The Skinny on Net Neutrality

[Luis Gonzalez]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cLWgTIsMLM

[Luis Gonzalez]

I keep reading that we now have net neutrality, so we don't need these 300+ pages of regulations to mess that up.

I don't get how we already have net neutrality, sans regulations.

"Neutrality" like "fairness" and "equality" are concepts that require government regulations in order to exist, so there's no way that we can have net neutrality without regulations.

What we do have is free market at work with the Internet, and the government wants to control it.

Here's Mark Cuban on net neutrality on the The Blaze with Glenn Beck. Sorry, sound only.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_S6g6rQAuM

One last thought.

In essence, these 300+ pages of regulations will do to the Internet what the government did to other utilities such as power companies decades ago.

Today, the government says that it will need half a trillion dollars to bring our power grid into the modern world, so that we can come up to the standards of the rest of industrialized nations,

The free market was suppressed by the government in that industry destroying entrepreneurship, creativity and innovative thinking.

That's what any sort of government control will do to the Internet. 

The United States endures more blackouts than any other developed nation as the number of U.S. power outages lasting more than an hour have increased steadily for the past decade, according to federal databases at the Department of Energy (DOE) and the North American Electric Reliability Corp. (NERC).

According to federal data, the U.S. electric grid loses power 285 percent more often than in 1984, when the data collection effort on blackouts began. That’s costing American businesses as much as $150 billion per year, the DOE reported, with weather-related disruptions costing the most per event.

“Each one of these [blackouts] costs tens of hundreds of millions, up to billions, of dollars in economic losses per event,” said Massoud Amin, director of the Technological Leadership Institute at the University of Minnesota, who has analyzed U.S. power grid data since it became available in the '80s.

“The root causes" of the increasing number of blackouts are aging infrastructure and a lack of investment and clear policy to modernize the grid. The situation is worsened by gaps in the policies of federal and local commissioners.

http://www.ibtimes.com/aging-us-power-grid-blacks-out-more-any-other-developed-nation-1631086

[aligncare]

Liberal millennials are so easy to corral.

[ABX]

That's a good one. Sadly, even many on the right, including far too many Libertarians sound just like the chubby brunette lady using the road analogy.

The SWSX use analogy that Crowder made was excellent. Why shouldn't AT&T (or whomever) have the right to manage their bandwidth to maximize it for their customers. They know 99% of their customers are using these handful of sites for this event, and if they didn't put priority for those sites, everyone is bogged down.

Here is the dirty little secret, telecoms don't want customers to have slower or limited service. They want people to use as much as they can so they can charge overages. If they slow the service down for everyone, they don't use as much. The only reason they look at throttling is if there is an excessive load on a network that slows everyone down. Imagine one water pipe coming into a neighborhood and one person is constantly filling his pool with a fire hose, it reduces the flow for everyone else. The network should have the right to manage that so they can maximize the service for everyone. Net neutrality slows it for everyone to the slowest possible service so everything is fair and neutral.

(now, I'm not speaking for cable companies because they are just a**holes for a**hole sake)

[aligncare]

I loved the post office analogy. That really crystallized it for me.

[EdinVA]

I keep reading that we now have net neutrality, so we don't need these 300+ pages of regulations to mess that up.

I don't get how we already have net neutrality, sans regulations.

"Neutrality" like "fairness" and "equality" are concepts that require government regulations in order to exist, so there's no way that we can have net neutrality without regulations.

What we do have is free market at work with the Internet, and the government wants to control it.

Here's Mark Cuban on net neutrality on the The Blaze with Glenn Beck. Sorry, sound only.


One last thought.

In essence, these 300+ pages of regulations will do to the Internet what the government did to other utilities such as power companies decades ago.

Today, the government says that it will need half a trillion dollars to bring our power grid into the modern world, so that we can come up to the standards of the rest of industrialized nations,

The free market was suppressed by the government in that industry destroying entrepreneurship, creativity and innovative thinking.

