Author Topic: Ted Cruz Says President Obama Is an 'Unmitigated Socialist'  (Read 5309 times)

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Offline flowers

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Ted Cruz Says President Obama Is an 'Unmitigated Socialist'
« on: April 21, 2015, 08:20:25 pm »
https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-04-21/ted-cruz-says-president-obama-is-an-unmitigated-socialist-

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After Texas Senator Ted Cruz addressed the First in the Nation summit in Nashua, New Hampshire, on Saturday, he headed to a basement conference room for a conversation with young Republicans. There was no filming of the speech, but reporters were allowed to sit in as Cruz fielded questions about Iran, millennials, and his own fitness for president. When one audience member asked Cruz what executive experience he could bring to the job, Cruz lambasted the “greybeards” in Washington for coming up with the “senator versus governor” framework in the first place.

“Obama is not a disaster because he was a senator,” said Cruz. “Obama is a disaster because he’s an unmitigated socialist, what he believes is profoundly dangerous, and he’s undermined the Constitution and the role of America in the world.”

According to Cruz, the only reason that pundits were saying the GOP needed to run a governor, not a senator, was that “most of the establishment moderates” in the field were governors. “In 1980, the strong conservative running in the race was Ronald Reagan,” Cruz said. “You didn’t hear ‘we need a governor’ then, because he was a governor. So none of those voices said, ‘We need a governor.’ They said, ‘You


Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: Ted Cruz Says President Obama Is an 'Unmitigated Socialist'
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2015, 09:49:58 pm »
Obama's lack of executive experience was an issue.  The line I remember from 2008 was that Palin had more executive experience as mayor of Wasilla.

As far as Obama being a "unmitigated socialist"....true or not Cruz will need some of Obama's voters to vote for him.  It might be prudent for Senator Cruz temper his rhetoric...

LOL  I wrote "Cruz" "prudent" and "temper his rhetoric"  in the same sentence.

Who am I kidding.  That ain't gonna happen.

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Ted Cruz Says President Obama Is an 'Unmitigated Socialist'
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2015, 10:34:12 pm »
Obama's lack of executive experience was an issue.  The line I remember from 2008 was that Palin had more executive experience as mayor of Wasilla.

As far as Obama being a "unmitigated socialist"....true or not Cruz will need some of Obama's voters to vote for him.  It might be prudent for Senator Cruz temper his rhetoric...

LOL  I wrote "Cruz" "prudent" and "temper his rhetoric"  in the same sentence.

Who am I kidding.  That ain't gonna happen.
In case nobody looked lately, the US has a mixed economy. The difference between our economy and successful economies in Europe, Canada, Australia, are very small.

So a overly simplistic criticism of say 1980 against "socialism" might be accurate and effective politically, it isn't going to go without opposition now.

Obama has won twice, while being called a socialist.  I think Cruz is looking in an old, outdated bag of tricks for campaign tools.
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: Ted Cruz Says President Obama Is an 'Unmitigated Socialist'
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2015, 10:36:49 pm »
Obama has won twice, while being called a socialist.  I think Cruz is looking in an old, outdated bag of tricks for campaign tools.
Absolutely

Offline andy58-in-nh

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Re: Ted Cruz Says President Obama Is an 'Unmitigated Socialist'
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2015, 11:41:36 pm »
Absolutely

Of course. We're all Socialists now. What's the diff?

Freedom is so... 18th Century. They didn't even have radio back then, can you believe it? What the hell did those antiquated old fools ever do for us anyway?

Socialism is clearly the wave of the present and the path to the future. People caring about people, you know? Everyone is equal. What's left to discuss?

I'm so over all that. Now, where's my health care subsidy, dude?
"The most terrifying force of death, comes from the hands of Men who wanted to be left Alone. They try, so very hard, to mind their own business and provide for themselves and those they love. They resist every impulse to fight back, knowing the forced and permanent change of life that will come from it. They know, that the moment they fight back, their lives as they have lived them, are over. -Alexander Solzhenitsyn

Offline aligncare

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Re: Ted Cruz Says President Obama Is an 'Unmitigated Socialist'
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2015, 12:00:14 am »
Of course. We're all Socialists now. What's the diff?

Freedom is so... 18th Century. They didn't even have radio back then, can you believe it? What the hell did those antiquated old fools ever do for us anyway?

Socialism is clearly the wave of the present and the path to the future. People caring about people, you know? Everyone is equal. What's left to discuss?

I'm so over all that. Now, where's my health care subsidy, dude?

Even mentioning Obama's extra-constitutional actions will get you the same indifferent attitude.

I feel like I'm living in an alternate universe.  I wake up one day and Bam! My view of the universe is out of sync with what I'm seeing and hearing.  It's very disconcerting.

Offline Bigun

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Re: Ted Cruz Says President Obama Is an 'Unmitigated Socialist'
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2015, 12:11:57 am »
Of course. We're all Socialists now. What's the diff?

Freedom is so... 18th Century. They didn't even have radio back then, can you believe it? What the hell did those antiquated old fools ever do for us anyway?

Socialism is clearly the wave of the present and the path to the future. People caring about people, you know? Everyone is equal. What's left to discuss?

I'm so over all that. Now, where's my health care subsidy, dude?

You're not bad at this satire thing yourself dude!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
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Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: Ted Cruz Says President Obama Is an 'Unmitigated Socialist'
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2015, 12:15:29 am »
Of course. We're all Socialists now. What's the diff?

Freedom is so... 18th Century. They didn't even have radio back then, can you believe it? What the hell did those antiquated old fools ever do for us anyway?

Socialism is clearly the wave of the present and the path to the future. People caring about people, you know? Everyone is equal. What's left to discuss?

I'm so over all that. Now, where's my health care subsidy, dude?

I know what you are saying Andy and I really do sympathize with your opinion, but you said it yourself.  American Freedom has been erroded for over 100 years.

Neither you or I have lived in an America without SS, Medicaid, income tax, farm subsidies, and such.  If we have to go back to the 1800's to get back to freedom, I think I'll pass.

To me Freedom means the People can choose.  IMO There is nothing wrong with the people choosing socialism as long as they are free to change their mind and vote against socialism like AFDC.

Like it or not, the American People expect government to do some things we both might call socialism.  The question today is how do we do it effectively and the least costly.

Your healthcare subsidy is at Healthcare.com unless you live in a state like WI where my Governor Walker told the poor to buck up.  Looks like I'll have to use my child tax credit to pay for healthcare.

Conservative Congressman and radio talk show host JD Hayworth has some tips for you to get by...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WmeaywMcCE

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Re: Ted Cruz Says President Obama Is an 'Unmitigated Socialist'
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2015, 12:37:50 am »
Geez.  He - Obama - is an incompetent naif.  That's all that needs to be said; the socialist crap, whether true or not, doesn't add anything to the discussion and simply distracts.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2015, 12:38:11 am by Oceander »

Offline andy58-in-nh

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Re: Ted Cruz Says President Obama Is an 'Unmitigated Socialist'
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2015, 12:42:12 am »
To me Freedom means the People can choose.  IMO There is nothing wrong with the people choosing socialism as long as they are free to change their mind and vote against socialism like AFDC.

Like it or not, the American People expect government to do some things we both might call socialism.  The question today is how do we do it effectively and the least costly.

I understand what you are saying, too but here's my problem with that: the people who claim, on the basis of being a majority, to have government provide for them the things that they want... are deciding not how to spend their own resources, but mine and yours, too.

They are empowering government to take from others and give to themselves. Or so they choose to believe. Until they, too find themselves on the wrong side of such authority, as is inevitable given economic reality.

That is not "freedom", no matter how you slice it.

It is, for one thing institutionalized theft, as validated by government's monopoly on the use of force, and also: the willingness of those deprived of their freedoms to accept such actions.

The former is proscribed in the United States by its Constitution; the latter by the moral imperative of universal human rights. Until enough of us decide to stop supporting our own deprivation and destruction, to decide as did our forebears that we are all endowed with inalienable rights, and that material comforts purchased at the expense of others diminish us all... we will continue our decent into a permanent condition of voluntary dependency. 
"The most terrifying force of death, comes from the hands of Men who wanted to be left Alone. They try, so very hard, to mind their own business and provide for themselves and those they love. They resist every impulse to fight back, knowing the forced and permanent change of life that will come from it. They know, that the moment they fight back, their lives as they have lived them, are over. -Alexander Solzhenitsyn

Offline aligncare

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Re: Ted Cruz Says President Obama Is an 'Unmitigated Socialist'
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2015, 12:55:47 am »
I understand what you are saying, too but here's my problem with that: the people who claim, on the basis of being a majority, to have government provide for them the things that they want... are deciding not how to spend their own resources, but mine and yours, too.

They are empowering government to take from others and give to themselves. Or so they choose to believe. Until they, too find themselves on the wrong side of such authority, as is inevitable given economic reality.

That is not "freedom", no matter how you slice it.

It is, for one thing institutionalized theft, as validated by government's monopoly on the use of force, and also: the willingness of those deprived of their freedoms to accept such actions.

The former is proscribed in the United States by its Constitution; the latter by the moral imperative of universal human rights. Until enough of us decide to stop supporting our own deprivation and destruction, to decide as did our forebears that we are all endowed with inalienable rights, and that material comforts purchased at the expense of others diminish us all... we will continue our decent into a permanent condition of voluntary dependency.

Thought I'd let that reverberate a bit longer....

Offline Bigun

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Re: Ted Cruz Says President Obama Is an 'Unmitigated Socialist'
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2015, 12:56:26 am »
I understand what you are saying, too but here's my problem with that: the people who claim, on the basis of being a majority, to have government provide for them the things that they want... are deciding not how to spend their own resources, but mine and yours, too.

They are empowering government to take from others and give to themselves. Or so they choose to believe. Until they, too find themselves on the wrong side of such authority, as is inevitable given economic reality.

That is not "freedom", no matter how you slice it.

It is, for one thing institutionalized theft, as validated by government's monopoly on the use of force, and also: the willingness of those deprived of their freedoms to accept such actions.

The former is proscribed in the United States by its Constitution; the latter by the moral imperative of universal human rights. Until enough of us decide to stop supporting our own deprivation and destruction, to decide as did our forebears that we are all endowed with inalienable rights, and that material comforts purchased at the expense of others diminish us all... we will continue our decent into a permanent condition of voluntary dependency.

Needs to reverberate a lot IMHO!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

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Re: Ted Cruz Says President Obama Is an 'Unmitigated Socialist'
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2015, 02:08:40 am »
Obama's lack of executive experience was an issue.  The line I remember from 2008 was that Palin had more executive experience as mayor of Wasilla.

As far as Obama being a "unmitigated socialist"....true or not Cruz will need some of Obama's voters to vote for him.  It might be prudent for Senator Cruz temper his rhetoric...

LOL  I wrote "Cruz" "prudent" and "temper his rhetoric"  in the same sentence.

Who am I kidding.  That ain't gonna happen.

I love you, buddy, but, what the hell are you saying?

Am so sick and tired of people telling the Republican candidates to "watch what you say"...."watch how you say it"....so as to not piss off that elusive indy vote.

SCREW THAT!   in case you haven't noticed, the country is being destroyed.  The time for self censorship in order not to scare away voters has come and gone.

Cruz' rhetoric serves a purpose.   All cameras and mics are on him because they know he's only a sentence or two away from drawing fire from the GOPe.  And the MSM just loves to show pubbies throwing punches at one another.

I would have called him an effing Manchurian President and 'Domestic Enemy Number One'.
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Re: Ted Cruz Says President Obama Is an 'Unmitigated Socialist'
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2015, 02:11:53 am »

I'm so over all that. Now, where's my health care subsidy, dude?


Heard on the radio today that a woman caller said that she is 64 years old and her health insurance is $721 per month, with a $6,700 cash out of pocket deductible.  And that her plan demands that she carries MATERNITY bennies.

