Retired Army Lieutenant Colonel: You Deal with Terrorists by Leaving behind Their ‘Crying Widows’

[Dexter]

Fair enough, I misunderstood you.   

If we are not currently doing these things--murdering & relentlessly bombing--what, then, is the Islamic world's beef with the West, and the US specifically?  Wouldn't the current lack of murder & bombing mean that terrorism achieved its goal and there is no reason to continue terror attacks against the West?

They believe we are way too involved in their world and their politics. They want us to leave the Middle East and to stop getting involved and taking sides. There is no rational reason to commit acts of terror against the west; radical Islamists are not rational people. They hate us, and unfortunately when we are responsible for homes/towns/families being destroyed it becomes easy to convince young people that we are everything that is wrong with the world. If we could destroy the radical Islamist mindset in one fell swoop I would completely support that, but we can't. There is no way to stop radical Islam outside of flattening entire countries, and that is what would be murder. It is my belief that our best course of action is to give them exactly what they want and leave forever.

[musiclady]

I will try to be more clear in the future. I had no idea that what I said was so incredibly complicated and difficult to understand.

I love it when your elitism rears its unattractive head.........

[Relic]

It is my belief that our best course of action is to give them exactly what they want and leave forever.

Just give Hitler Poland, and there will be peace in our time!

[Dexter]

Just give Hitler Poland, and there will be peace in our time!

Groups like ISIS are hated in the Middle East. Most of the civilian population hates them and most of the neighboring countries hate them. Why is it our responsibility to deal with it? Why is it always our responsibility to deal with it? There are plenty of good and level headed people in the Middle East; they should be able to sort out their own problems.

[Relic]

Groups like ISIS are hated in the Middle East. Most of the civilian population hates them and most of the neighboring countries hate them. Why is it our responsibility to deal with it? Why is it always our responsibility to deal with it? There are plenty of good and level headed people in the Middle East; they should be able to sort out their own problems.

To use a cliché, with great power comes great responsibility.

If that one doesn't resonate with you, try this. Look back at 1930s Europe. Hitler wasn't liked. After Hitler annexed Austria and took Czechoslovakia, he was not only hated, but feared. Kind of like ISIS is now. So, Hitler takes Poland, and the world says, well, sorry about your luck Polish people, but as long as that's all he wants, we're good. All the while, Hitler builds his machine. When it finally became a problem we HAD to deal with, it cost us, and the rest of the world dearly.

We can pay now, or pay later, but we will surely pay.

[Dexter]

To use a cliché, with great power comes great responsibility.

If that one doesn't resonate with you, try this. Look back at 1930s Europe. Hitler wasn't liked. After Hitler annexed Austria and took Czechoslovakia, he was not only hated, but feared. Kind of like ISIS is now. So, Hitler takes Poland, and the world says, well, sorry about your luck Polish people, but as long as that's all he wants, we're good. All the while, Hitler builds his machine. When it finally became a problem we HAD to deal with, it cost us, and the rest of the world dearly.

We can pay now, or pay later, but we will surely pay.

It is not our responsibility to right every wrong in the world, and we couldn't afford to do it even if we wanted to. ISIS is nothing but a band of extremists. Hitler had an entire country with infrastructure and industrial capability at his back. The ISIS threat is nothing even remotely close to the threat Hitler posed. Level headed people in the Middle East are more than capable of dealing with ISIS on their own.

[rb224315]

Groups like ISIS are hated in the Middle East. Most of the civilian population hates them and most of the neighboring countries hate them.

They are hated by the other, less powerful sects of Islam.  Don't think for a moment that if those sects could swap places (in terms of military power) with ISIS, et. al. that they wouldn't do so.  Those other sects would be doing the same things.

Why is it our responsibility to deal with it? Why is it always our responsibility to deal with it? There are plenty of good and level headed people in the Middle East; they should be able to sort out their own problems.

These are all good questions which should be addressed, but they have nothing to do with my point, which is that Islam is the common thread that ties together the vast majority of terrorist acts today.  To ignore this fact is silly and ultimately dangerous.

Terrorism, ISIS, etc. have nothing whatsoever to do with the actions of the West, except for our rejection of Islam.  Everything else--"relentlessly bombing", claims of indiscriminate murder, political meddling, being the "world's policeman", etc.--are just excuses.  The Islamic world knows it can depend on the Western Left to pick up these memes and defend Islam in Western societies.

[Relic]

It is not our responsibility to right every wrong in the world, and we couldn't afford to do it even if it was. ISIS is nothing but a band of extremists. Hitler had an entire country with infrastructure and industrial capability at his back. The ISIS threat is nothing even remotely close to the threat Hitler posed. Level headed people in the Middle East are more than capable of dealing with ISIS on their own.

Level headed people in the Middle East? Wait, how long has the Middle East been peaceful and prosperous with those level headed people in charge?

19 people with box cutters brought down 2 huge buildings in New York. Your president said ISIS is the JV, then he said, ooops, I was kidding. Hitler started out with a country that was gutted by the treaty of Versailles. It takes time to build a war machine.

Try this out, it comes from a trusted source:
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/06/12/world/middleeast/the-iraq-isis-conflict-in-maps-photos-and-video.html?_r=0

It's cheaper, in terms of blood and gold, to deal with ISIS now. If we wait, the price goes up. Either you ignore, or don't understand history.

[Dexter]

Level headed people in the Middle East? Wait, how long has the Middle East been peaceful and prosperous with those level headed people in charge?

How long has the Middle East been peaceful with our intervention? It took Europe almost destroying itself completely before they finally decided they were done killing each other.

19 people with box cutters brought down 2 huge buildings in New York. Your president said ISIS is the JV, then he said, ooops, I was kidding. Hitler started out with a country that was gutted by the treaty of Versailles. It takes time to build a war machine.

Try this out, it comes from a trusted source:
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/06/12/world/middleeast/the-iraq-isis-conflict-in-maps-photos-and-video.html?_r=0

It's cheaper, in terms of blood and gold, to deal with ISIS now. If we wait, the price goes up. Either you ignore, or don't understand history.

The problem is it doesn't end with ISIS. There is always another reason for us to be involved in the Middle East; it never ends, and I don't think it ever will end until we finally put our foot down.

[GourmetDan]

It's cheaper, in terms of blood and gold, to deal with ISIS now. If we wait, the price goes up. Either you ignore, or don't understand history.

Just as WW2 was planned... so is WW3...

"The Second World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences between the Fascists and the political Zionists. This war must be brought about so that Nazism is destroyed and that the political Zionism be strong enough to institute a sovereign state of Israel in Palestine. During the Second World War, International Communism must become strong enough in order to balance Christendom, which would be then restrained and held in check until the time when we would need it for the final social cataclysm."

"The Third World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences caused by the "agentur" of the "Illuminati" between the political Zionists and the leaders of Islamic World. The war must be conducted in such a way that Islam (the Moslem Arabic World) and political Zionism (the State of Israel) mutually destroy each other. Meanwhile the other nations, once more divided on this issue will be constrained to fight to the point of complete physical, moral, spiritual and economical exhaustion…"

[Dexter]

These are all good questions which should be addressed, but they have nothing to do with my point, which is that Islam is the common thread that ties together the vast majority of terrorist acts today.  To ignore this fact is silly and ultimately dangerous.

I am not ignoring that fact. I'm asking you what you want to do about that fact. What is the solution? Should we just kill everybody?

[musiclady]

It is not our responsibility to right every wrong in the world, and we couldn't afford to do it even if we wanted to. ISIS is nothing but a band of extremists. Hitler had an entire country with infrastructure and industrial capability at his back. The ISIS threat is nothing even remotely close to the threat Hitler posed. Level headed people in the Middle East are more than capable of dealing with ISIS on their own.

Have you forgotten 9/11 Dex?  What our "responsibility" is............ what the responsibility of our government and our President is......... is to protect the American people from its enemies.

ISIS, as was al-Qaeda on 9/11, is an ENEMY seeking our destruction.......not just some hapless "band of extremists."  The reason we were caught flat-footed on 9/11 is that the Clinton administration (and up to that point, according to Condi Rice and President Bush, neither did the Bush administration) didn't take Islamic terrorism seriously.  We weren't at war with them, but they were at war with US.

And they still are.

"Level headed" people in the ME didn't take care of al-Qaeda, and they're not taking care of ISIS any better.

And it IS our responsibility to keep ourselves safe.  Burying one's head in the sand, refusing to call Islamic terrorism by its name, worrying more about "Islamophobia" than Islamic butchers, isn't going to make the problem go away.

It's going to make the problem worse.



(I tried to use my grown up vocabulary in this post so it wasn't beneath your superior intellect.  Hope I didn't offend you by my stupidity).

[Dexter]

Have you forgotten 9/11 Dex?  What our "responsibility" is............ what the responsibility of our government and our President is......... is to protect the American people from its enemies.

I haven't forgotten 9/11. I was quite young though, because it happened 14 years ago. Blowing up Islamic extremists isn't going to help prevent the next 9/11.

And it IS our responsibility to keep ourselves safe.  Burying one's head in the sand, refusing to call Islamic terrorism by its name, worrying more about "Islamophobia" than Islamic butchers, isn't going to make the problem go away.

Do you think Islamic extremism ends with ISIS? The mindset isn't going to go anywhere; these people will still exist. With that in mind, what is the solution? How do we minimize the possibility of us being attacked again? Do you think staying in the Middle East and involving ourselves in their affairs is going to do that, or is it more likely that backing off and concentrating on our own problems will do that? I want to once again reiterate that no amount of war waged in the Middle East is going to make Islamic extremism go away.

(I tried to use my grown up vocabulary in this post so it wasn't beneath your superior intellect.  Hope I didn't offend you by my stupidity).

I've never made any claims of being above anybody or having a superior intellect. I think you and the other people that post here are plenty intelligent. I just got a little irritated because I didn't feel my posts earlier were excessively convoluted.

[rb224315]

I am not ignoring that fact. I'm asking you what you want to do about that fact. What is the solution? Should we just kill everybody?

I struggle with the "what to do" question also.  I haven't reached any conclusions yet but I'll comment on the post above regarding gun ownership, infiltrating the government, etc.

Spreading Islam by the sword (or extracting tribute) was the excuse.

I don't know what to do about it

I've made it abundantly clear that I don't have the solution.  It seems I'm not the only one whose reading comprehension is lacking.   

I don't believe I've seen you say that Islam (not claims of murder, bombing, occupation, etc.) is the reason for Islamic terror, which is my entire point.  And you won't admit that Islam is at the core of 99% of terror attacks today.

[rb224315]

Blowing up Islamic extremists isn't going to help prevent the next 9/11.

What???  Surely you don't think that if Muhammed Atta had been blown up 2 days before September 11, 2001 he would have still piloted a plane into a the North Tower of the World Trade Center?  Geez.

Until now I thought you were just being obtuse.

[Dexter]

I've made it abundantly clear that I don't have the solution.  It seems I'm not the only one whose reading comprehension is lacking.   

I don't believe I've seen you say that Islam (not claims of murder, bombing, occupation, etc.) is the reason for Islamic terror, which is my entire point.  And you won't admit that Islam is at the core of 99% of terror attacks today.

Identifying the root of the problem isn't helping us much if we still don't know what to do about it. It seems to me that because we cannot target and kill the extremist mindset our only option is to leave it alone and focus on improving ourselves.

[Dexter]

What???  Surely you don't think that if Muhammed Atta had been blown up 2 days before September 11, 2001 he would have still piloted a plane into a the North Tower of the World Trade Center?  Geez.

Until now I thought you were just being obtuse.

You don't think another would have just taken his place? Killing people in the Middle East breeds more hatred for the United States. Just look at the situation over there now; it is worse than it ever was. We're not making the problem better.

[musiclady]

I haven't forgotten 9/11. I was quite young though, because it happened 14 years ago. Blowing up Islamic extremists isn't going to help prevent the next 9/11.

Actually, it very well might.  Killing Osama bin Laden before 9/11 might have been quite effective, in fact..... or any number of others who planned it, as has been mentioned by another here.

Do you think Islamic extremism ends with ISIS? The mindset isn't going to go anywhere; these people will still exist. With that in mind, what is the solution? How do we minimize the possibility of us being attacked again? Do you think staying in the Middle East and involving ourselves in their affairs is going to do that, or is it more likely that backing off and concentrating on our own problems will do that? I want to once again reiterate that no amount of war waged in the Middle East is going to make Islamic extremism go away.

Your 'something else will replace ISIS' argument is a straw dog.  Just because some other extremist group might or even will replace another, doesn't mean that we should ignore the one that exists.  That makes no logical sense.  OF COURSE there will be another group of bad people if we get rid of the present one.  It has nothing to do with whether or not we fight the one in the present.  (We could get into a debate about original sin here, but I'm not sure you'd grasp the connection).

