Author Topic: Politico: Tea Party, Down But Not Out, Plans 2016 Comeback  (Read 18944 times)

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Online libertybele

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Re: Politico: Tea Party, Down But Not Out, Plans 2016 Comeback
« Reply #75 on: January 23, 2015, 12:20:10 am »
"I Believe in the United States of America as a Government of the people, for the people; whose just powers are derived from the consent of the governed; a democracy in a republic; a sovereign nation of many sovereign states; a perfect union, one and inseparable; established upon those principles of freedom, equality, justice, and humanity for which American patriots sacrificed their lives and fortunes.  I therefore believe it is my duty to my country to love it; to support is Constitution; to obey its laws; to respect its flag; and to defend it against all enemies." - William Tyler Page     :patriot:
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: Politico: Tea Party, Down But Not Out, Plans 2016 Comeback
« Reply #76 on: January 23, 2015, 12:38:11 am »
"I Believe in the United States of America as a Government of the people, for the people;

Unless the people want a prescription drug benefit, or federal hurricane relief, or food stamps for the poor...then the people can get bent.

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Politico: Tea Party, Down But Not Out, Plans 2016 Comeback
« Reply #77 on: January 23, 2015, 12:39:41 am »
"I Believe in the United States of America as a Government of the people, for the people; whose just powers are derived from the consent of the governed; a democracy in a republic; a sovereign nation of many sovereign states; a perfect union, one and inseparable; established upon those principles of freedom, equality, justice, and humanity for which American patriots sacrificed their lives and fortunes.  I therefore believe it is my duty to my country to love it; to support is Constitution; to obey its laws; to respect its flag; and to defend it against all enemies." - William Tyler Page     :patriot:

"... of the people, for the people.. "

ALL the people.

Not just conservatives. Right?
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, i have others." - Groucho Marx

Offline EdinVA

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Re: Politico: Tea Party, Down But Not Out, Plans 2016 Comeback
« Reply #78 on: January 23, 2015, 12:58:10 am »
Unless the people want a prescription drug benefit, or federal hurricane relief, or food stamps for the poor...then the people can get bent.

So you are ok with throwing me in prison if I don't want to pay for your drugs or buy you beer with MY food stamps?
Don't be ridiculous, everyone understands things like disaster support as long as it is not abused.

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Politico: Tea Party, Down But Not Out, Plans 2016 Comeback
« Reply #79 on: January 23, 2015, 01:25:51 am »
I guess I'm just one of those nasty conservatives who have ruined the Republican party and need to become more liberal so that I too am more politically correct!  Darn.  Just when I thought I had a handle on things.

I'm not the least bit liberal.
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, i have others." - Groucho Marx

Offline EdinVA

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Re: Politico: Tea Party, Down But Not Out, Plans 2016 Comeback
« Reply #80 on: January 23, 2015, 01:26:56 am »
"... of the people, for the people.. "

ALL the people.

Not just conservatives. Right?

As long as it is consistent with the constitution and standing legislative processes and MY elected representatives are representing his constituents fairly.

Online libertybele

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Re: Politico: Tea Party, Down But Not Out, Plans 2016 Comeback
« Reply #81 on: January 23, 2015, 01:46:15 am »
As long as it is consistent with the constitution and standing legislative processes and MY elected representatives are representing his constituents fairly.

Exactly.   :amen:
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Politico: Tea Party, Down But Not Out, Plans 2016 Comeback
« Reply #82 on: January 23, 2015, 01:58:41 am »
As long as it is consistent with the constitution and standing legislative processes and MY elected representatives are representing his constituents fairly.

Did you support the Federal DoMA?
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, i have others." - Groucho Marx

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Politico: Tea Party, Down But Not Out, Plans 2016 Comeback
« Reply #83 on: January 23, 2015, 02:03:40 am »
So you are ok with throwing me in prison if I don't want to pay for your drugs or buy you beer with MY food stamps?
Don't be ridiculous, everyone understands things like disaster support as long as it is not abused.

Where in the Constitution is the Federal government granted the power to create FEMA, or the a president given the power to declare a "National emergency"?
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, i have others." - Groucho Marx

Offline EC

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Re: Politico: Tea Party, Down But Not Out, Plans 2016 Comeback
« Reply #84 on: January 23, 2015, 02:06:39 am »
Where in the Constitution is the Federal government granted the power to create FEMA, or the a president given the power to declare a "National emergency"?

Where is it specifically opposed?
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Offline EdinVA

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Re: Politico: Tea Party, Down But Not Out, Plans 2016 Comeback
« Reply #85 on: January 23, 2015, 02:09:27 am »
Where in the Constitution is the Federal government granted the power to create FEMA, or the a president given the power to declare a "National emergency"?

Oooo, we like to put words in peoples mouths... I never said anything about FEMA nor anything about National Emergency.
I said disaster support is something everyone would agree on as long as it was not abused.
I never specified how it would be delivered or under what conditions.

Offline Carling

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Re: Politico: Tea Party, Down But Not Out, Plans 2016 Comeback
« Reply #86 on: January 23, 2015, 02:09:46 am »
Where in the Constitution is the Federal government granted the power to create FEMA, or the a president given the power to declare a "National emergency"?

Nowhere, of course.

FEMA, DoMA, and DHS should be three of the biggest concerns for strict constitutional followers. 

States should be first-responders, as the Constitution spells out in the 10th amendment.  Legislating against abortion/marriage/etc. should also be a states' issue, individually.   :shrug:
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Offline Carling

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Re: Politico: Tea Party, Down But Not Out, Plans 2016 Comeback
« Reply #87 on: January 23, 2015, 02:11:20 am »

I said disaster support is something everyone would agree on as long as it was not abused.


Would you say FEMA and DHS operate at the federal level without abuse?  Why didn't Obama declare Texas a recipient for relief when wildfires were burning the entire state a few years ago?  Texans' tax dollars pay for emergency relief; why didn't they receive it?
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Offline EdinVA

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Re: Politico: Tea Party, Down But Not Out, Plans 2016 Comeback
« Reply #88 on: January 23, 2015, 02:19:03 am »
Would you say FEMA and DHS operate at the federal level without abuse?  Why didn't Obama declare Texas a recipient for relief when wildfires were burning the entire state a few years ago?  Texans' tax dollars pay for emergency relief; why didn't they receive it?

Help me out here... What is your point?
The entire federal bungle is ripe with abuse and corruption from the white house on down...
Is there a problem with trying to get a handle on some of it?

Online Bigun

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Re: Politico: Tea Party, Down But Not Out, Plans 2016 Comeback
« Reply #89 on: January 23, 2015, 02:22:02 am »
Nowhere, of course.

FEMA, DoMA, and DHS should be three of the biggest concerns for strict constitutional followers. 

States should be first-responders, as the Constitution spells out in the 10th amendment.  Legislating against abortion/marriage/etc. should also be a states' issue, individually.   :shrug:

BINGO!!!  :patriot:
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"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
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Offline EdinVA

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Re: Politico: Tea Party, Down But Not Out, Plans 2016 Comeback
« Reply #90 on: January 23, 2015, 02:22:59 am »
Nowhere, of course.

FEMA, DoMA, and DHS should be three of the biggest concerns for strict constitutional followers. 

States should be first-responders, as the Constitution spells out in the 10th amendment.  Legislating against abortion/marriage/etc. should also be a states' issue, individually.   :shrug:

Are you trying to say that because our legislators and executives purchased votes by establishing these monstrosities that we should do it again?
I agree that states should ALWAYS be the first line of response.  What do you do if it overwhelms the states, just let'em die?
I believe that the Military would do a better job of responding, as they do world wide now and do away with those other agencies.

Offline Carling

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Re: Politico: Tea Party, Down But Not Out, Plans 2016 Comeback
« Reply #91 on: January 23, 2015, 02:24:11 am »
Help me out here... What is your point?
The entire federal bungle is ripe with abuse and corruption from the white house on down...
Is there a problem with trying to get a handle on some of it?

The point is that the Constitution doesn't give the federal government the right to have a disaster relief department.  It should be covered under the 10th Amendment, since it isn't mentioned in the Constitution, meaning it falls to the states.

My point is that this is a philosophical debate, and if we conservatives are really Constitutionalists, then we should not have federal programs that aren't directly spelled out in the Constitution.

It's where DoMA comes in for me, primarily, and it's where I see hypocrisy in the views of some of us in the GOP/conservative movement.

Not directed at you at all, Ed, and I apologize if it appears I assumed your own beliefs.   :patriot:
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Offline EdinVA

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Re: Politico: Tea Party, Down But Not Out, Plans 2016 Comeback
« Reply #92 on: January 23, 2015, 02:25:06 am »
Would you say FEMA and DHS operate at the federal level without abuse?  Why didn't Obama declare Texas a recipient for relief when wildfires were burning the entire state a few years ago?  Texans' tax dollars pay for emergency relief; why didn't they receive it?

Because he wanted to punish texas for not voting for him... simple
He did the same to Virginia when we had our little earthquake a few years ago.
Nothing new here...

Offline Carling

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Re: Politico: Tea Party, Down But Not Out, Plans 2016 Comeback
« Reply #93 on: January 23, 2015, 02:25:43 am »
Are you trying to say that because our legislators and executives purchased votes by establishing these monstrosities that we should do it again?
I agree that states should ALWAYS be the first line of response.  What do you do if it overwhelms the states, just let'em die?
I believe that the Military would do a better job of responding, as they do world wide now and do away with those other agencies.

I agree with you 100%.  Please read my previous post to you clarifying what I was posting about!  As it is, I am headed to my oldest daughter's orchestra concert now (she plays cello), and have to leave.  Thanks for the conversation!   :beer:
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Offline EdinVA

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Re: Politico: Tea Party, Down But Not Out, Plans 2016 Comeback
« Reply #94 on: January 23, 2015, 02:37:33 am »
The point is that the Constitution doesn't give the federal government the right to have a disaster relief department.  It should be covered under the 10th Amendment, since it isn't mentioned in the Constitution, meaning it falls to the states.

My point is that this is a philosophical debate, and if we conservatives are really Constitutionalists, then we should not have federal programs that aren't directly spelled out in the Constitution.

It's where DoMA comes in for me, primarily, and it's where I see hypocrisy in the views of some of us in the GOP/conservative movement.

Not directed at you at all, Ed, and I apologize if it appears I assumed your own beliefs.   :patriot:

So this was a test... I see..  :chairbang:

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: Politico: Tea Party, Down But Not Out, Plans 2016 Comeback
« Reply #95 on: January 23, 2015, 03:38:53 am »
So you are ok with throwing me in prison if I don't want to pay for your drugs or buy you beer with MY food stamps?
I guess so, but it really isn't up to me, it's up to the other 100 million + voters.  That is what "for the people" means.

Quote
Don't be ridiculous, everyone understands things like disaster support as long as it is not abused.

oh?  http://dailycurrant.com/2013/05/22/republicans-introduce-bill-to-abolish-fema/

Quote
Quote
In a speech on the Senate floor the bill's sponsor, Sen. Rand Paul of Kentucky, argued that despite the recent spate of tragic tornado strikes in Oklahoma, disaster relief shouldn't be the federal government's business.

"FEMA is just one more example of Big Government run amok," he explained. "Sure it sounds good. Who wouldn't be against so-called disaster relief? But we're paying for this program with money borrowed from China, driving our country deeper into debt. That's the real disaster.

"I suppose people need help in times like these. And if individual states want to set up disaster relief agencies, that's fine. But why should taxpayers in other states be forced to pay? Kentucky doesn't have earthquakes. Kentucky doesn't have hurricanes. Kentucky doesn't have tornadoes, I don't think. So why are we footing the bill for this stuff?"