Meanwhile an illegal immigrant family gets ALL of that.....for FREE!
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

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"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

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Re: Ted Cruz Says President Obama Is an 'Unmitigated Socialist'
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2015, 02:19:10 am »
Geez.  He - Obama - is an incompetent naif.  That's all that needs to be said; the socialist crap, whether true or not, doesn't add anything to the discussion and simply distracts.

BS, my friend.  Plain and simple.  And disconcerting as hell,  coming from you.

You know damned well that it's not "incompetence".  It's deliberate and well-planned and well executed.

When you own the mainstream media, you can get away with anything.

8 months bombing Iraq and Syria.....no press covering.   6 months...same thing in Libya.

Incompetent, my ass.

"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

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"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Offline Fishrrman

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Re: Ted Cruz Says President Obama Is an 'Unmitigated Socialist'
« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2015, 02:19:57 am »
[[ Heard on the radio today that a woman caller said that she is 64 years old and her health insurance is $721 per month, with a $6,700 cash out of pocket deductible.  And that her plan demands that she carries MATERNITY bennies.
Meanwhile an illegal immigrant family gets ALL of that.....for FREE! ]]


"Captain Smith -- the forecastle is slipping under the waterline...."

« Last Edit: April 22, 2015, 02:24:41 am by Fishrrman »

Offline musiclady

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Re: Ted Cruz Says President Obama Is an 'Unmitigated Socialist'
« Reply #16 on: April 22, 2015, 02:23:39 am »
Geez.  He - Obama - is an incompetent naif.  That's all that needs to be said; the socialist crap, whether true or not, doesn't add anything to the discussion and simply distracts.

Gotta go with DC here.  No way in hades is Obama naïve.

He knows exactly what he's doing.  He's had a game plan (albeit from higher ups) from Day 1, and he's methodically carrying it out.

His plan is to destroy America, and to turn it from a free country to a socialist state.

I say, BULLY for Cruz for saying it outright!

I want more of this, not less.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

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Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: Ted Cruz Says President Obama Is an 'Unmitigated Socialist'
« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2015, 02:57:03 am »
I love you, buddy, but, what the hell are you saying?

It's that kind of diplomacy that makes me value your posts so much (and seriously, I think you make me question my beliefs more than anyone else because you have spent a considerable time honing and defining your opinion.  Good on you.)

What do I know?  I'm just an average working shub, with a family and a desire to see America succeed as much as you.

My concern is that most people don't think like you and I do.  You and I are are 2 votes.  How do we persuade a nation?

I don't think condemnation is the way.  My mom is a union liberal.  I can call her a "socialist" and she says "OK. I care about the less fortunate"  I'm not sure the label holds the power it once did.

Beating up Obama will win the votes we already have.  What is the answer?  If I knew, my friend, I would run for President.

Thank you for your post
« Last Edit: April 22, 2015, 03:05:08 am by Once-Ler »

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: Ted Cruz Says President Obama Is an 'Unmitigated Socialist'
« Reply #18 on: April 22, 2015, 03:03:17 am »
I understand what you are saying, too but here's my problem with that: the people who claim, on the basis of being a majority, to have government provide for them the things that they want... are deciding not how to spend their own resources, but mine and yours, too.

They are empowering government to take from others and give to themselves. Or so they choose to believe. Until they, too find themselves on the wrong side of such authority, as is inevitable given economic reality.

That is not "freedom", no matter how you slice it.

It is, for one thing institutionalized theft, as validated by government's monopoly on the use of force, and also: the willingness of those deprived of their freedoms to accept such actions.

The former is proscribed in the United States by its Constitution; the latter by the moral imperative of universal human rights. Until enough of us decide to stop supporting our own deprivation and destruction, to decide as did our forebears that we are all endowed with inalienable rights, and that material comforts purchased at the expense of others diminish us all... we will continue our decent into a permanent condition of voluntary dependency.

I can't argue with a word you wrote Andy.

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Re: Ted Cruz Says President Obama Is an 'Unmitigated Socialist'
« Reply #19 on: April 22, 2015, 03:03:44 am »
It's that kind of diplomacy that makes me value your posts so much (and seriously, I think you make me question my beliefs more than anyone else)

What do I know?  I'm just an average working shub, with a family and a desire to see America succeed as much as you.

My concern is that most people don't think like you and I do.  You and I are are 2 votes.  How do we persuade a nation?

I don't think condemnation is the way.  My mom is a union liberal.  I can call her a "socialist" and she says "OK. I care about the less fortunate"  I'm not sure the label holds the power it once did.

Beating up Obama will win the votes we already have.  What is the answer?  If I knew, my friend, I would run for President.

Thank you for your post

 :beer:

I realize that it's "too small a sample size"....our little group here and even including the other conservative sites.

We all tend to think there's more of 'us' out there.  So, you're right.

But, as aligncare expressed earlier tonight, we wake up everyday and see that up is down...left is right...in is out.   And we wonder...are we the only ones that 'see' it?
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

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"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Ted Cruz Says President Obama Is an 'Unmitigated Socialist'
« Reply #20 on: April 22, 2015, 03:48:13 am »
A man walks up to a young woman sitting by herself in a bar and says to her "would you have sex with me, a complete stranger, for one million dollars in cash?"

The young woman looks him over, and says "seriously?"

He says, "seriously".

She tells him that she would, but she wants the cash up front.

He takes a hundred dollar bill out of his pocket and says "let's go."

She asks "where's the rest of the money", to which he replies "all I have is one hundred dollars. Are we having sex or not?"

The young woman, indignant now, shoots back "are you insane? What do you think I am?

The man replies "we've already established that. Now we're just haggling over price."

To denounce Obama as an "unmitigated  Socialist" in a country that's been Socialist for decades is simply haggling over the price.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2015, 03:48:50 am by Luis Gonzalez »
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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Ted Cruz Says President Obama Is an 'Unmitigated Socialist'
« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2015, 04:00:45 am »
I understand what you are saying, too but here's my problem with that: the people who claim, on the basis of being a majority, to have government provide for them the things that they want... are deciding not how to spend their own resources, but mine and yours, too.

They are empowering government to take from others and give to themselves. Or so they choose to believe. Until they, too find themselves on the wrong side of such authority, as is inevitable given economic reality.

That is not "freedom", no matter how you slice it.

It is, for one thing institutionalized theft, as validated by government's monopoly on the use of force, and also: the willingness of those deprived of their freedoms to accept such actions.

The former is proscribed in the United States by its Constitution; the latter by the moral imperative of universal human rights. Until enough of us decide to stop supporting our own deprivation and destruction, to decide as did our forebears that we are all endowed with inalienable rights, and that material comforts purchased at the expense of others diminish us all... we will continue our decent into a permanent condition of voluntary dependency.

Here's something written in 1850, an excerpt from a book by Frederic Bastiat. It's incredibly relevant to our times.

What Is Law?
What, then, is law? It is the collective organization of the individual right to lawful defense.

Each of us has a natural right — from God — to defend his person, his liberty, and his property. These are the three basic requirements of life, and the preservation of any one of them is completely dependent upon the preservation of the other two. For what are our faculties but the extension of our individuality? And what is property but an extension of our faculties? If every person has the right to defend even by force — his person, his liberty, and his property, then it follows that a group of men have the right to organize and support a common force to protect these rights constantly. Thus the principle of collective right — its reason for existing, its lawfulness — is based on individual right. And the common force that protects this collective right cannot logically have any other purpose or any other mission than that for which it acts as a substitute. Thus, since an individual cannot lawfully use force against the person, liberty, or property of another individual, then the common force — for the same reason — cannot lawfully be used to destroy the person, liberty, or property of individuals or groups.

Such a perversion of force would be, in both cases, contrary to our premise. Force has been given to us to defend our own individual rights. Who will dare to say that force has been given to us to destroy the equal rights of our brothers? Since no individual acting separately can lawfully use force to destroy the rights of others, does it not logically follow that the same principle also applies to the common force that is nothing more than the organized combination of the individual forces?

If this is true, then nothing can be more evident than this: The law is the organization of the natural right of lawful defense. It is the substitution of a common force for individual forces. And this common force is to do only what the individual forces have a natural and lawful right to do: to protect persons, liberties, and properties; to maintain the right of each, and to cause justice to reign over us all.

A Just and Enduring Government
If a nation were founded on this basis, it seems to me that order would prevail among the people, in thought as well as in deed. It seems to me that such a nation would have the most simple, easy to accept, economical, limited, nonoppressive, just, and enduring government imaginable — whatever its political form might be.

Under such an administration, everyone would understand that he possessed all the privileges as well as all the responsibilities of his existence. No one would have any argument with government, provided that his person was respected, his labor was free, and the fruits of his labor were protected against all unjust attack. When successful, we would not have to thank the state for our success. And, conversely, when unsuccessful, we would no more think of blaming the state for our misfortune than would the farmers blame the state because of hail or frost. The state would be felt only by the invaluable blessings of safety provided by this concept of government.

It can be further stated that, thanks to the non-intervention of the state in private affairs, our wants and their satisfactions would develop themselves in a logical manner. We would not see poor families seeking literary instruction before they have bread. We would not see cities populated at the expense of rural districts, nor rural districts at the expense of cities. We would not see the great displacements of capital, labor, and population that are caused by legislative decisions.

The sources of our existence are made uncertain and precarious by these state-created displacements. And, furthermore, these acts burden the government with increased responsibilities.

The Complete Perversion of the Law
But, unfortunately, law by no means confines itself to its proper functions. And when it has exceeded its proper functions, it has not done so merely in some inconsequential and debatable matters. The law has gone further than this; it has acted in direct opposition to its own purpose. The law has been used to destroy its own objective: It has been applied to annihilating the justice that it was supposed to maintain; to limiting and destroying rights which its real purpose was to respect. The law has placed the collective force at the disposal of the unscrupulous who wish, without risk, to exploit the person, liberty, and property of others. It has converted plunder into a right, in order to protect plunder. And it has converted lawful defense into a crime, in order to punish lawful defense.

How has this perversion of the law been accomplished? And what have been the results?

The law has been perverted by the influence of two entirely different causes: stupid greed and false philanthropy. Let us speak of the first.

The rest is here: http://bastiat.org/en/the_law.html
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Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: Ted Cruz Says President Obama Is an 'Unmitigated Socialist'
« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2015, 04:11:30 am »
Here's something written in 1850, an excerpt from a book by Frederic Bastiat. It's incredibly relevant to our times.

What Is Law?
What, then, is law? It is the collective organization of the individual right to lawful defense.

Each of us has a natural right — from God — to defend his person, his liberty, and his property. These are the three basic requirements of life, and the preservation of any one of them is completely dependent upon the preservation of the other two. For what are our faculties but the extension of our individuality? And what is property but an extension of our faculties? If every person has the right to defend even by force — his person, his liberty, and his property, then it follows that a group of men have the right to organize and support a common force to protect these rights constantly. Thus the principle of collective right — its reason for existing, its lawfulness — is based on individual right. And the common force that protects this collective right cannot logically have any other purpose or any other mission than that for which it acts as a substitute. Thus, since an individual cannot lawfully use force against the person, liberty, or property of another individual, then the common force — for the same reason — cannot lawfully be used to destroy the person, liberty, or property of individuals or groups.

Such a perversion of force would be, in both cases, contrary to our premise. Force has been given to us to defend our own individual rights. Who will dare to say that force has been given to us to destroy the equal rights of our brothers? Since no individual acting separately can lawfully use force to destroy the rights of others, does it not logically follow that the same principle also applies to the common force that is nothing more than the organized combination of the individual forces?

If this is true, then nothing can be more evident than this: The law is the organization of the natural right of lawful defense. It is the substitution of a common force for individual forces. And this common force is to do only what the individual forces have a natural and lawful right to do: to protect persons, liberties, and properties; to maintain the right of each, and to cause justice to reign over us all.

A Just and Enduring Government
If a nation were founded on this basis, it seems to me that order would prevail among the people, in thought as well as in deed. It seems to me that such a nation would have the most simple, easy to accept, economical, limited, nonoppressive, just, and enduring government imaginable — whatever its political form might be.

Under such an administration, everyone would understand that he possessed all the privileges as well as all the responsibilities of his existence. No one would have any argument with government, provided that his person was respected, his labor was free, and the fruits of his labor were protected against all unjust attack. When successful, we would not have to thank the state for our success. And, conversely, when unsuccessful, we would no more think of blaming the state for our misfortune than would the farmers blame the state because of hail or frost. The state would be felt only by the invaluable blessings of safety provided by this concept of government.

It can be further stated that, thanks to the non-intervention of the state in private affairs, our wants and their satisfactions would develop themselves in a logical manner. We would not see poor families seeking literary instruction before they have bread. We would not see cities populated at the expense of rural districts, nor rural districts at the expense of cities. We would not see the great displacements of capital, labor, and population that are caused by legislative decisions.

The sources of our existence are made uncertain and precarious by these state-created displacements. And, furthermore, these acts burden the government with increased responsibilities.

The Complete Perversion of the Law
But, unfortunately, law by no means confines itself to its proper functions. And when it has exceeded its proper functions, it has not done so merely in some inconsequential and debatable matters. The law has gone further than this; it has acted in direct opposition to its own purpose. The law has been used to destroy its own objective: It has been applied to annihilating the justice that it was supposed to maintain; to limiting and destroying rights which its real purpose was to respect. The law has placed the collective force at the disposal of the unscrupulous who wish, without risk, to exploit the person, liberty, and property of others. It has converted plunder into a right, in order to protect plunder. And it has converted lawful defense into a crime, in order to punish lawful defense.

How has this perversion of the law been accomplished? And what have been the results?

The law has been perverted by the influence of two entirely different causes: stupid greed and false philanthropy. Let us speak of the first.

The rest is here: http://bastiat.org/en/the_law.html

Great post.  Sure wish I hadn't been drinking.  I would respond better.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2015, 06:03:36 am by Once-Ler »

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Ted Cruz Says President Obama Is an 'Unmitigated Socialist'
« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2015, 05:04:28 am »
This stuff didn't just spring up under Obama.

Social Security started in the 1930s, during the Great Depression. We had 90+ % federal income tax rates in the 50s, 60s, 70s etc.

Federal communication regulation, federal and state water and waterway regulations, among only a few. Been around a long time.

We have had federal railroads and highways, massive government electrification, to name a few things which apparently are easily forgotten, but gall suddenly wound up, is hard to accept unless one has been asleep for a century.

When I read hair on fire conservatives warn the nation is about to crumble, I try to keep my head, and consider all of the facts.

Right after WWII ended, the Brits replaced Churchill with his liberal opponent. The citizens there wanted their stuff, just as they have voted for their stuff in other countries, including ours.

We need candidates who can persuade voters, that we need a course change.   

"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Online DCPatriot

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Re: Ted Cruz Says President Obama Is an 'Unmitigated Socialist'
« Reply #24 on: April 22, 2015, 11:10:37 am »
This stuff didn't just spring up under Obama.

Social Security started in the 1930s, during the Great Depression. We had 90+ % federal income tax rates in the 50s, 60s, 70s etc.

Federal communication regulation, federal and state water and waterway regulations, among only a few. Been around a long time.

We have had federal railroads and highways, massive government electrification, to name a few things which apparently are easily forgotten, but gall suddenly wound up, is hard to accept unless one has been asleep for a century.

When I read hair on fire conservatives warn the nation is about to crumble, I try to keep my head, and consider all of the facts.

Right after WWII ended, the Brits replaced Churchill with his liberal opponent. The citizens there wanted their stuff, just as they have voted for their stuff in other countries, including ours.

We need candidates who can persuade voters, that we need a course change.

 When you can show me where FDR worked with the Japanese in attacking Pearl Harbor...or hamstrung our military in fighting the Nazis, then I'll agree with you that Obama doesn't pose the threat to our country.  And that we've been 'here' before.

IMO, we haven't.



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