Author Topic: Crisis in Indiana: Random small-town pizzeria says it won’t cater gay weddings; Update: Might not re-open?  (Read 2956 times)

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Offline MACVSOG68

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When secular laws are used to prevent the free exercise of religion and force behavior that goes against those religions, it is acting as a competing religion.

Again though, if you have to use the claim that this means that all secular laws are unconstitutional maybe it is your claim that is wrong and not the fact that secularism is acting as a competing religion...

If secularism is a religion, then its laws are religious, just as Sharia law is a body of law that regulates public and private life in Islamic states.  I don't believe secularism can be described as a religion, nor do I think the founders thought so.  I do believe secular law can conflict with the First Amendment freedom of religion, and as has been pointed out by others here, it has done so with respect to Mormons, Indian rituals, and religious tests for public office.  Just as with the free speech provisions, some secular laws put limitations on it.  When conflicts take place, for example in public education, it can get messy and require judicial remedies. 

When secular laws are used to protect other rights or aspects of the Constitution, and those protections conflict with religious laws, which takes precedence?  If it's religious law, then religious laws are superior to the constitution.  John Adams views notwithstanding, I doubt the framers had that in mind, given they declared the Constitution the supreme law of the land.

My opinion is that laws that force creative effort by a business which clearly conflicts with religious principle are not constitutional.  Laws that require goods and services to be provided to all not involving creative effort (ie: inventory) are probably constitutional.  If I call a cab and a Muslim driver won't pick me up because I may be a Christian, do I have a cause of action.  I hope so.

Just My very humble opinion, of course.
It's the Supreme Court nominations!

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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If secularism is a religion, then its laws are religious, just as Sharia law is a body of law that regulates public and private life in Islamic states.  I don't believe secularism can be described as a religion, nor do I think the founders thought so.  I do believe secular law can conflict with the First Amendment freedom of religion, and as has been pointed out by others here, it has done so with respect to Mormons, Indian rituals, and religious tests for public office.  Just as with the free speech provisions, some secular laws put limitations on it.  When conflicts take place, for example in public education, it can get messy and require judicial remedies. 

When secular laws are used to protect other rights or aspects of the Constitution, and those protections conflict with religious laws, which takes precedence?  If it's religious law, then religious laws are superior to the constitution.  John Adams views notwithstanding, I doubt the framers had that in mind, given they declared the Constitution the supreme law of the land.

My opinion is that laws that force creative effort by a business which clearly conflicts with religious principle are not constitutional.  Laws that require goods and services to be provided to all not involving creative effort (ie: inventory) are probably constitutional.  If I call a cab and a Muslim driver won't pick me up because I may be a Christian, do I have a cause of action.  I hope so.

Just My very humble opinion, of course.

You're doing yeoman work here.
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, i have others." - Groucho Marx

Offline GourmetDan

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When secular laws are used to protect other rights or aspects of the Constitution, and those protections conflict with religious laws, which takes precedence?  If it's religious law, then religious laws are superior to the constitution.  John Adams views notwithstanding, I doubt the framers had that in mind, given they declared the Constitution the supreme law of the land.

My opinion is that laws that force creative effort by a business which clearly conflicts with religious principle are not constitutional.  Laws that require goods and services to be provided to all not involving creative effort (ie: inventory) are probably constitutional.  If I call a cab and a Muslim driver won't pick me up because I may be a Christian, do I have a cause of action.  I hope so.

Just My very humble opinion, of course.

Which is why it is an error to claim that all secular laws are unconstitutional under the First Amendment simply because secularism is acting like a religion and attacking other religions.

Again though, when secular laws are used to prevent the free exercise of religion and force behavior that goes against those religions, it is acting as a competing religion.

If you have to use the claim that this means that all secular laws are unconstitutional maybe it is your claim that is wrong and not the fact that secularism is acting as a competing religion...

« Last Edit: April 04, 2015, 01:40:35 am by GourmetDan »
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Offline MACVSOG68

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You're doing yeoman work here.
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Thanks Luis.  I think I'm done on this one.  A circular argument is best left alone.   :beer:
It's the Supreme Court nominations!

Offline Charlespg

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I'm at the point that I think Christians and Conservatives are going to have start looking at
how to have their voices heard.

its just a matter of time before the radical gay rights /and left start becoming militant, i
Why was my post Altered? this not what I said

start this crap and I will go elsewhere

DO NOT ALTER MY POSTS AGAIN
Rather Trump Then Cackles Clinton