Author Topic: The New Madrid Earthquake that Will Divide the United States in Half  (Read 7828 times)

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Offline olde north church

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Re: The New Madrid Earthquake that Will Divide the United States in Half
« Reply #25 on: March 14, 2015, 12:06:53 pm »
Great.  Now I have one more thing I have to factor into my calculations for survival.  And I haven't yet wrapped my head around the strange signals coming from that planet just 22 light years away.

You can remove the 22 light year thing.  Our greatest cryptographers have deciphered the message:

BE SURE TO DRINK YOUR OVALTINE
Why?  Well, because I'm a bastard, that's why.

Online DCPatriot

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Re: The New Madrid Earthquake that Will Divide the United States in Half
« Reply #26 on: March 14, 2015, 12:42:00 pm »
You can remove the 22 light year thing.  Our greatest cryptographers have deciphered the message:

BE SURE TO DRINK YOUR OVALTINE

Do ya think Captain Midnight is still ALIVE out 'there'????   :laugh:
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Online Lando Lincoln

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Re: The New Madrid Earthquake that Will Divide the United States in Half
« Reply #27 on: March 14, 2015, 01:36:03 pm »
Are you a geologist?

Actually, I am a degreed geologist.

There is, among the geology/seismology community, ongoing discussions over which would be more catastrophic, a major release along the New Madrid Fault Zone or the Cascadia Subduction Zone (along the Oregon to Vancouver coastal/mountain range).  Much more is known about the fault lines in the Cascadia area because seismographic techniques can more precisely map the faults in the igneous rock formations there.  New Madrid, as noted, is covered by deep sediment in a geological basin area.  A major release in Cascadia would likely reach or exceed 9.0 on the Richter Scale while New Madrid would be in the 8.0+ range.  The difference is due to structural differences.  It is believed that the New Madrid could not store the potential energy to achieve 9.0 on the scale.  The Richter Scale is a logarithmic scale that accounts for the amount of energy released.  This means that for each change of one (1) on the scale, 10 times more energy is released. For example, a magnitude 5 quake releases 10 times more energy than a magnitude 4 quake.

So, Cascadia or New Madrid?  Well, they both would be incredibly catastrophic.  It is really like asking would you rather die in a fire or a flood?  But in the "quake zone", most contend the New Madrid would have the highest damage and loss of life.  The tremors would reach across a vast area because of the deep, water bearing sedimentary structure and soils.  Also, there are many population centers in the quake zone.  Cascadia, on the other hand is along solid igneous structures which, while huge, would not be propagated as broadly.

Where the debate turns, however, is the impact outside the actual quake zone.  A major Cascadia event would generate phenomenal tsunami activity.  Scientists believe waves reaching the shores of Pacific islands would be 130-150 feet in rise.  THAT would be an entirely new catastrophe.

Answer?  All bad.  Real bad.

BTW... most people think San Andreas when they think of quake dangers.  Seismologists believe the highest catastrophe dangers lie with the New Madrid and Cascadia.

Now, I go back to being just a guy.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2015, 02:09:16 pm by Lando Lincoln »
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Offline musiclady

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Re: The New Madrid Earthquake that Will Divide the United States in Half
« Reply #28 on: March 14, 2015, 01:56:16 pm »

Now, I go back to being just a guy.

A really, really smart guy!
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

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Online Lando Lincoln

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Re: The New Madrid Earthquake that Will Divide the United States in Half
« Reply #29 on: March 14, 2015, 01:58:40 pm »
A really, really smart guy!

Haha...

« Last Edit: March 14, 2015, 02:23:04 pm by Lando Lincoln »
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Offline truth_seeker

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Re: The New Madrid Earthquake that Will Divide the United States in Half
« Reply #30 on: March 14, 2015, 07:26:37 pm »
Am I geologist?  No.  Did I take several geology courses in my life?  Yes.  The geology of the west coast and the east coast are different.  The Rockies are among the younger of mountain ranges on the planet.  The Appalachians, actually, the oldest.  What lay between, is an ancient sea.  My brain isn't what it used to be.  Do us all a favor and do some research on your own.  Then you can tell the group how you got your factual ass kicked by a man with a man who actually DOES have half his brain tied behind his back.
Later.
I did do research on my own. That New Madrid area is dangerous. I'm not quite sure what the argument is.