My mistake...sorry to be "ridiculous."

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Re: Politico: Tea Party, Down But Not Out, Plans 2016 Comeback
« Reply #96 on: January 23, 2015, 03:43:23 am »
The point is that the Constitution doesn't give the federal government the right to have a disaster relief department.  It should be covered under the 10th Amendment, since it isn't mentioned in the Constitution, meaning it falls to the states.

My point is that this is a philosophical debate, and if we conservatives are really Constitutionalists, then we should not have federal programs that aren't directly spelled out in the Constitution.

It's where DoMA comes in for me, primarily, and it's where I see hypocrisy in the views of some of us in the GOP/conservative movement.

Not directed at you at all, Ed, and I apologize if it appears I assumed your own beliefs.   :patriot:

Constitution, Article I, section 8, clause 1:  The Congress shall have power to ... provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States ...;

I'm not sure how one excises just disaster relief from the concept of "general welfare".

Offline speekinout

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Re: Politico: Tea Party, Down But Not Out, Plans 2016 Comeback
« Reply #97 on: January 23, 2015, 03:57:29 am »
Each representative is only responsible to his/her constituents, no one else, at least that is what is supposed to happen.  We should only be criticizing the other guys representative IF they have broken the law or not met their oath of office.  Otherwise, we are demanding that all republicans/democrats vote the same, which is what the constant chant of RINO type comments means.  Would you like someone from NY telling your representative/senator how to vote?

It is very frustrating and I have committed the same "sins" myself so I am pointing the finger at me too....

That's a very good point. Each representative and senator is responsible to his or her constituents. A GOPer from a blue state will sometimes have to vote for a liberal idea in order to do that, and a dim from a red state will also sometimes have to vote for a conservative idea. And even among states, conservatives from one state might not agree with conservatives from another. For a prime example, fiscal conservatives and social conservatives will often have different priorities.

But if anything is going to get done, all of the elected officials will at times have to trade votes. They'll support an idea from one state in return for an important vote for their own. I doubt that anyone really wants to keep the status quo, so we really have to want our elected representatives and senators to make decisions about when to trade votes. We might not always agree with the choices they make, but if we "throw them out", the next one might not make any better choices.

And the President should, IMO, work with Congress to find solutions that reflect what most of the states want. Not what most of the people want, because this is, after all, a representative republic.

Discussing ideas and actions we'd like to see happen seems to me to be more productive than talking about individual congress members, esp. ones who are not from our own states. I have had some in my state I'd like to see stay for 50 or 60 years, because they represent my state quite well. There are others I'd like to see dumped ASAP. But people from other states might not see it the same way as I do, even ones who are on the same part of the political spectrum as I am.


Offline Carling

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Re: Politico: Tea Party, Down But Not Out, Plans 2016 Comeback
« Reply #98 on: January 23, 2015, 04:08:01 am »


oh?  http://dailycurrant.com/2013/05/22/republicans-introduce-bill-to-abolish-fema/


That's a SATIRE site.  Come on, man.  Rand Paul never said those things.  I typically look forward to your posts, but you got WHOOSHED on that one, Once-ler!   :thud:
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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: Politico: Tea Party, Down But Not Out, Plans 2016 Comeback
« Reply #99 on: January 23, 2015, 04:12:11 am »
Where is it specifically opposed?

The Constitution is a specific grant of powers. In other words, powers not granted to any branch of the Federal government by the Constitution do not exist. The Federal government does not gain a power by the mere fact that it is not denied to it by the Constitution.

If we're to base whether or not something is Constitutional simply based on whether or not that action is forbidden by the Constitution, then we have no Constitution.

Here's the text of the Tenth Amendment:

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people."

Reading that tells you that the Federal government has a distinct set of delegated powers within whose boundaries they must remain, and that any other power beyond those that are not specifically either granted to the Federal government or denied to the States, belong solely to the States or the people.

It doesn't get much clearer than that.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2015, 06:35:12 am by Luis Gonzalez »
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