Cruz: GOP 'Will Get Walloped' Without Action on Obamacare

[Bigun]

I don't have a problem with anyone disagreeing with me.

Sorry but that is patently untrue! You DO have a problem with anyone disagreeing with you to the degree that you will come back days after a thread has become inactive just to get the last word in!

As to the post that started this exchange:

Here is a quote of the very first sentence of that post:

Obamacare cannot be repealed by the GOP, nor should it be repealed by the GOP.

I consider that to be just exactly what I called it in my response and will tell you that IMHO the ONLY reason they aren't pursuing that is that they are VERY afraid that if they did the votes to override the president's veto would magically appear and thus deprive them of the issue going forward!

[GourmetDan]

I don't have a problem with anyone disagreeing with me.  I have a problem with people whose entire repertoire consists of insults, vitriol and polemics absent of any substance.

You mean like this?

Dan, you're another piece of worthless flotsam in this forum.

Why of course not... you did that one therefore it is justified.

Or how about this one?

I expect people will disagree with me, but being dismissed without a retort is the practice of rhetorical midgets.

Why of course not... you did that one therefore it is justified.

Or how about this one?

There's a number of them inhabiting this forum but you may have the distinct honor of being the tallest one.

Why of course not... you did that one therefore it is justified.


Or like this one?

Fine, but try real hard (at the risk of straining your already stretched intellect) to tell me why my post is bulls#it.

Why of course not... you did that one therefore it is justified.

Or how about this one?

I took the time to compose a post with a concrete set of ideas in a coherent manner, try lifting your knuckles off the dirt when you post a response to it.

Why of course not... you did that one therefore it is justified...

[Fishrrman]

Luis wrote above:
[[ Governing is not about symbolic gestures.
It's about getting things done. ]]

Fishrrman's credo:
"Reality is what it is. It is not what we believe it to be."

There once was a time when government (at least ours) may have been "about getting things done."

Today, the role of government is to promote the appearance of getting things done.

[Fishrrman]

Once-Ler asks Americanparatrooper above:
[[ Was there a time you were interested in seeing another RINO elected to office? ]]

Well, I voted for McCain, and I voted for Romney.

I guess I was interested...at least back then!

(Welcome, paratrooper!)

[Oceander]

The first thing the GOP needs to do viz. Obamacare is to come up with a reasonably well-developed alternative.  The fact of the matter is, Obamacare didn't spring up unbidden to spoil an otherwise perfectly pleasant party; it gained traction because there were serious problems with the health care system in the US and when it was introduced it was basically the only comprehensive "solution" on offer.

The GOP will not find a lot of support for repealing Obamacare unless it has something else to offer in its place, something that addresses the dysfunction that existed prior to Obamacare, as well as the new problems created by Obamacare.  Right now the GOP is simply going with the negative - anti-Obamacare - and that simply leaves it open to the accusation that all the GOP cares about is going back to the bad old days.

The fact of the matter is this:  for at least the next two years the GOP cannot repeal Obamacare, or even substantial portions of it, because Obuttocks will veto each and every such bill.  That being said, the creative way to respond to that is to use the next two years to start running positive alternatives to Obamacare up the flagpole to see what Americans think about those various alternatives.  Start passing bills that affirmatively address the problems that existed before Obamacare, not just bills that repeal Obamacare, so that the GOP can start presenting various aspects of an affirmative replacement for Obamacare now to gauge how Americans will react, with the comfort of knowing that the GOP won't have to commit to something that turns out to be a dud because Obama will dutifully veto whatever the GOP sends to his desk for signature.

[EC]

Your idea is right - something did need be done about health care and still will need doing when Obamacare is repealed. I am a little nervous of the idea of, if I read you right, effectively making policy by public opinion. That rarely works out well in the medium or long term.

[EdinVA]

Your idea is right - something did need be done about health care and still will need doing when Obamacare is repealed. I am a little nervous of the idea of, if I read you right, effectively making policy by public opinion. That rarely works out well in the medium or long term.

There WAS nothing wrong with our healthcare system, but there is now.
Obamacare has nothing to do with healthcare, it is the federal take over of the insurance industry which was "administered" by states.

The feds have brought no value to the issue and have in fact destroyed it.

[Bigun]

There WAS nothing wrong with our healthcare system, but there is now.
Obamacare has nothing to do with healthcare, it is the federal take over of the insurance industry which was "administered" by states.

The feds have brought no value to the issue and have in fact destroyed it.

ABSOLUTELY right Ed! Obamacare is not and never has been about healthcare! It is really all about cradle to grave CONTROL of the great unwashed!

And, as a side benefit, it relieved the big unions of a HUGE financial burden that they would never have been able to handle otherwise!

[speekinout]

There WAS nothing wrong with our healthcare system, but there is now.
Obamacare has nothing to do with healthcare, it is the federal take over of the insurance industry which was "administered" by states.

The feds have brought no value to the issue and have in fact destroyed it.

There were things wrong with our health care system. First of all, too many had ins. tied to their jobs, so when they lost their job, they also lost their ins. Secondly, people with pre-existing conditions were pretty much priced out of the ins. market. There were a lot of people without ins. due to those things, plus other factors (like low income, but not low enough for Medicaid). There were also growing numbers of doctors who refused to see more Medicaid or Medicare patients.

0bamacare didn't fix any of those problems, but it promised to fix them, so many people who had problems getting ins. (and therefore health care, because private pay rates are astronomical) were willing to believe the promises they heard.

[libertybele]

I guess that would depend on who you ask?

If you are asking me the answer is yes! I believe I do!

Bigun has my vote!   

[libertybele]

The first thing the GOP needs to do viz. Obamacare is to come up with a reasonably well-developed alternative.  The fact of the matter is, Obamacare didn't spring up unbidden to spoil an otherwise perfectly pleasant party; it gained traction because there were serious problems with the health care system in the US and when it was introduced it was basically the only comprehensive "solution" on offer.

The GOP will not find a lot of support for repealing Obamacare unless it has something else to offer in its place, something that addresses the dysfunction that existed prior to Obamacare, as well as the new problems created by Obamacare.  Right now the GOP is simply going with the negative - anti-Obamacare - and that simply leaves it open to the accusation that all the GOP cares about is going back to the bad old days.

The fact of the matter is this:  for at least the next two years the GOP cannot repeal Obamacare, or even substantial portions of it, because Obuttocks will veto each and every such bill.  That being said, the creative way to respond to that is to use the next two years to start running positive alternatives to Obamacare up the flagpole to see what Americans think about those various alternatives.  Start passing bills that affirmatively address the problems that existed before Obamacare, not just bills that repeal Obamacare, so that the GOP can start presenting various aspects of an affirmative replacement for Obamacare now to gauge how Americans will react, with the comfort of knowing that the GOP won't have to commit to something that turns out to be a dud because Obama will dutifully veto whatever the GOP sends to his desk for signature.

The first thing the GOP needs to do is to stop the Obama agenda period ... by whatever means necessary.  They cannot afford to take a weakened stance nor can they afford to try to appease the moderates or the liberals.  IF they do, they are toast.

[EdinVA]

There were things wrong with our health care system. First of all, too many had ins. tied to their jobs, so when they lost their job, they also lost their ins. Secondly, people with pre-existing conditions were pretty much priced out of the ins. market. There were a lot of people without ins. due to those things, plus other factors (like low income, but not low enough for Medicaid). There were also growing numbers of doctors who refused to see more Medicaid or Medicare patients.

0bamacare didn't fix any of those problems, but it promised to fix them, so many people who had problems getting ins. (and therefore health care, because private pay rates are astronomical) were willing to believe the promises they heard.

Not sure I agree that all of those are "problems" but it was never the intent of obamacare to fix those problems, it was a move by marxists to takeover a significant portion of our economy.  I do agree with one point, a person should never have to choose between bankruptcy and death due to medical costs.  There must be a better way to handle this but it needs to be done at the state level.

[EdinVA]

The first thing the GOP needs to do is to stop the Obama agenda period ... by whatever means necessary.  They cannot afford to take a weakened stance nor can they afford to try to appease the moderates or the liberals.  IF they do, they are toast.

Lets hope the GOP fights obama's agenda more aggressively than they fight the war on terror, if not, we have a problem.

[libertybele]

Lets hope the GOP fights obama's agenda more aggressively than they fight the war on terror, if not, we have a problem.

???? Wow.  The GOP aggressively fighting the war on terror?  #1) Last time I checked OBAMA is the Commander In Chief and leads our military  #2) Perhaps most importantly to keep in mind; OBAMA has bypassed or ignored Congress on several military decisions   #3) OBAMA pulled our troops out of the Middle East prematurely even though he was told not to by his military advisers #4) Both Romney and Palin warned OBAMA of the consequences of early troop withdrawal that turned out to be true. 

The problem we have is that the GOPe and Dems have allowed OBAMA to do whatever the hell he wants bypassing Congress whenever convenient.  The voters clearly rejected OBAMA policy during the mid term elections.  Perhaps, I need to make my statement a little more specific; IF the GOP cannot stop the OBAMA agenda, America (not just the GOP) has a huge problem.

[EdinVA]

???? Wow.  The GOP aggressively fighting the war on terror?  #1) Last time I checked OBAMA is the Commander In Chief and leads our military  #2) Perhaps most importantly to keep in mind; OBAMA has bypassed or ignored Congress on several military decisions   #3) OBAMA pulled our troops out of the Middle East prematurely even though he was told not to by his military advisers #4) Both Romney and Palin warned OBAMA of the consequences of early troop withdrawal that turned out to be true. 

The problem we have is that the GOPe and Dems have allowed OBAMA to do whatever the hell he wants bypassing Congress whenever convenient.  The voters clearly rejected OBAMA policy during the mid term elections.  Perhaps, I need to make my statement a little more specific; IF the GOP cannot stop the OBAMA agenda, America (not just the GOP) has a huge problem.

Bush was CIC for 8 years and accomplished little.  I am hoping the new GOP majority will stand up and somehow force the country, with or without BO, to either fight this to win it, or get the hell out of it.  Sitting on the fence does nothing but get our troops hurt.

But back to the subject, I was agreeing with your point... :)

[speekinout]

Not sure I agree that all of those are "problems" but it was never the intent of obamacare to fix those problems, it was a move by marxists to takeover a significant portion of our economy.  I do agree with one point, a person should never have to choose between bankruptcy and death due to medical costs.  There must be a better way to handle this but it needs to be done at the state level.

Those are problems to the people who couldn't get insurance and couldn't afford medical care. And there were a lot of people in that category. The numbers differ depending on who you ask, but it's probably at least 14% of the population that had problems. And, yes, 0bamacare did say they'd fix those problems.

I'd rather see the gov't turn responsibility for medical care over to the individual rather than just move it to a different level of gov't.