That's what any sort of government control will do to the Internet.

The snag is Luis, the people who thrive on building empires do not know when to stop and have no moral compass.
Once they are successful, they consume any organization, private or public, to expand their power and wealth.

There is a series on the History channel called "The Men Who Made America" and it portrays the insatiable quest for money/power by Carnegie, Swabb,  Westinghouse and the like.

What mechanisms can we put in place to put their behavior in check?
Do we simply rely on the courts to react when presented with a case or do we attempt once again to regulate into existence responsibility?
I agree with you on the free enterprise but I ask the question because that is the root of the issue.

[Luis Gonzalez]

The snag is Luis, the people who thrive on building empires do not know when to stop and have no moral compass.
Once they are successful, they consume any organization, private or public, to expand their power and wealth.

There is a series on the History channel called "The Men Who Made America" and it portrays the insatiable quest for money/power by Carnegie, Swabb,  Westinghouse and the like.

What mechanisms can we put in place to put their behavior in check?
Do we simply rely on the courts to react when presented with a case or do we attempt once again to regulate into existence responsibility?
I agree with you on the free enterprise but I ask the question because that is the root of the issue.

The free market.

We already have anti-trust laws in place.

[aligncare]

The free market.

We already have anti-trust laws in place.

Exactly. Companies go out of business all the time because they stop meeting the customers needs or they abuse pricing policy.

[EdinVA]

Exactly. Companies go out of business all the time because they stop meeting the customers needs or they abuse pricing policy.

Small businesses die because the large stomp on them either with political manipulation or price wars.
Look at what Walmart has done to the small retailers.

[olde north church]

Was it Lichtenstein or Luxembourg that used to issue all those commemorative stamps?  This opens the opportunity for some tiny country to become a clearinghouse for satellite Internet.

[Luis Gonzalez]

Small businesses die because the large stomp on them either with political manipulation or price wars.
Look at what Walmart has done to the small retailers.

Freedom is a dangerous thing.

Then again, if we had burger neutrality laws, there would have never been a Five Guys.

What's telling is that all the Internet corporate giants are in favor of net neutrality.

[EdinVA]

Freedom is a dangerous thing.

Then again, if we had burger neutrality laws, there would have never been a Five Guys.

What's telling is that all the Internet corporate giants are in favor of net neutrality.

So you are ok with Walmart selling only cheap imported goods, aiding in shutting down American manufacturing and small retailers, cool.

Whats even more telling the is Internet Corporate Giants that have congress on their payroll to pass legislation to support their interests.

[EdinVA]

I take it you would prefer mom-and-pop retailers with their higher prices and nonexistent return policies?

Like I said before, I love the big retailers for lower prices and fantastic return policies.

Thier higher prices were because the used to sell primarily American Made Products, so yes, I would prefer that.
As for your nonexistent return policies, that is just nonsense.

[aligncare]

Small businesses die because the large stomp on them either with political manipulation or price wars.
Look at what Walmart has done to the small retailers.

I take it you would prefer mom-and-pop retailers with their higher prices and nonexistent return policies?Exchange only—if you're lucky

Like I said before, I love the big retailers for lower prices and fantastic return policies.

[Bigun]

The free market.

We already have anti-trust laws in place.

EXACTLY right!  The last thing the people pushing this kind of crap want is an actual FREE MARKET!

The more highly regulated ANY market becomes the less competitive it becomes and the big boys run wild. A perfect example of this being the new Dodd-Frank banking regulations!

[aligncare]

Thier higher prices were because the used to sell primarily American Made Products, so yes, I would prefer that.
As for your nonexistent return policies, that is just nonsense.

L.L. Bean allows you to return anything, at anytime if you are not satisfied. Try that with a mom-and-pop.

One other thing. I love Amazon.

[EdinVA]

During the 60's Carl Ichann, the corporate raider, bought controlling interest in companies, split them up and sold off the parts.  The then stuck the pension fund in his pocket and shut down what was left.  Millions lost their retirement.  The Carter administration created the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation, a private/government company, to take over funds of distressed companies. We also passed a regulation requiring that once a person acquires more that a certain percentage of a corporations stock they are required to declare their intent.

That is Free Market?

Several years ago there was a silver investor, forgot the name, that started paying very high prices for silver to boost the price of silver.  They then dumped tons of silver on the market at the higher price and made a killing but in the process, investors who bought at the higher prices, lost everything.  We then passed legislation banning such practices.

Is that free market?

Free market is not just about me and mine, the issue is bigger than that.

[EdinVA]

L.L. Bean allows you to return anything, at anytime if you are not satisfied. Try that with a mom-and-pop.

One other thing. I love Amazon.

L.L.Bean is a privately held, family-owned company.
http://www.llbean.com/customerService/aboutLLBean/company_information.html?nav=ftlink

[Luis Gonzalez]

So you are ok with Walmart selling only cheap imported goods, aiding in shutting down American manufacturing and small retailers, cool.

Whats even more telling the is Internet Corporate Giants that have congress on their payroll to pass legislation to support their interests.

I'm OK with the American consumer benefiting from Walmart's buying power.

There are many sources for those people who are not interested in cheap imported goods to buy higher quality, more expensive items.

No one is forced to buy from either Walmart or Sak's Fifth Avenue. What is truly important is that both exist and that we have the choice.

Internet corporate giants are in favor of "net neutrality".

[EdinVA]

I'm OK with the American consumer benefiting from Walmart's buying power.

There are many sources for those people who are not interested in cheap imported goods to buy higher quality, more expensive items.

No one is forced to buy from either Walmart or Sak's Fifth Avenue. What is truly important is that both exist and that we have the choice.

Internet corporate giants are in favor of "net neutrality".

But why is there nothing in the middle?  Why only 2 (or 3)?
Not a Saks shopper but I really doubt anything there is Made in the USA either.

[Luis Gonzalez]

So you are ok with Walmart selling only cheap imported goods, aiding in shutting down American manufacturing and small retailers, cool.

Whats even more telling the is Internet Corporate Giants that have congress on their payroll to pass legislation to support their interests.

Unions did that.

[Luis Gonzalez]

But why is there nothing in the middle?  Why only 2 (or 3)?
Not a Saks shopper but I really doubt anything there is Made in the USA either.

Nothing in the middle?

Target.

JC Penneys.

Sears.

Macy's.

Best Buy

Home Depot

Come on...

[EdinVA]

Nothing in the middle?

Target.

JC Penneys.

Sears.

Macy's.

Best Buy

Home Depot

Come on...

lol...
Target. - no made in the usa there

JC Penneys. - here either

Sears. - not any more

Macy's. - yea right

Best Buy - not happening

Luis, just messing here... I was just trying to make a point at what we are doing to our country.
We are using only price as the gauge to decide what we buy and then wrestling with workforce issues.
We need to stop listening to the marketers...

[alicewonders]

The Made in America problems started with NAFTA - which came about because unions were pricing American companies out of the market.  Of course, corporations are going to go where their costs are cheapest!

As a small business owner for 26 years who cried when I heard Walmart was coming to our town, as a business owner who had to rethink my business to find a niche that Walmart would not be able to fill - I completely sympathize with Mom & Pop businesses in America today!   But there are many that are still able to stay in business today - they just had to learn to think on their feet and find their "niche".  I don't like it - but don't blame Walmart.  They started out selling only Made in America, but they didn't become the world's largest employer by being stupid.

Does LLBean still say they sell only Made in America?  I haven't seen that claim lately in their catalog.  I might have missed it. 

[Bigun]

Thier higher prices were because the used to sell primarily American Made Products, so yes, I would prefer that.
As for your nonexistent return policies, that is just nonsense.

And the higher prices of American made products are due to nothing other than a tax code that puts any and everything made in the USA at a price disadvantage in the marketplace!