I think we were talking past each other. You were emphasizing the sediment/liquefaction. I was emphasizing the building precautions, to minimize damages.

A reason why I turned to the building structural aspect, is that I have lived in an area which takes periodic earthquakes for granted; we get them, and have taken steps to reduce the damage.

I'm not trying to compete, about the level of knowledge, or which areas are the more dangerous. I took exactly one geology class.

--My mother lived in Whittier during the Long Beach quake of 1933, and told us about it. 120 people died in that one.
--I passed through Yellowstone as a kid (and the Madison River), weeks before the 1959 Hegben Lake quake. (My father grew up near Yellowstone, and we were visiting my grandparents.) 28 people died.
--I felt the 1971 San Fernando quake. 64 people died.gen
--I felt the 1987 Whittier Narrows quake. 8 people died.
--I felt the 1994 Northridge quake. 57 people died.

I missed the 1906 San Francisco quake but 3000 people died. In 1991 the Loma Prieta quake killed 63 people.

I know about liquefaction. I live on it. I live a few miles from the Newport-Inglewood Fault, the source of the nearby 1933 Long Beach quake. I am in deep trouble if we have a major Tsunami, and if we have another quake on the Newport-Inglewood.

In this case the liquefaction is due to sediment which was laid down by rivers, in this case the Santa Ana, San Gabriel and Los Angeles rivers. The result over geologic time is a coastal alluvial plain.

Coastal alluvial plains occur when rivers travel to the sea, on the East Coast and on the West Coast.

Along the coast in my county, there are both alluvial plains, and outcroppings of bedrock. The Mississippi Valley is an alluvial plain.

Whether the formations are older, or younger makes little difference, in terms of outcomes. The San Andreas Fault is the most studied in the world.

If lives can be saved by improved building practices in the New Madrid area, that is a good thing. I have no idea of the relative population of the area. In the case of California, over 30 million people live near the San Andreas zone.

In the United States, the greatest loss of life from quakes has been in California, Alaska, and Hawaii.

The US is joined by several other areas of the world, for serious earthquake risks. Japan, Chile, Mexico to name a few on the Pacific Rim of Fire.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Deadliest_earthquakes_by_US_state

And this on quake damage to buildings, and methods of mitigating the damage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthquake_engineering

 
« Last Edit: March 14, 2015, 07:36:55 pm by truth_seeker »
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Offline olde north church

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Re: The New Madrid Earthquake that Will Divide the United States in Half
« Reply #31 on: March 14, 2015, 07:47:21 pm »
I did do research on my own. That New Madrid area is dangerous. I'm not quite sure what the argument is.

I think we were talking past each other. You were emphasizing the sediment/liquefaction. I was emphasizing the building precautions, to minimize damages.

A reason why I turned to the building structural aspect, is that I have lived in an area which takes periodic earthquakes for granted; we get them, and have taken steps to reduce the damage.

I'm not trying to compete, about the level of knowledge, or which areas are the more dangerous. I took exactly one geology class.

--My mother lived in Whittier during the Long Beach quake of 1933, and told us about it. 120 people died in that one.
--I passed through Yellowstone as a kid (and the Madison River), weeks before the 1959 Hegben Lake quake. (My father grew up near Yellowstone, and we were visiting my grandparents.) 28 people died.
--I felt the 1971 San Fernando quake. 64 people died.gen
--I felt the 1987 Whittier Narrows quake. 8 people died.
--I felt the 1994 Northridge quake. 57 people died.

I missed the 1906 San Francisco quake but 3000 people died. In 1991 the Loma Prieta quake killed 63 people.

I know about liquefaction. I live on it. I live a few miles from the Newport-Inglewood Fault, the source of the nearby 1933 Long Beach quake. I am in deep trouble if we have a major Tsunami, and if we have another quake on the Newport-Inglewood.

