Author Topic: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations  (Read 13834 times)

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Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #50 on: February 03, 2015, 08:13:37 pm »
This is worth studying. Called Herd Immunity.  It expands upon sinkspur's remark that immunizing your child, protects my child, and vice versa.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity

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Offline Dexter

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #51 on: February 03, 2015, 08:16:33 pm »
If you're afraid for your kid, feel free to get them vaccinated as many times as you think are necessary for them to be protected.

Won't hurt your kid, vaccines are safe... right?

You're apparently having trouble understanding how vaccinations work.
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Offline Politics4us

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #52 on: February 03, 2015, 08:30:44 pm »
Vaccination rates in Latin America are about equal to the US. This measles outbreak was from Disneyland, Anaheim, USA. Too expensive for illegals.


You don't know that. First of all, they don't have the same prevalence of diseases in Mexico and other south and central American countries. Americans are immune to some illnesses while Mexicans aren't, and vice versa.

Offline GourmetDan

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #53 on: February 03, 2015, 09:04:54 pm »
You're apparently having trouble understanding how vaccinations work.

You're the one apparently having trouble understanding how vaccinations work.

If they're so safe and effective, then get yourself vaccinated as many times as it takes for you to feel safe.

If you or your medical professional aren't comfortable with that, you may want to rethink your belief in the safety of vaccines...


"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

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Offline GourmetDan

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #54 on: February 03, 2015, 09:06:04 pm »
You don't know that. First of all, they don't have the same prevalence of diseases in Mexico and other south and central American countries. Americans are immune to some illnesses while Mexicans aren't, and vice versa.

Some people believe what the W.H.O. and Latin American governments say without question.

IMO, that's worse than accepting the U.S. government at face value...

"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

"The sole purpose of the Republican Party is to serve as an ineffective alternative to the Democrat Party." - GourmetDan

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #55 on: February 03, 2015, 09:31:03 pm »
Quote
In 1974, Japan had a successful pertussis (whooping cough) vaccination program, with nearly 80% of Japanese children vaccinated. That year only 393 cases of pertussis were reported in the entire country, and there were no deaths from pertussis. But then rumors began to spread that pertussis vaccination was no longer needed and that the vaccine was not safe, and by 1976 only 10% of infants were getting vaccinated. In 1979 Japan suffered a major pertussis epidemic, with more than 13,000 cases of whooping cough and 41 deaths. In 1981 the government began vaccinating with acellular pertussis vaccine, and the number of pertussis cases dropped again.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/why.htm
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Offline GourmetDan

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #56 on: February 03, 2015, 09:38:20 pm »
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/why.htm

This, therefore, is evidence that vaccinations must be forced upon all citizens by their government...


"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

"The sole purpose of the Republican Party is to serve as an ineffective alternative to the Democrat Party." - GourmetDan

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #57 on: February 03, 2015, 10:37:26 pm »
You don't know that. First of all, they don't have the same prevalence of diseases in Mexico and other south and central American countries. Americans are immune to some illnesses while Mexicans aren't, and vice versa.
Yes, I do know it for I looked it up, and posted it here a few days ago.

Now go study public health concepts, and herd immunization with an open mind.
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline aligncare

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #58 on: February 03, 2015, 10:37:29 pm »
There's no question that a good vaccine does what it's intended to do: stimulate the immune response to produce antibodies. But there's also no question that some vaccines can cause injury and death in some individuals; there's plenty of documentation supporting that as well.

The problem comes in mandating vaccines to those who cannot be vaccinated, either because they are too young or because an immunological condition makes vaccination too risky; those who choose—or whose parents choose for them—not to get vaccinated for nonmedical reasons such as religious or personal beliefs; and those who have been vaccinated but whose immunological response is insufficient to protect them from potential infection.

There are possible deadly consequences to taking the vaccine. The risk may seem small to some of you. But if it's your child that dies or is permanently disabled from the vaccine, was the risk worth it?

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #59 on: February 03, 2015, 10:47:43 pm »
There's no question that a good vaccine does what it's intended to do: stimulate the immune response to produce antibodies. But there's also no question that some vaccines can cause injury and death in some individuals; there's plenty of documentation supporting that as well.

The problem comes in mandating vaccines to those who cannot be vaccinated, either because they are too young or because an immunological condition makes vaccination too risky; those who choose—or whose parents choose for them—not to get vaccinated for nonmedical reasons such as religious or personal beliefs; and those who have been vaccinated but whose immunological response is insufficient to protect them from potential infection.

There are possible deadly consequences to taking the vaccine. The risk may seem small to some of you. But if it's your child that dies or is permanently disabled from the vaccine, was the risk worth it?
Then I cannot understand why we even attempt to develop vaccines in the first place. Smallpox, diphtheria and polio largely eradicated in the USA with vaccines.

All for naught. We should not have done it. Why bother with clean water, either. It is probably a communist plot, too. /s

The things which gives the individual that opts out the chance to do so without consequence, are the others who went before and aided either total eradication, or nearly so.

There are legitimate medical reasons to opt out. An  example is an organ transplant patient, who has a lifelong compromised immune system.

But the medical exceptions are few and far between, and a community with a high vaccination rate gives those limited medical exception individuals the safety to presume little risks.

Read about "herd immunity" which should be understandable to people able to grasp science, logic, statistics, probability math etc.

"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline GourmetDan

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #60 on: February 03, 2015, 10:55:51 pm »
Read about "herd immunity" which should be understandable to people able to grasp science, logic, statistics, probability math etc.

This, therefore, is evidence that vaccinations must be forced upon all citizens by their government...


"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

"The sole purpose of the Republican Party is to serve as an ineffective alternative to the Democrat Party." - GourmetDan

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #61 on: February 03, 2015, 11:06:19 pm »
This, therefore, is evidence that vaccinations must be forced upon all citizens by their government...
I am fine with that. They were "forced" on me in the Army. And as a child, too. I remember people with crutches, braces and wheelchairs, from polio. I remember how grateful parents and grandparents when we got polio immunization.

Do you support "enforcement" of blood alcohol limits for driving, on all citizens by their government?

"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline aligncare

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #62 on: February 03, 2015, 11:07:08 pm »
I know all about herd immunity.

But consider this. The immune system keep the majority protected from disease and has since the beginning of life on earth.

Now they tell us in order to survive as a species or civilization we need help of vaccines. Vaccines are relatively new and I don't think the issue is settled yet. There's still plenty of area for research, such as with SIDS and with the alarming growth of autism, which some believe has a vaccine connection.

Far too many doctors today can't define what health is. Sure, they can tell you what disease is, but they can't tell you much about health. They're too busy chasing symptoms and prescribing something, anything, just to satisfy a demanding patient who wants to be given "something."

Offline GourmetDan

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #63 on: February 03, 2015, 11:12:05 pm »
This, therefore, is evidence that vaccinations must be forced upon all citizens by their government...

I am fine with that.

I know you are.  Everybody else isn't...

"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

"The sole purpose of the Republican Party is to serve as an ineffective alternative to the Democrat Party." - GourmetDan

Offline olde north church

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #64 on: February 03, 2015, 11:13:45 pm »
I know all about herd immunity.

But consider this. The immune system keep the majority protected from disease and has since the beginning of life on earth.

Now they tell us in order to survive as a species or civilization we need help of vaccines. Vaccines are relatively new and I don't think the issue is settled yet. There's still plenty of area for research, such as with SIDS and with the alarming growth of autism, which some believe has a vaccine connection.

Far too many doctors today can't define what health is. Sure, they can tell you what disease is, but they can't tell you much about health. They're too busy chasing symptoms and prescribing something, anything, just to satisfy a demanding patient who wants to be given "something."

Autism is not CAUSED by vaccines.  It is a genetic disorder.  PERIOD.
Why?  Well, because I'm a bastard, that's why.

Offline EdinVA

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #65 on: February 03, 2015, 11:16:02 pm »
This is crazy. 
You want your kids vaccinated, do it then you don't have to worry about those that don't..

Just don't presume to know all there is to know about someone else medical issues/care and use the federal government to force your views on others...

There, problem solved...

I don't understand what the issue is here....

Offline GourmetDan

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #66 on: February 03, 2015, 11:16:49 pm »
Now they tell us in order to survive as a species or civilization we need help of vaccines. Vaccines are relatively new and I don't think the issue is settled yet. There's still plenty of area for research, such as with SIDS and with the alarming growth of autism, which some believe has a vaccine connection.

The fact that they won't give them to immuno-suppressed individuals tells you there is some risk.

The fact that they don't test people's immune-system before administering tells you that some people will suffer adverse consequences and it's like russian roullette.

At this point, vaccines are more about profits for big-pharma than public health...


"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

"The sole purpose of the Republican Party is to serve as an ineffective alternative to the Democrat Party." - GourmetDan

Offline olde north church

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #67 on: February 03, 2015, 11:17:49 pm »
BTW, this is the type of nonsense that generally lives on TOS.  1 child out of 100,000 has a negative reaction from a vaccination, unless an allergy exists.  It's not the age group peers who get infected by the non-immunized, it's the infants who get infected by the non-immunized.
Why?  Well, because I'm a bastard, that's why.

Offline GourmetDan

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #68 on: February 03, 2015, 11:20:32 pm »
This is crazy. 
You want your kids vaccinated, do it then you don't have to worry about those that don't..

Actually, that's what the herd immunity claim is about.

The vaccines aren't always effective, so even if you are vaccinated you can still get the disease.

There is risk to taking the vaccines, otherwise you could take them as often as you wanted.

Still some want the government to force everyone to take them so they feel protected.

"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

"The sole purpose of the Republican Party is to serve as an ineffective alternative to the Democrat Party." - GourmetDan

Offline GourmetDan

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #69 on: February 03, 2015, 11:21:53 pm »
BTW, this is the type of nonsense that generally lives on TOS.  1 child out of 100,000 has a negative reaction from a vaccination, unless an allergy exists.  It's not the age group peers who get infected by the non-immunized, it's the infants who get infected by the non-immunized.

Or those who get the disease from the vaccine or those who were vaccinated but are still susceptible to the disease.


"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

"The sole purpose of the Republican Party is to serve as an ineffective alternative to the Democrat Party." - GourmetDan

Offline aligncare

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #70 on: February 03, 2015, 11:24:30 pm »
BTW, this is the type of nonsense that generally lives on TOS.  1 child out of 100,000 has a negative reaction from a vaccination, unless an allergy exists.  It's not the age group peers who get infected by the non-immunized, it's the infants who get infected by the non-immunized.

You might change your tune if it was your child that died after suffering a severe reaction. It's all fine in the abstract, but when it's your child, it's no longer abstract.

Offline EdinVA

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #71 on: February 03, 2015, 11:28:41 pm »
Actually, that's what the herd immunity claim is about.

The vaccines aren't always effective, so even if you are vaccinated you can still get the disease.

There is risk to taking the vaccines, otherwise you could take them as often as you wanted.

Still some want the government to force everyone to take them so they feel protected.

I know Dan.... just drives me crazy because this is what goes on at capital hill and is precisely the reason nothing of real value gets accomplished.

Offline GourmetDan

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #72 on: February 03, 2015, 11:33:05 pm »
I know Dan.... just drives me crazy because this is what goes on at capital hill and is precisely the reason nothing of real value gets accomplished.

Unfortunately, the craziness isn't confined to Capitol Hill.

There are plenty around here who are quite comfortable with the government forcing people to be immunized against their will...

"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." - Ecclesiastes 10:2

"The sole purpose of the Republican Party is to serve as an ineffective alternative to the Democrat Party." - GourmetDan

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #73 on: February 03, 2015, 11:49:26 pm »
You might change your tune if it was your child that died after suffering a severe reaction. It's all fine in the abstract, but when it's your child, it's no longer abstract.

"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, i have others." - Groucho Marx

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Chris Christie is getting ripped for his 'insane' comment on vaccinations
« Reply #74 on: February 03, 2015, 11:50:21 pm »
I know all about herd immunity.

But consider this. The immune system keep the majority protected from disease and has since the beginning of life on earth.

Now they tell us in order to survive as a species or civilization we need help of vaccines. Vaccines are relatively new and I don't think the issue is settled yet. There's still plenty of area for research, such as with SIDS and with the alarming growth of autism, which some believe has a vaccine connection.

Far too many doctors today can't define what health is. Sure, they can tell you what disease is, but they can't tell you much about health. They're too busy chasing symptoms and prescribing something, anything, just to satisfy a demanding patient who wants to be given "something."
Unsettled with regard to polio, diphtheria, small pox, tuberculosis? I must have missed the "unsettled" nature of those serious public health threats, all nearly eradicated by vaccinations. Apparently the human immune system failed to protect people, until we used vaccines.

My grandfather lost 3 siblings to diphtheria during the 1880s and 1890s, in Dakota Territory. At the time they "treated" diphtheria by gargling kerosene.

As school kids, my wife and I remember people with braces, crutches and wheelchairs for polio. And we remember how grateful people were, about the polio vaccine.

But alas, things we learned the hard way, are being taken for granted and then lost, as we regress into broad public ignorance.
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln