Author Topic: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations  (Read 13840 times)

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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #75 on: February 04, 2015, 12:37:47 am »
You might change your tune if it was your child that died after suffering a severe reaction. It's all fine in the abstract, but when it's your child, it's no longer abstract.

You may also change your mind if you (or your child) were one of those 549,000 cases of measles reported yearly in the US before 1969, or one of the 500 yearly deaths directly attributed to measles.

Since the danger of death or life-long complications due to measles have been removed from our collective memories by a generation of effective herd immunization, now we're more concerned about the possible negative dangers of vaccination, which may impact a small percentage of the population, and are advocating exposing the greater population to the dangers of the disease, all based on false and unfounded accusations promoted by ex-Playboy model turned junk scientist Jenny McCarthy, and discredited tin-foil conspiracists.

There were over 300 deaths attributed to malfunctioning seat belts in 2014, does that justify a movement to stop using seat belts?

The anti-vaccine movement is unfounded hysteria based on junk science and correlation/causation logical fallacies that will hurt more children than it will help.   

I feel bad for those parents whose children may have been hurt  or killed by complications with vaccinations, but their deaths do not add up to sufficient cause to endanger all the nation's children.

World-wide, there were more than 500,000 deaths from measles in 2003... none in the US.

Last year, 105 kids died from the flu. Ninety percent were not vaccinated.

From June 3rd 2007 through January 24th 2015 there have been 6,328 preventable deaths attributed to lack of vaccination in the US.

Vaccines work.
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Offline GourmetDan

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #76 on: February 04, 2015, 12:39:26 am »
Vaccines work.

This, therefore, is evidence that vaccinations must be forced upon all citizens by their government...


"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

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Offline musiclady

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #77 on: February 04, 2015, 12:59:41 am »
Unsettled with regard to polio, diphtheria, small pox, tuberculosis? I must have missed the "unsettled" nature of those serious public health threats, all nearly eradicated by vaccinations. Apparently the human immune system failed to protect people, until we used vaccines.

My grandfather lost 3 siblings to diphtheria during the 1880s and 1890s, in Dakota Territory. At the time they "treated" diphtheria by gargling kerosene.

As school kids, my wife and I remember people with braces, crutches and wheelchairs for polio. And we remember how grateful people were, about the polio vaccine.

But alas, things we learned the hard way, are being taken for granted and then lost, as we regress into broad public ignorance.

I had a good friend in kindergarten who wore those braces and walked with crutches, and have been thankful for the polio vaccine my entire life because of that.

Just because there are certain things that are required by government, doesn't mean we are completely controlled by them.

The eradication of deadly disease is no small matter, and for me, it's unfortunate that those of us who are in agreement with vaccinating children to prevent the spread of diseases that have been under control in our lifetime are being categorized (by at least one among us) as somehow being in support of government control of our lives.

It's an extreme accusation from a small minority, and IMO, is out of line.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #78 on: February 04, 2015, 01:16:15 am »
I had a good friend in kindergarten who wore those braces and walked with crutches, and have been thankful for the polio vaccine my entire life because of that.

Just because there are certain things that are required by government, doesn't mean we are completely controlled by them.

The eradication of deadly disease is no small matter, and for me, it's unfortunate that those of us who are in agreement with vaccinating children to prevent the spread of diseases that have been under control in our lifetime are being categorized (by at least one among us) as somehow being in support of government control of our lives.

It's an extreme accusation from a small minority, and IMO, is out of line.

Most susceptible to the disease are those who are not vaccinated.

Making the choice to not vaccinate is a personal thing... right up until you take into consideration that the members of our society that are put in harm's way by those who choose to not vaccinate, are those who CAN'T have the vaccine because they are either too young (infants) or too old.

A unvaccinated pregnant mother that contracts measles endangers her unborn child.

For any number of a group of people who pride themselves in reverence for the sanctity of life to demand the right to endanger the lives of the newly born, the unborn, and the elderly based on junk science and the right to do what we want to do with our bodies, seems flat out hypocritical.
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Offline GourmetDan

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #79 on: February 04, 2015, 01:19:37 am »
For any number of a group of people who pride themselves in reverence for the sanctity of life to demand the right to endanger the lives of the newly born, the unborn, and the elderly based on junk science and the right to do what we want to do with our bodies, seems flat out hypocritical.

Said the master of equivocation and non sequitur...

This, therefore, is evidence that vaccinations must be forced upon all citizens by their government...


« Last Edit: February 04, 2015, 01:21:43 am by GourmetDan »
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Offline EdinVA

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #80 on: February 04, 2015, 01:27:03 am »
Most susceptible to the disease are those who are not vaccinated.

Making the choice to not vaccinate is a personal thing... right up until you take into consideration that the members of our society that are put in harm's way by those who choose to not vaccinate, are those who CAN'T have the vaccine because they are either too young (infants) or too old.

A unvaccinated pregnant mother that contracts measles endangers her unborn child.

For any number of a group of people who pride themselves in reverence for the sanctity of life to demand the right to endanger the lives of the newly born, the unborn, and the elderly based on junk science and the right to do what we want to do with our bodies, seems flat out hypocritical.

I don't believe anyone disagrees that for the most part, vaccines are/can be a good thing.  The issue is you want the federal government to mandate, track, register, tax, fine and jail anyone that does not comply.

why can't the states take care of this if the voters want it?  Why does obama need to know who in my family gets a shot?

Offline musiclady

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #81 on: February 04, 2015, 01:32:15 am »
Most susceptible to the disease are those who are not vaccinated.

Making the choice to not vaccinate is a personal thing... right up until you take into consideration that the members of our society that are put in harm's way by those who choose to not vaccinate, are those who CAN'T have the vaccine because they are either too young (infants) or too old.

A unvaccinated pregnant mother that contracts measles endangers her unborn child.

For any number of a group of people who pride themselves in reverence for the sanctity of life to demand the right to endanger the lives of the newly born, the unborn, and the elderly based on junk science and the right to do what we want to do with our bodies, seems flat out hypocritical.

The sanctity of life issue is a valid one, Luis.

Every pregnant woman who gets medical care is tested for Rubella because that disease harms the unborn child.

For those of us who are pro-life, that unborn child is a human being deserving to be protected.  The same is true of infants and the elderly.

In addition, the argument that we have the right to do what we want with our own bodies is one that has been used by the pro-abortion crowd for decades, in the name of "liberty."

It doesn't wash with me....
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #82 on: February 04, 2015, 01:38:06 am »
As far as I can determine, vaccine enforcement is a state and local issue, hence posting by me from Mother Earth, about different opt out policies by state.

So as it turns out, it is NOT the federal government forcing people to do things. 
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Offline olde north church

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #83 on: February 04, 2015, 02:03:50 am »
You might change your tune if it was your child that died after suffering a severe reaction. It's all fine in the abstract, but when it's your child, it's no longer abstract.

That is life.
Why?  Well, because I'm a bastard, that's why.

Offline musiclady

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #84 on: February 04, 2015, 03:16:47 am »
As far as I can determine, vaccine enforcement is a state and local issue, hence posting by me from Mother Earth, about different opt out policies by state.

So as it turns out, it is NOT the federal government forcing people to do things.

It is normally the County Health Department that deals with immunizations.

At least that's the way it was when our children were immunized, and any of us have gotten vaccines for overseas travel.

Someone may feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about that.   ^-^
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #85 on: February 04, 2015, 04:06:21 am »
I don't believe anyone disagrees that for the most part, vaccines are/can be a good thing.  The issue is you want the federal government to mandate, track, register, tax, fine and jail anyone that does not comply.

why can't the states take care of this if the voters want it?  Why does obama need to know who in my family gets a shot?

It's not the Federal government, however, I think that the real issue here is that we've lost so much common sense and ability to actually think for ourselves that having the government enforce vaccinations may become an actual necessity.

Then there are the ancillary issues such as the one musiclady points out. We want to deny others the "it's my body and I'll do what I want with it" argument when it comes to abortion based on the moral argument that life is sacred, then turn around and make that same argument when it comes to endangering the unborn, the newly born, the elderly and infirm, and our children in general, in order to support our individual right to do what we want with our bodies and our children.

That's the height of hypocrisy.

So whether it's abortion or same-sex marriage, we either act in concert with what we believe is in the best interest of society, and be ready to give up as many individual freedoms as those we want to take from others, or not. What we don't get to do is make the argument that we can decide for others what they can or can't do in the name of the better interest of society, then turn around and claim title to the right to acting in a manner detrimental to that same society, in the name of individual freedom.

That's is tyranny.
 
« Last Edit: February 04, 2015, 04:07:23 am by Luis Gonzalez »
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Offline EdinVA

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #86 on: February 04, 2015, 12:47:21 pm »
Then there are the ancillary issues such as the one musiclady points out. We want to deny others the "it's my body and I'll do what I want with it" argument when it comes to abortion based on the moral argument that life is sacred, then turn around and make that same argument when it comes to endangering the unborn, the newly born, the elderly and infirm, and our children in general, in order to support our individual right to do what we want with our bodies and our children.

That's the height of hypocrisy.

Then you must agree with the left on things like getting rid of carbon based fuels because those that do not drive or fly suffer and banning guns because those that do not have gun are scared?

We need to be consistent, either you are responsible for yourself and your family or the government is?

I share your compassion, don't get me wrong, but it is MY responsibility to take care of me and mine, period.  If I am concerned, then I will take the action.
The government, at all levels, has screwed up everything they have ever touched.

Online mountaineer

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #87 on: February 04, 2015, 01:25:44 pm »
As far as I can determine, vaccine enforcement is a state and local issue, hence posting by me from Mother Earth, about different opt out policies by state.

So as it turns out, it is NOT the federal government forcing people to do things.
Nowadays, everything is a federal issue, dontcha know. There is no formerly-local issue into which the federal government cannot interject itself.
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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #88 on: February 04, 2015, 01:33:07 pm »
Then you must agree with the left on things like getting rid of carbon based fuels because those that do not drive or fly suffer and banning guns because those that do not have gun are scared?

We need to be consistent, either you are responsible for yourself and your family or the government is?

I share your compassion, don't get me wrong, but it is MY responsibility to take care of me and mine, period.  If I am concerned, then I will take the action.
The government, at all levels, has screwed up everything they have ever touched.

Actually, you have it perfectly backwards.

Those who advocate against vaccines because of the dangers they may impose of a small percentage of the population while ignoring their benefits to the greater portion of the population are in the same camp with those who advocate against guns because of the possibility of danger to a small percentage of the population all the while ignoring the greater benefits of gun ownership.

If it is solely YOUR responsibility to care for you and yours, the why would you believe that exposing you and yours to the inherent dangers of preventable diseases is considered caring for you and yours?

If you are not vaccinated, and you contract a preventable disease like measles and during its presymptomatic period you cross paths with a pre-vaccination infant, a pregnant unvaccinated mother, an active chemotherapy patient, someone who is HIV positive or just has autoimmunity system issues, you have (as a result of your decision to "care" for you and yours) given someone who is unable to protect themselves the disease.

The reverse of that situation is also deadly. If you are a pregnant, unvaccinated woman, a pre vaccination stage infant, an active chemotherapy patient, someone who is HIV positive or just has autoimmunity system issues, and you (unable to defend yourself from the disease for any of those reasons) come across a presymptomatic (or even symptomatic) disease carrier, your ability and your right to care for you and yours has been usurped by someone else's decision.

This has NOTHING to do with government, other than the fact that members of the government have opinions on the subject.   
« Last Edit: February 04, 2015, 05:22:40 pm by Luis Gonzalez »
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Offline olde north church

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #89 on: February 04, 2015, 02:39:27 pm »
The intellect who warned against people shouting "Fire" in a crowded theatre also believed "Three generations of imbeciles" were enough.
Why?  Well, because I'm a bastard, that's why.

Offline GourmetDan

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #90 on: February 04, 2015, 02:47:42 pm »

If you are not vaccinated, and you contract a preventable disease like measles and during its presymptomatic period you cross paths with a pre-vaccination infant, a pregnant unvaccinated mother, an active chemotherapy patient, someone who is HIV positive or just has autoimmunity system issues, you have (as a result of your decision to "care" for you and yours) given someone who is unable to protect themselves the disease.


What if you are vaccinated and you contract a preventable disease like measles and during its presymptomatic period you cross paths with a pre-vaccination infant, a pregnant unvaccinated mother, an active chemotherapy patient, someone who is HIV positive or just has autoimmunity system issues.  Is that OK?

Why don't you go assign blame to the person who gave you the preventable disease rather than the vaccinated/unvaccinated person who contracts the disease?

How far down the rabbit-hole does one go before assigning blame and subsequent punishment?

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Offline Bigun

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #91 on: February 04, 2015, 02:51:32 pm »
Nowadays, everything is a federal issue, dontcha know. There is no formerly-local issue into which the federal government cannot interject itself.

And that is a HUGE problem in itself!
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Offline EdinVA

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #92 on: February 04, 2015, 04:59:09 pm »

How far down the rabbit-hole does one go before assigning blame and subsequent punishment?
Blame? Punish?  yikes....

Life has risks and you can choose to accept that, take the precautions you can, and move on with your life or lock yourself away and be afraid, and teach your kids to be afraid.

There is not enough paper to hold enough laws to eliminate risk.

Offline Charlespg

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #93 on: February 05, 2015, 01:37:29 am »

                           
Thats just the most damm stupid  thing  I have seen in a while  :thud:

http://www.cdc.gov/measles/about/complications.html



http://www.jennymccarthybodycount.com/Anti-Vaccine_Body_Count/Home.html



autism was described in 1908 and  goes back for centuries 

http://prerainmanautism.blogspot.com/2009/06/wild-boy-introduction.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_of_Aveyron


Conservatives make themselves look stupid by getting wrapped up in this anti scientific  conspiracy crap

I have to  side with the state on mandatory vaccines
not vaccinating  against measles,whooping cough,etc  is child endangerment

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Offline GourmetDan

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #94 on: February 05, 2015, 01:46:45 am »
Thats just the most damm stupid  thing  I have seen in a while

Conservatives make themselves look stupid by getting wrapped up in this anti scientific  conspiracy crap

I have to  side with the state on mandatory vaccines
not vaccinating  against measles,whooping cough,etc  is child endangerment

This, therefore, is evidence that vaccinations must be forced upon all citizens by their government.

"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

"The sole purpose of the Republican Party is to serve as an ineffective alternative to the Democrat Party." - GourmetDan

Offline Charlespg

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #95 on: February 05, 2015, 02:43:50 am »
This, therefore, is evidence that vaccinations must be forced upon all citizens by their government.
Whatever it takes .personal freedom  does not mean putting others at risk or especially your kids
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Offline Dexter

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #96 on: February 05, 2015, 03:29:55 am »
This, therefore, is evidence that vaccinations must be forced upon all citizens by their government.

The majority of the public is not okay with their children being put at risk because of your bad decisions. So yes, in much the same way you are not allowed to drive drunk because it puts other people at risk, you should be forced to get vaccinated so you do not put other people (and yourself) at risk. Personal freedoms are one thing, but when you are potentially causing harm to other people it becomes something different entirely. You could always move to Africa if you have an issue with modern medicine.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2015, 03:33:25 am by Dex4974 »
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Offline Politics4us

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #97 on: February 05, 2015, 04:06:13 am »
Yes, I do know it for I looked it up, and posted it here a few days ago.

Now go study public health concepts, and herd immunization with an open mind.

Yeah, the liberal media is going to report something negative about illegal aliens...The viruses from last year came from the large herd of illegals that entered our country last year that Republican establishment people like you support. You ignored the fact that what they're immune to isn't what we're immune to.

Offline Politics4us

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #98 on: February 05, 2015, 04:07:40 am »
Gary Null has evidence that vaccines are linked with autism and diseases were declining as vaccines were introduced.

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #99 on: February 05, 2015, 04:51:03 am »
Gary Null has evidence that vaccines are linked with autism and diseases were declining as vaccines were introduced.
Who am I to believe, you and Gary Null, or the mainstream medical community?
 
I rely on my own doctor, who told me vaccines are the way to go. You and your Gary Null strike me as being fringe kooks.

The autism nonsense has been debunked, but you are of course entitled to your own opinion, however wrong it is.

Following up, I learned at www.garynull.com that he is affiliated with "Progressive Radio Network" which includes Pacifica.

Did you know that? Are you a listener of Pacifica, or a reader of their material? Do you know about them?
« Last Edit: February 05, 2015, 05:10:14 am by truth_seeker »
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