In this case the liquefaction is due to sediment which was laid down by rivers, in this case the Santa Ana, San Gabriel and Los Angeles rivers. The result over geologic time is a coastal alluvial plain.

Coastal alluvial plains occur when rivers travel to the sea, on the East Coast and on the West Coast.

Along the coast in my county, there are both alluvial plains, and outcroppings of bedrock. The Mississippi Valley is an alluvial plain.

Whether the formations are older, or younger makes little difference, in terms of outcomes. The San Andreas Fault is the most studied in the world.

If lives can be saved by improved building practices in the New Madrid area, that is a good thing. I have no idea of the relative population of the area. In the case of California, over 30 million people live near the San Andreas zone.

In the United States, the greatest loss of life from quakes has been in California, Alaska, and Hawaii.

The US is joined by several other areas of the world, for serious earthquake risks. Japan, Chile, Mexico to name a few on the Pacific Rim of Fire.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Deadliest_earthquakes_by_US_state

And this on quake damage to buildings, and methods of mitigating the damage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthquake_engineering

I get cranky.  I love everybody.  It's also difficult to build "arguments" when you can't access information easily.  That's not your fault, I shouldn't take it out on you.  It's frustration.  We shake hands and go forward, acceptable?
Why?  Well, because I'm a bastard, that's why.

Offline musiclady

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Re: The New Madrid Earthquake that Will Divide the United States in Half
« Reply #32 on: March 14, 2015, 07:57:26 pm »
Haha...



Great emoticon!

As a music professor, let me tell all of you conversing on this thread that I am impressed with your knowledge and intelligence.

Maybe some time we can all talk about 16th century counterpoint, and I can feel smart again.   ^-^
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

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Re: The New Madrid Earthquake that Will Divide the United States in Half
« Reply #33 on: March 14, 2015, 08:27:23 pm »
Great emoticon!

As a music professor, let me tell all of you conversing on this thread that I am impressed with your knowledge and intelligence.

Maybe some time we can all talk about 16th century counterpoint, and I can feel smart again.   ^-^

No need! I wouldn't know what you were talking about and I already know that you are wicked smart!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline musiclady

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Re: The New Madrid Earthquake that Will Divide the United States in Half
« Reply #34 on: March 14, 2015, 08:33:09 pm »
No need! I wouldn't know what you were talking about and I already know that you are wicked smart!

 :beer:
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: The New Madrid Earthquake that Will Divide the United States in Half
« Reply #35 on: March 14, 2015, 09:04:32 pm »
I get cranky.  I love everybody.  It's also difficult to build "arguments" when you can't access information easily.  That's not your fault, I shouldn't take it out on you.  It's frustration.  We shake hands and go forward, acceptable?
I wasn't trying to fight, or compete. We're okay. And now we have a geologist, dragging our attention to the Pacific Northwest.

Over my adult lifetime, we have had several quakes, with loss of life. There was a time when mention of California evoked concerns, that people were scared to live here due to quakes.

Eg. That we were all fruits and nuts, and stupid to live in earthquake country, as well.

Here is extensive information about how buildings can be constructed, to minimize damages from quakes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthquake_engineering

Not particularly sexy stuff, but interesting to techy types, you know geology, engineering, etc.
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Online Lando Lincoln

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Re: The New Madrid Earthquake that Will Divide the United States in Half
« Reply #36 on: March 14, 2015, 09:10:09 pm »
And now we have a geologist, dragging our attention to the Pacific Northwest.
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Offline truth_seeker

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Online Lando Lincoln

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Re: The New Madrid Earthquake that Will Divide the United States in Half
« Reply #38 on: March 14, 2015, 10:07:30 pm »
Said in jest.

Oh, I know. No offense even remotely surfaced!!!
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Oceander

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Re: The New Madrid Earthquake that Will Divide the United States in Half
« Reply #39 on: April 02, 2015, 01:49:15 am »
Quote
According to a Wal-Mart executive, Wal-Mart “participated in an exercise to prepare for an earthquake on the New Madrid fault line” earlier this summer.