I've never made any claims of being above anybody or having a superior intellect. I think you and the other people that post here are plenty intelligent. I just got a little irritated because I didn't feel my posts earlier were excessively convoluted.

Oh, so you didn't actually mean what you said with that dig about posting like a fifth grader so people could understand you?  You're denying you said it?  Or obfuscating? Or changing your mind?  Or what, exactly?

[musiclady]

You don't think another would have just taken his place? Killing people in the Middle East breeds more hatred for the United States. Just look at the situation over there now; it is worse than it ever was. We're not making the problem better.

Same liberal straw dog argument.

It's our fault they hate us.

Gitmo is actually causing terrorism.

Yeah.......... right................

(Oh, I do agree that we're not making it better NOW.  When our military was in Iraq destroying al-Qaeda, we WERE making it better).

[Dexter]

Your 'something else will replace ISIS' argument is a straw dog.  Just because some other extremist group might or even will replace another, doesn't mean that we should ignore the one that exists.  That makes no logical sense.  OF COURSE there will be another group of bad people if we get rid of the present one.  It has nothing to do with whether or not we fight the one in the present.  (We could get into a debate about original sin here, but I'm not sure you'd grasp the connection).

So we should just wage perpetual war in the Middle East and eternally fight a problem that is not going to end through violence?

Oh, so you didn't actually mean what you said with that dig about posting like a fifth grader so people could understand you?  You're denying you said it?  Or obfuscating? Or changing your mind?  Or what, exactly?

I think that was a pretty softball dig compared to what gets said around here. It wasn't nice, and maybe I shouldn't have said it. I was irritated; I apologize if I offended you.

[Dexter]

It's our fault they hate us.

It is the extremists that indoctrinate young people that are to blame for growing hatred of the United States. The problem is that it becomes easy for them to indoctrinate young people when we are occupying their country and bombing their cities.

[musiclady]

So we should just wage perpetual war in the Middle East and eternally fight a problem that is not going to end through violence?

You're still using straw dog arguments.....  Come up with something that has a basis in reality, and not imagination.

I think that was a pretty softball dig compared to what gets said around here. It wasn't nice, and maybe I shouldn't have said it. I was irritated; I apologize if I offended you.

You didn't offend me in the least.  Your elitism amuses me because the arguments against you are cogent, and your responses are cut and paste liberal talking points.

[musiclady]

It is the extremists that indoctrinate young people that are to blame for growing hatred of the United States. The problem is that it becomes easy for them to indoctrinate young people when we are occupying their country and bombing their cities.

Once again, 9/11 negates your point.

We weren't bombing anyone's cities when they slaughtered 3,000 of us.

Straw.  Dog.

[EdinVA]

I haven't forgotten 9/11. I was quite young though, because it happened 14 years ago. Blowing up Islamic extremists isn't going to help prevent the next 9/11.

Do you think Islamic extremism ends with ISIS? The mindset isn't going to go anywhere; these people will still exist. With that in mind, what is the solution? How do we minimize the possibility of us being attacked again? Do you think staying in the Middle East and involving ourselves in their affairs is going to do that, or is it more likely that backing off and concentrating on our own problems will do that? I want to once again reiterate that no amount of war waged in the Middle East is going to make Islamic extremism go away.

I think we all have different definitions of Islamic Extremism.
Are the people we are after just the "warriors"?
What about those that conduct Honor Killings of their raped daughters?
What about those that jail a woman/girl because she was out in public unescorted?
What about those that stone a woman/girl because someone saw her ankle or hair?
What about those that sell their kids to be suicide bombers?

These are just the things I can remember, but I personally consider all of it extremists and eligible to meet their 72 virgins.
This is a movement, not just a few angry men and if it is not resolved our grandkids will have to deal with it, our kids already are.
The entire world has to figure out how many violations of fundamental human decency we are are going to tolerate and for how long.

The Islamic world has give us very little choice, it is either us or them and they do not allow fence sitting.

[aligncare]

Good points on all sides.

I (and others here) have on occasion voiced similar frustration with being in the Middle East just as Dex is expressing. We were fatigued with Iraq and Afghanistan wars, and the KIA of our men and women. And for what?

But, the situation is fluid now. New threats are happening almost every day. It's becoming a situation of kill them there now – or kill them here later. I prefer to hunt and kill Wahhabis in their own backyard than in ours.

Unfortunately, we have a president who doesn't see it that way.