who signed many of his posts as “Brandon” routinely criticized railroad companies for not doing more to prevent accidents. Details strongly suggest the posts were by Mr. Bostian — the subjects and locations of the posts correspond to the places he lived and the jobs he has had at Amtrak. In a cached version of a deleted topic page, other members of the site identified Mr. Bostian by name and his online handle, saying he was the conductor of the train that derailed.

Good fn grief...........make it stop please.


Offline flowers

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Re: Amtrak train derails killing 5 people; investigation begins
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2015, 08:39:24 pm »
Does anyone know the speeds of Amtrak trains on that same corner when they are 10 minutes late? WHY THE HECK WAS HE DOING 100MPH?????


Offline DCPatriot

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Re: Amtrak train derails killing 5 people; investigation begins
« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2015, 09:50:18 pm »
Does anyone know the speeds of Amtrak trains on that same corner when they are 10 minutes late? WHY THE HECK WAS HE DOING 100MPH?????

My guess is that he had dozed off. 
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Offline DCPatriot

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Re: Amtrak train derails killing 5 people; investigation begins
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2015, 10:19:46 pm »
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

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Offline kevindavis007

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Re: Amtrak train derails killing 5 people; investigation begins
« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2015, 11:00:02 pm »
My guess is that he had dozed off.


That could have happened..
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Re: Amtrak train derails killing 5 people; investigation begins
« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2015, 11:03:36 pm »

That could have happened..

What is the maximum speed they adhere to between Washington and Philadelphia?  I can't believe it's 100 mph at ANY TIME.

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Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Amtrak train derails killing 5 people; investigation begins
« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2015, 11:13:21 pm »
The main finding at the Fresno Reporter, is that he is gay.
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Offline Fishrrman

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Re: Amtrak train derails killing 5 people; investigation begins
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2015, 12:28:33 am »
DCPatriot asks:
[[ What is the maximum speed they adhere to between Washington and Philadelphia?  I can't believe it's 100 mph at ANY TIME. ]]

That wasn't my territory (I was NYC-New Haven-Boston-Springfield), but I believe there are stretches where the maximum speed for coach trains (hauled with a locomotive) is 125, and the max for the Acela trainsets is 135.

From what I've gathered elsewhere, normal speed before the curves involved is 80. Restriction for the curve is 50.

Not sure why the engineer was accelerating up over 100 before the restriction.
He wasn't late, no reason to rush. (Aside -- I never rushed, even when I -was- late).

Your guess above that he might have "dozed off" is as good as any.
Factors involved might be whether he was regular to the assignment or "extra" (no fixed assignment, on call 24 hours a day).
What were his prior jobs before this one?
Did he get enough rest?

I spent many long lonely nights on the engine, in passenger and freight, just "hanging on". On the freights, the brakeman in the other seat might be sound asleep, but you've got to keep going. No stopping to catch a little rest. Getting on the engine at 12.30am, and not getting off until after noon the next day, without even a stop for coffee.

So, it's possible the guy could have nodded off at just the wrong time, with the engine accelerating -- and then perked up, but too late.

Like the song says:
I'm ridin' on that midnight train
My head is hangin' low
These awful blues will follow me
Wherever I may go.


I reckon' this guy's got them blues right now.

Offline DCPatriot

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Re: Amtrak train derails killing 5 people; investigation begins
« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2015, 01:12:28 am »
DCPatriot asks:
[[ What is the maximum speed they adhere to between Washington and Philadelphia?  I can't believe it's 100 mph at ANY TIME. ]]

That wasn't my territory (I was NYC-New Haven-Boston-Springfield), but I believe there are stretches where the maximum speed for coach trains (hauled with a locomotive) is 125, and the max for the Acela trainsets is 135.

From what I've gathered elsewhere, normal speed before the curves involved is 80. Restriction for the curve is 50.

Not sure why the engineer was accelerating up over 100 before the restriction.
He wasn't late, no reason to rush. (Aside -- I never rushed, even when I -was- late).

Your guess above that he might have "dozed off" is as good as any.
Factors involved might be whether he was regular to the assignment or "extra" (no fixed assignment, on call 24 hours a day).
What were his prior jobs before this one?
Did he get enough rest?

I spent many long lonely nights on the engine, in passenger and freight, just "hanging on". On the freights, the brakeman in the other seat might be sound asleep, but you've got to keep going. No stopping to catch a little rest. Getting on the engine at 12.30am, and not getting off until after noon the next day, without even a stop for coffee.

So, it's possible the guy could have nodded off at just the wrong time, with the engine accelerating -- and then perked up, but too late.

Like the song says:
I'm ridin' on that midnight train
My head is hangin' low
These awful blues will follow me
Wherever I may go.


I reckon' this guy's got them blues right now.

Thank you very much, Fishrrman, for the detailed response.   :beer:
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Offline Paladin

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Re: Amtrak train derails killing 5 people; investigation begins
« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2015, 04:27:40 am »
By now everyone should be aware the Democrats, led by Obama and Schumer, are ghoulishly attempting to exploit this tragedy by smearing the Republicans for failing to properly fund the infrastructure. Here's a story from the Washington Examiner which gives the lie to that meme.

Quote
Amtrak had installed the "Positive Train Control" system on the track where a speeding train fatally crashed Tuesday, but the system was not switched on.

The system could have automatically slowed the Amtrak 188, but instead it jumped the rails, killing 8 people and injuring more than 200.

According to a top congressional aide, Amtrak told the House Appropriations Committee on Thursday that the PTC system was installed along the section of track outside Philadelphia's 30th Street Station, where the crash occurred, but it was not operating.

The aide said Amtrak informed the committee it has encountered delays turning the PTC on throughout its system because of the need to get the bandwidths required to upgrade the radios to a higher MHz, which improves reliability.

Amtrak has worked out a deal with the Federal Communication Commission to get the broader bandwidth either late last year or early this year, an aide said.

It has spent $110 million on the PTC system over the past five years.

House appropriators are now trying to find out why the system wasn't turned on sooner.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/amtrak-speed-control-system-installed-but-wasnt-turned-on/article/2564542
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Offline kevindavis007

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Re: Amtrak train derails killing 5 people; investigation begins
« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2015, 12:12:09 pm »
Time to get rid of Amtrak..
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Offline Fishrrman

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Re: Amtrak train derails killing 5 people; investigation begins
« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2015, 09:37:00 pm »
kevindavis wrote above:
[[ Time to get rid of Amtrak ]]

There's no one with whom you could replace it.

You couldn't find a "for-profit" outfit that would be willing to take on the service, pay operational costs, and earn enough to fund the maintenance that's required or fund capital improvements.

The Northeast Corridor comes close to covering the operating costs, but that doesn't factor in the cost of buying equipment, maintaining the track, etc.

The entire concept behind Amtrak in the first place was that the private railroads couldn't run passenger service for a profit -- and that the government would take the passenger trains off the hands of the private (now freight-only) carriers.

I think it's fair to say that a national passenger service rail system (at least in this country) isn't going to earn a profit. It's a money-losing business. Same for commuter operations, and that's why they're all government agencies that require heavy funding.

But it's also fair to say that such a service is worth retaining, so long as losses are kept under control and to an "acceptable minimum".

There are far many more ways the government wastes money, in greater amounts, gaining far less in return...

Offline kevindavis007

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Re: Amtrak train derails killing 5 people; investigation begins
« Reply #24 on: May 15, 2015, 09:45:10 pm »
kevindavis wrote above:
[[ Time to get rid of Amtrak ]]

There's no one with whom you could replace it.

You couldn't find a "for-profit" outfit that would be willing to take on the service, pay operational costs, and earn enough to fund the maintenance that's required or fund capital improvements.

The Northeast Corridor comes close to covering the operating costs, but that doesn't factor in the cost of buying equipment, maintaining the track, etc.

The entire concept behind Amtrak in the first place was that the private railroads couldn't run passenger service for a profit -- and that the government would take the passenger trains off the hands of the private (now freight-only) carriers.

I think it's fair to say that a national passenger service rail system (at least in this country) isn't going to earn a profit. It's a money-losing business. Same for commuter operations, and that's why they're all government agencies that require heavy funding.

But it's also fair to say that such a service is worth retaining, so long as losses are kept under control and to an "acceptable minimum".

There are far many more ways the government wastes money, in greater amounts, gaining far less in return...


Well I kinda disagree.. Within in the 5 - 10 years we are going to see driverless cars...
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