Cruz I’m ‘Emphatic’ Balanced Budget Supporter, Want Means Tested Social Security

[Cyber Liberty]

Yikes! I'm stunned at 52. I've had young patients with congenital hip dysplasia that went to surgery. And a few older patients with acquired hip dysplasia, usually degenerative.

You don't have to answer, but was it disease, trauma, degenerative, multifactorial? That's so young. I suspect you got a new lease on life after the procedure!

Oh, BTW, I waved "goodbye" to the pain as I was rolled in to OR both times.  Feels much better now, indeed.

[jmyrlefuller]

I say get rid of the whole **** thing.

FICA is a tax, not a personal retirement account. There is no 'contract,' just an attempt by the government to sucker people into paying yet another entitlement. And even so-called 'conservatives' here have fallen for it and have exposed their rank hypocrisy. 'We need to cut entitlements but HANDS OFF MINE!'

[Bigun]

I say get rid of the whole **** thing.

FICA is a tax, not a personal retirement account. There is no 'contract,' just an attempt by the government to sucker people into paying yet another entitlement. And even so-called 'conservatives' here have fallen for it and have exposed their rank hypocrisy. 'We need to cut entitlements but HANDS OFF MINE!'

Jimmy you are singing of of my sheet of music! Can't be done all at once for sure but it sure as heck could be phased out over time!

[xfreeper]

I have an alternative approach. Stop taking money for ss and phase the program out by allowing anyone who contributed to get what they are supposed to. Once that is finished, no deductions, no payouts. Let people begin learning how to run their own lives.

[libertybele]

Definitely not for "means testing" and if indeed this is his plan, I find it concerning.  I know he wants to raise the retirement age which is almost inevitable anyways and he mentioned "transitioning" younger workers into a personal savings account.

Ted Cruz on Social Security:

 Raise retirement age; cap increases to inflation rate
Q: How would you protect Social Security for today's seniors and strengthen it for future generations?

A: On Social Security, I am campaigning on a series of very specific reforms. For seniors receiving Social Security or near Social Security, there should be no changes in benefits whatsoever. For younger workers, we need to do three fundamental reforms.

    Gradually increase the retirement age.
    Social Security benefits right now grow about 1% greater than inflation; we should have those benefits grow at the rate of inflation, not 1% more.
    Third change that I think is absolutely critical is to allow taxpayers to have a portion of the Social Security funds go to a personal account that they own and control.

[Cyber Liberty]

I say get rid of the whole **** thing.

FICA is a tax, not a personal retirement account. There is no 'contract,' just an attempt by the government to sucker people into paying yet another entitlement. And even so-called 'conservatives' here have fallen for it and have exposed their rank hypocrisy. 'We need to cut entitlements but HANDS OFF MINE!'

Your willingness to wipe out the retirement plans of those older than you is noted.  Cheers.

[Oceander]

I say get rid of the whole **** thing.

FICA is a tax, not a personal retirement account. There is no 'contract,' just an attempt by the government to sucker people into paying yet another entitlement. And even so-called 'conservatives' here have fallen for it and have exposed their rank hypocrisy. 'We need to cut entitlements but HANDS OFF MINE!'

Exactly.

[Luis Gonzalez]

I say get rid of the whole **** thing.

FICA is a tax, not a personal retirement account. There is no 'contract,' just an attempt by the government to sucker people into paying yet another entitlement. And even so-called 'conservatives' here have fallen for it and have exposed their rank hypocrisy. 'We need to cut entitlements but HANDS OFF MINE!'

An "entitlement"?

It's my money that they've been taking for years.

That's nt an "entitlement", other than perhaps I am untitled to my own money.

I'm OK with getting rid of it, so long as they pay me back every penny that's been taken out of my paycheck in the name of the later benefit.

[Oceander]

Your willingness to wipe out the retirement plans of those older than you is noted.  Cheers.

You're posing a false binary choice.  Getting rid of the current Social "Security" regime does not ipso facto mean dumping millions of seniors in the sewers.  What you do is pick a suitable cut-off age - an age at which it's not reasonable to expect someone to have enough time to work to replace social security - and then everyone below that age is no longer on social security; everyone at or above that age will still receive the standard social security benefits, although those could be phased in so that someone who is just 5 years over the cutoff age only gets a portion of social security, not 100%.  Next, you means test the program.  My grandfather did very well and left my grandmother well-off - there was no earthly reason why she should have been receiving monthly social security checks, and yet she was.

As far as funding goes, we start acting like adults and treat social security taxes as what they are:  a flat rate income tax imposed in addition to the tax that is called the "income tax".  People who are below the cutoff age are no longer subject to the social security taxes; those who are above the cutoff are still subject to them.  The shortfall that will exist when the young are no longer being taxed to pay current benefits is made up from out of the general revenues.  And yes, that does mean that we may need to contemplate a tax increase - it's expensive getting yourself out of the liberal lies and falsehoods you voted yourself into.  This shouldn't end up being a massive new open-ended drain on the general revenues because (a) the costs are means tested, and (b) there are only a finite number of people who will be receiving social security benefits, their numbers will always drop year over year, and eventually there will be no one left on the old social security program.

But, it's hard finding real adults in the federal government (and, unfortunately, too much of the rest of the country).

[Oceander]

An "entitlement"?

It's my money that they've been taking for years.

That's nt an "entitlement", other than perhaps I am untitled to my own money.

I'm OK with getting rid of it, so long as they pay me back every penny that's been taken out of my paycheck in the name of the later benefit.

You should get all of the income tax that's been levied on you because those funds weren't spent on you?  Get real.  The claim that FICA is anything other than a flat rate income tax is nothing more than a liberal lie concocted by FDR to make his socialism palatable to people.

The FICA and FUTA taxes are no different from the tax that is called the "income tax" eo nomine.  It is a tax and you are no more entitled to the return of those taxes than you are to the income taxes that have been levied on you - or to any of the excise taxes that have been levied on you - unless you wish to take the position that the Constitution does not in fact give Congress the power to levy any tax whatsoever.

[Luis Gonzalez]

You're posing a false binary choice.  Getting rid of the current Social "Security" regime does not ipso facto mean dumping millions of seniors in the sewers.  What you do is pick a suitable cut-off age - an age at which it's not reasonable to expect someone to have enough time to work to replace social security - and then everyone below that age is no longer on social security; everyone at or above that age will still receive the standard social security benefits, although those could be phased in so that someone who is just 5 years over the cutoff age only gets a portion of social security, not 100%.  Next, you means test the program.  My grandfather did very well and left my grandmother well-off - there was no earthly reason why she should have been receiving monthly social security checks, and yet she was.

As far as funding goes, we start acting like adults and treat social security taxes as what they are:  a flat rate income tax imposed in addition to the tax that is called the "income tax".  People who are below the cutoff age are no longer subject to the social security taxes; those who are above the cutoff are still subject to them.  The shortfall that will exist when the young are no longer being taxed to pay current benefits is made up from out of the general revenues.  And yes, that does mean that we may need to contemplate a tax increase - it's expensive getting yourself out of the liberal lies and falsehoods you voted yourself into. This shouldn't end up being a massive new open-ended drain on the general revenues because (a) the costs are means tested, and (b) there are only a finite number of people who will be receiving social security benefits, their numbers will always drop year over year, and eventually there will be no one left on the old social security program.

But, it's hard finding real adults in the federal government (and, unfortunately, too much of the rest of the country).

I didn't vote myself into anything. I didn't get a voice or a choice but the monies were taken out anyway.

Lousy plan, lousier execution, but the money paid into it belongs to those who paid the money into the system.

Your Grandmother got benefits because she paid for them.

Let's not mean test anything.

Calculate how much money was taken from my wages from the day they started taking that money, adjust the amount for inflation, and write me a check.

I'll take care of my own retirement.

[Oceander]

I didn't vote myself into anything. I didn't get a voice or a choice but the monies were taken out anyway.

Lousy plan, lousier execution, but the money paid into it belongs to those who paid the money into the system.

Your Grandmother got benefits because she paid for them.

Let's not mean test anything.

Calculate how much money was taken from my wages from the day they started taking that money, adjust the amount for inflation, and write me a check.

I'll take care of my own retirement.

You are so wedded to that epic mistake.  You didn't buy anything with FICA, you didn't earn anything.  You paid a tax, nothing more, nothing less.  Get over it, get real, and start acting like a fiscal adult.

[Luis Gonzalez]

You should get all of the income tax that's been levied on you because those funds weren't spent on you?  Get real.  The claim that FICA is anything other than a flat rate income tax is nothing more than a liberal lie concocted by FDR to make his socialism palatable to people.

The FICA and FUTA taxes are no different from the tax that is called the "income tax" eo nomine.  It is a tax and you are no more entitled to the return of those taxes than you are to the income taxes that have been levied on you - or to any of the excise taxes that have been levied on you - unless you wish to take the position that the Constitution does not in fact give Congress the power to levy any tax whatsoever.

The premise is different.

The premise of the SS tax is that I will receive direct benefits as a result of paying into it.

It's my money, not yours to do what you think it's best.

The idea that I lose proprietorship of my money because others believe that they have a better use for it is the real essence of liberalism.

[Oceander]

The premise is different.

The premise of the SS tax is that I will receive direct benefits as a result of paying into it.

It's my money, not yours to do what you think it's best.

The idea that I lose proprietorship of my money because others believe that they have a better use for it is the real essence of liberalism.

Then you are committed to the proposition that every tax the government might levy is illegitimate.

You were sold on false premises - FDR lied about a lot of stuff - get over it.

[Luis Gonzalez]

You are so wedded to that epic mistake.  You didn't buy anything with FICA, you didn't earn anything.  You paid a tax, nothing more, nothing less.  Get over it, get real, and start acting like a fiscal adult.

I'm not wedded to any mistake.

You pay FICA taxes in order to get money when you retire.

That's the simple premise of the plan.

I am an adult, and you telling me that I am not one because I don't agree with your is the sort of thing that start arguments where I end up being the "bad guy" for firing back in kind.

Why don't you stop the name calling and just engage in the debate?

[Luis Gonzalez]

Then you are committed to the proposition that every tax the government might levy is illegitimate.

You were sold on false premises - FDR lied about a lot of stuff - get over it.

I don't know FDR.

It's my money, not yours.

[Dexter]

Social security isn't going anywhere; it's a waste of time to argue about it.

[DCPatriot]

For a moment I was thinking he was meaning the disability aspects of the Social Security program.

Everybody knows the rolls are bogus and filled with people of the minority class who happened to run out of the '2 years' of payments to sit on their asses.  Or, people who have died years ago.

And I understand that they don't want to see FOXNEWS showing people living under bridges...or worse.

But like was stated up thread, it's time to filter out the scammers.

[Bigun]

Social Security is nothing more than a gigantic Ponzi scheme that happens to be run by the government. Except for that run by the government part it would have gone the way of all such schemes LONG ago. It will yet! It will take longer because the government has the ability to STEAL funds from younger workers in order to fund those receiving current benefits but even that will end some day and I predict it will be sooner rather than later.

[libertybele]

I didn't vote myself into anything. I didn't get a voice or a choice but the monies were taken out anyway.

Lousy plan, lousier execution, but the money paid into it belongs to those who paid the money into the system.

Your Grandmother got benefits because she paid for them.

Let's not mean test anything.

Calculate how much money was taken from my wages from the day they started taking that money, adjust the amount for inflation, and write me a check.

I'll take care of my own retirement.

 

[MACVSOG68]

Interesting thread, the differences of opinion demonstrate why it is called the third rail of American politics.  Quite a debate during Bush-43's term.  Lots of rhetoric; lots of bluster.  But all the bills introduced during that time made it past the first reading and died of loneliness.

The main reason SS will never go away, nor will be transformed into a privatization plan is that it's a defined benefit plan not a defined contribution plan.  IOW, SS is there for the life of the recipient; the latter only for the life of the money.

The old age/survivors portion has almost $3 trillion of assets represented by treasuries.  The disability feature is almost out of money.  So where is the $3 trillion?  Like all other revenues, it is spent on other government programs as it comes in and replaced with treasury certificates.

Means testing is absolutely wrong as this is as much a retirement program as any other, albeit nothing to write home about.  There are a number of adjustments that can be made to keep it in the red, some of which have been mentioned here.  Rates and caps can be increased; benefits can be adjusted, and certainly disability can and should be addressed, as it may be one of the most fraud prone programs the government runs.

But Dex is right.  Social Security ain't going anywhere.

[xfreeper]

You are so wedded to that epic mistake.  You didn't buy anything with FICA, you didn't earn anything.  You paid a tax, nothing more, nothing less.  Get over it, get real, and start acting like a fiscal adult.

Oh no. They keep all our money in a big lock box someplace for us. I think al gore gave the key to someone

[Cyber Liberty]

I didn't vote myself into anything. I didn't get a voice or a choice but the monies were taken out anyway.

Lousy plan, lousier execution, but the money paid into it belongs to those who paid the money into the system.

Your Grandmother got benefits because she paid for them.

Let's not mean test anything.

Calculate how much money was taken from my wages from the day they started taking that money, adjust the amount for inflation, and write me a check.

I'll take care of my own retirement.

And that's exactly what I'm doing, too.  It just pisses me off that the supposed "conservative" in the GOP race wants to penalize me for financing my own retirement.  It ought to piss everybody here off, and I'm more than a little disappointed that they're indeed pissed, not at the candidate but at me for demanding the goobermint abide by their contract.  One guy even calls us little children for expecting that.  I should just throw my money away for the common good (sounds like Hillary), that's the "adult" thing to do.

Come to think about it, I think this was the conversation we were having a number of months ago....

[DCPatriot]

And that's exactly what I'm doing, too.  It just pisses me off that the supposed "conservative" in the GOP race wants to penalize me for financing my own retirement.  It ought to piss everybody here off, and I'm more than a little disappointed that they're indeed pissed, not at the candidate but at me for demanding the goobermint abide by their contract.  One guy even calls us little children for expecting that.  I should just throw my money away for the common good (sounds like Hillary), that's the "adult" thing to do.

Come to think about it, I think this was the conversation we were having a number of months ago....

Maybe Oceander was attempting 'sarcasm'?      I'll give him the benefit of any doubt here. 

[Bigun]

But Dex is right.  Social Security ain't going anywhere.

Well yeah! There will always be something called Social Security but it won't look ANYTHING like it does today because THAT is completely unsustainable!