That makes sense given Wal-Mart's logistics/distribution network.

Offline ABX

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Re: The New Madrid Earthquake that Will Divide the United States in Half
« Reply #40 on: April 02, 2015, 04:48:54 pm »
That makes sense given Wal-Mart's logistics/distribution network.

It is a logical and common move for large corporations. Most, including the one I work for, have disaster preparation teams who come up with every scenario they can think of and how to manage their business logistics in these situations. If the business prepare for the worst, they can handle smaller disasters with ease. (example, telecoms have portable network towers and hubs that they can move into disaster zones at a short notice. They have planning for major disasters like Katrina, so moving them into a a small town that a tornado hit is easy and quick).

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Re: The New Madrid Earthquake that Will Divide the United States in Half
« Reply #41 on: April 03, 2015, 01:01:20 am »
It is a logical and common move for large corporations. Most, including the one I work for, have disaster preparation teams who come up with every scenario they can think of and how to manage their business logistics in these situations. If the business prepare for the worst, they can handle smaller disasters with ease. (example, telecoms have portable network towers and hubs that they can move into disaster zones at a short notice. They have planning for major disasters like Katrina, so moving them into a a small town that a tornado hit is easy and quick).


Agreed, but I believe that Wal-mart's logistics system is national and is finely tuned to deliver almost anything to almost anywhere it's needed.  In other words, in a national disaster Wal-mart would become a serious asset to the federal government, providing it with a logistics infrastructure the government does not have.

Offline alicewonders

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Re: The New Madrid Earthquake that Will Divide the United States in Half
« Reply #42 on: April 03, 2015, 01:24:02 am »
Agreed, but I believe that Wal-mart's logistics system is national and is finely tuned to deliver almost anything to almost anywhere it's needed.  In other words, in a national disaster Wal-mart would become a serious asset to the federal government, providing it with a logistics infrastructure the government does not have.

Indeed, Oceander.  I think Walmart has already done that many times, furnishing their trucks and drivers to drive truckloads of bottled water, etc - to communities that have been devastated by natural disasters such as tornadoes, etc - reaching the scene much, much sooner than FEMA or other gov't agencies can.

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Online kevindavis007

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Re: The New Madrid Earthquake that Will Divide the United States in Half
« Reply #43 on: April 04, 2015, 10:58:34 pm »
I have heard that Memphis will all but disappear.

Lots of very old two story buildings that won't withstand a big quake.


Especially Graceland..
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Online kevindavis007

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Re: The New Madrid Earthquake that Will Divide the United States in Half
« Reply #44 on: April 04, 2015, 11:03:50 pm »
You can remove the 22 light year thing.  Our greatest cryptographers have deciphered the message:

BE SURE TO DRINK YOUR OVALTINE


I can just imagine the Aliens reaction when they decipher that message.
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Offline Free Vulcan

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Re: The New Madrid Earthquake that Will Divide the United States in Half
« Reply #45 on: April 06, 2015, 03:13:18 am »
Indeed, Oceander.  I think Walmart has already done that many times, furnishing their trucks and drivers to drive truckloads of bottled water, etc - to communities that have been devastated by natural disasters such as tornadoes, etc - reaching the scene much, much sooner than FEMA or other gov't agencies can.

You are correct. I worked in their warehousing and distribution sector for many years. The govt does indeed use them in big disasters, plus they donate and distribute many millions in goods themselves.
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Oceander

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Re: The New Madrid Earthquake that Will Divide the United States in Half
« Reply #46 on: April 07, 2015, 01:14:37 am »
You are correct. I worked in their warehousing and distribution sector for many years. The govt does indeed use them in big disasters, plus they donate and distribute many millions in goods themselves.

When it comes to the government or Walmart, I'll take Walmart.

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Re: The New Madrid Earthquake that Will Divide the United States in Half
« Reply #47 on: April 07, 2015, 10:04:25 pm »
I think a more appropriate name for it would be the New Obama Fault since he is already splitting the country. :bullie smokin: