Author Topic: MARK CUBAN: Here's What Republicans Should Do Next  (Read 10136 times)

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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: MARK CUBAN: Here's What Republicans Should Do Next
« Reply #150 on: October 26, 2014, 08:13:37 pm »
I want somebody to give me an in depth definition of a social conservative and I don't mean the wikileaks version...make that anon-judgmental to.

Collectivist authoritarianism with a tinge of direct democracy socialism when it benefits the cause.
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, i have others." - Groucho Marx

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Re: MARK CUBAN: Here's What Republicans Should Do Next
« Reply #151 on: October 26, 2014, 08:15:51 pm »
Luis is good that way.  Sometimes it's a cold, hard slap across the face, but he always delivers what's needed.  It's why I missed him over the years and was happy to find him here on TBR.

Amen, brother.   :beer:  We're in total agreement there! 

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Re: MARK CUBAN: Here's What Republicans Should Do Next
« Reply #152 on: October 26, 2014, 09:32:45 pm »
Shit!

What'd I miss?

 I had 2 weeks developing a Powerpoint presentation for two classes at the same day and time. I was just cracking under pressure.

« Last Edit: October 26, 2014, 09:34:53 pm by Trigger »

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: MARK CUBAN: Here's What Republicans Should Do Next
« Reply #153 on: October 26, 2014, 10:57:02 pm »
Collectivist authoritarianism with a tinge of direct democracy socialism when it benefits the cause.

"Collectivist Authoritarianism?"  I think that might be a little harsh, Luis.  There certainly is a tinge of told-you-so moralism in there, and that can lead to authoritarianism (nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!).  I think most who call themselves SoCons would settle for not having their beliefs openly mocked and discriminated against.  The ones that I know who are authoritarian are kooks (think Westboro Baptist Church.  Kooks who hurt people by openly mocking the beliefs of others).  This "Gay Marriage" train under discussion recently left the station a long time ago.

The broad brush rarely paints accurately, no matter who wields it.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: MARK CUBAN: Here's What Republicans Should Do Next
« Reply #154 on: October 26, 2014, 10:58:52 pm »
I had 2 weeks developing a Powerpoint presentation for two classes at the same day and time. I was just cracking under pressure.

I should point out that whatever sins you feel you may have committed in that brief moment in time have long been forgiven by your friends.  Now, when you get a break, have a beer.  You are among friends.

 :beer:
« Last Edit: October 26, 2014, 11:01:20 pm by Cyber Liberty »
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline MACVSOG68

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Re: MARK CUBAN: Here's What Republicans Should Do Next
« Reply #155 on: October 26, 2014, 11:01:44 pm »
I should point out that whatever sins you feel you may have committed in that brief moment in time have long been forgiven by your friends.  Now, when you get a break, have a beer.  You are among friends.

 :beer:

Indeed!
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Re: MARK CUBAN: Here's What Republicans Should Do Next
« Reply #156 on: October 26, 2014, 11:11:14 pm »
I should point out that whatever sins you feel you may have committed in that brief moment in time have long been forgiven by your friends.  Now, when you get a break, have a beer.  You are among friends.

 :beer:

You know CL...I am so glad you decided to join here..we have sooo many great minds here and you fit in here so nicely...

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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: MARK CUBAN: Here's What Republicans Should Do Next
« Reply #157 on: October 26, 2014, 11:14:33 pm »
Yes, Bigun - Constitutional Conservatives!

The social issues are red herrings - it's the government overreach that spawned the Tea Party - and THAT has to be the issue that ties us all together.  We've got to stop arguing about the other stuff and get ourselves in office before we can even get a chance to address anything else.  I think most of us agree that what we have in common is a desire to see the Federal Government be severely cut down to the size that was intended by our Constitution.

We can do that without telling people who call themselves "SoCons" to eff off.  We must, or we'll lose.  We're getting there, but we have to be wary of people who think kicking the TEA Party to the curb is a great idea.  I wish we had anybody but McConnell for possible Majority Leader.  I'll give him this:  He understands the parliamentary rules of the Senate better than anybody, and that's useful.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: MARK CUBAN: Here's What Republicans Should Do Next
« Reply #158 on: October 26, 2014, 11:15:59 pm »
You know CL...I am so glad you decided to join here..we have sooo many great minds here and you fit in here so nicely...

...

I always thought of myself as an unserious person....
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: MARK CUBAN: Here's What Republicans Should Do Next
« Reply #159 on: October 26, 2014, 11:32:33 pm »
"Collectivist Authoritarianism?"  I think that might be a little harsh, Luis.  There certainly is a tinge of told-you-so moralism in there, and that can lead to authoritarianism (nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!).  I think most who call themselves SoCons would settle for not having their beliefs openly mocked and discriminated against.  The ones that I know who are authoritarian are kooks (think Westboro Baptist Church.  Kooks who hurt people by openly mocking the beliefs of others).  This "Gay Marriage" train under discussion recently left the station a long time ago.

The broad brush rarely paints accurately, no matter who wields it.

Yes, collectivist authoritarianism via socialist direct democracy.

The fight to stop SSM from becoming legal (from the SoCon side) centers around referendums, propositions and ballot initiatives where whether same sex couples should have the right and ability to marry one another is decided via majority vote (direct democracy). In other words, the majority should be able to decide whether or not that right exists.

Our system of government is designed to protect the individual (every individual so in turn, minorities) against the power of an omnipotent Majority.

Rights exist. They can't be voted into existence, but they can be violated via a majority vote via legislative tyranny at the bequest of an Omnipotent Majority.

Collectivist authoritarianism with a healthy side of socialism (direct democracy).
« Last Edit: October 26, 2014, 11:34:55 pm by Luis Gonzalez »
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, i have others." - Groucho Marx

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: MARK CUBAN: Here's What Republicans Should Do Next
« Reply #160 on: October 26, 2014, 11:34:46 pm »
Yes, collectivist authoritarianism via socialist direct democracy.

The fight to stop SSM from becoming legal (from the SoCon side) centers around referendums, propositions and ballot initiatives where whether same sex couples should have the right and ability to marry one another is decided via majority vote (direct democracy). In other words, the majority should be able to decide whether or not that right exists.

Our system of government is designed to protect the individual (every individual so in turn, minorities) against the power of an omnipotent Majority.

Rights exists, they can't be voted into existence,. but they can be violated via a majority vote via legislative tyranny.

Collectivist authoritarianism with a healthy side of socialism (direct democracy).

Your formula cannot be denied.  Makes sense.  Now, if we can get them to understand the basic natural rights to property and self-defense.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: MARK CUBAN: Here's What Republicans Should Do Next
« Reply #161 on: October 26, 2014, 11:37:41 pm »
Yes, collectivist authoritarianism via socialist direct democracy.

The fight to stop SSM from becoming legal (from the SoCon side) centers around referendums, propositions and ballot initiatives where whether same sex couples should have the right and ability to marry one another is decided via majority vote (direct democracy). In other words, the majority should be able to decide whether or not that right exists.

Our system of government is designed to protect the individual (every individual so in turn, minorities) against the power of an omnipotent Majority.

Rights exist. They can't be voted into existence, but they can be violated via a majority vote via legislative tyranny at the bequest of an Omnipotent Majority.

Collectivist authoritarianism with a healthy side of socialism (direct democracy).

I must add....the only reason the SoCons are trying to bring the power of the State into the SSM issue is because the State is in the business of licensing any Marriages, same-sex or otherwise.  I think we can agree that ought not to be the situation.  Marriage is more of a contract than a religious ritual, and out to be understood as such.

And I say that as an unserious poster. 
« Last Edit: October 26, 2014, 11:38:22 pm by Cyber Liberty »
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: MARK CUBAN: Here's What Republicans Should Do Next
« Reply #162 on: October 26, 2014, 11:40:43 pm »
Your formula cannot be denied.  Makes sense.  Now, if we can get them to understand the basic natural rights to property and self-defense.


What Is Law?

What, then, is law? It is the collective organization of the individual right to lawful defense.

Each of us has a natural right — from God — to defend his person, his liberty, and his property. These are the three basic requirements of life, and the preservation of any one of them is completely dependent upon the preservation of the other two. For what are our faculties but the extension of our individuality? And what is property but an extension of our faculties? If every person has the right to defend even by force — his person, his liberty, and his property, then it follows that a group of men have the right to organize and support a common force to protect these rights constantly. Thus the principle of collective right — its reason for existing, its lawfulness — is based on individual right. And the common force that protects this collective right cannot logically have any other purpose or any other mission than that for which it acts as a substitute. Thus, since an individual cannot lawfully use force against the person, liberty, or property of another individual, then the common force — for the same reason — cannot lawfully be used to destroy the person, liberty, or property of individuals or groups.

Such a perversion of force would be, in both cases, contrary to our premise. Force has been given to us to defend our own individual rights. Who will dare to say that force has been given to us to destroy the equal rights of our brothers? Since no individual acting separately can lawfully use force to destroy the rights of others, does it not logically follow that the same principle also applies to the common force that is nothing more than the organized combination of the individual forces?

If this is true, then nothing can be more evident than this: The law is the organization of the natural right of lawful defense. It is the substitution of a common force for individual forces. And this common force is to do only what the individual forces have a natural and lawful right to do: to protect persons, liberties, and properties; to maintain the right of each, and to cause justice to reign over us all.

A Just and Enduring Government

If a nation were founded on this basis, it seems to me that order would prevail among the people, in thought as well as in deed. It seems to me that such a nation would have the most simple, easy to accept, economical, limited, nonoppressive, just, and enduring government imaginable — whatever its political form might be.

Under such an administration, everyone would understand that he possessed all the privileges as well as all the responsibilities of his existence. No one would have any argument with government, provided that his person was respected, his labor was free, and the fruits of his labor were protected against all unjust attack. When successful, we would not have to thank the state for our success. And, conversely, when unsuccessful, we would no more think of blaming the state for our misfortune than would the farmers blame the state because of hail or frost. The state would be felt only by the invaluable blessings of safety provided by this concept of government.

It can be further stated that, thanks to the non-intervention of the state in private affairs, our wants and their satisfactions would develop themselves in a logical manner. We would not see poor families seeking literary instruction before they have bread. We would not see cities populated at the expense of rural districts, nor rural districts at the expense of cities. We would not see the great displacements of capital, labor, and population that are caused by legislative decisions.

The sources of our existence are made uncertain and precarious by these state-created displacements. And, furthermore, these acts burden the government with increased responsibilities.

The Complete Perversion of the Law

But, unfortunately, law by no means confines itself to its proper functions. And when it has exceeded its proper functions, it has not done so merely in some inconsequential and debatable matters. The law has gone further than this; it has acted in direct opposition to its own purpose. The law has been used to destroy its own objective: It has been applied to annihilating the justice that it was supposed to maintain; to limiting and destroying rights which its real purpose was to respect. The law has placed the collective force at the disposal of the unscrupulous who wish, without risk, to exploit the person, liberty, and property of others. It has converted plunder into a right, in order to protect plunder. And it has converted lawful defense into a crime, in order to punish lawful defense.

How has this perversion of the law been accomplished? And what have been the results?

The law has been perverted by the influence of two entirely different causes: stupid greed and false philanthropy. Let us speak of the first.

A Fatal Tendency of Mankind

Self-preservation and self-development are common aspirations among all people. And if everyone enjoyed the unrestricted use of his faculties and the free disposition of the fruits of his labor, social progress would be ceaseless, uninterrupted, and unfailing.

But there is also another tendency that is common among people. When they can, they wish to live and prosper at the expense of others. This is no rash accusation. Nor does it come from a gloomy and uncharitable spirit. The annals of history bear witness to the truth of it: the incessant wars, mass migrations, religious persecutions, universal slavery, dishonesty in commerce, and monopolies. This fatal desire has its origin in the very nature of man — in that primitive, universal, and insuppressible instinct that impels him to satisfy his desires with the least possible pain.

Property and Plunder

Man can live and satisfy his wants only by ceaseless labor; by the ceaseless application of his faculties to natural resources. This process is the origin of property.

But it is also true that a man may live and satisfy his wants by seizing and consuming the products of the labor of others. This process is the origin of plunder.

Now since man is naturally inclined to avoid pain — and since labor is pain in itself — it follows that men will resort to plunder whenever plunder is easier than work. History shows this quite clearly. And under these conditions, neither religion nor morality can stop it.

When, then, does plunder stop? It stops when it becomes more painful and more dangerous than labor.

It is evident, then, that the proper purpose of law is to use the power of its collective force to stop this fatal tendency to plunder instead of to work. All the measures of the law should protect property and punish plunder.

But, generally, the law is made by one man or one class of men. And since law cannot operate without the sanction and support of a dominating force, this force must be entrusted to those who make the laws.

This fact, combined with the fatal tendency that exists in the heart of man to satisfy his wants with the least possible effort, explains the almost universal perversion of the law. Thus it is easy to understand how law, instead of checking injustice, becomes the invincible weapon of injustice. It is easy to understand why the law is used by the legislator to destroy in varying degrees among the rest of the people, their personal independence by slavery, their liberty by oppression, and their property by plunder. This is done for the benefit of the person who makes the law, and in proportion to the power that he holds.

The Law - Frederic Bastiat
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: MARK CUBAN: Here's What Republicans Should Do Next
« Reply #163 on: October 26, 2014, 11:42:31 pm »
May I have a moment? 
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: MARK CUBAN: Here's What Republicans Should Do Next
« Reply #164 on: October 26, 2014, 11:49:53 pm »
You just turned me on to Frédéric Bastiat.  I am in awe.   I'd never heard of him.  There is a good chance you may not see me again for awhile.  There is some heavy thinking there, and I simply must consume.

http://bastiat.org/en/the_law.html
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Online Bigun

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Re: MARK CUBAN: Here's What Republicans Should Do Next
« Reply #165 on: October 27, 2014, 12:23:33 am »
You just turned me on to Frédéric Bastiat.  I am in awe.   I'd never heard of him.  There is a good chance you may not see me again for awhile.  There is some heavy thinking there, and I simply must consume.

http://bastiat.org/en/the_law.html

"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it."

Frederic Bastiat
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: MARK CUBAN: Here's What Republicans Should Do Next
« Reply #166 on: October 27, 2014, 12:44:00 am »
Thanks!  I just Kindled the book, will be reading it for a while....
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: MARK CUBAN: Here's What Republicans Should Do Next
« Reply #167 on: October 27, 2014, 03:12:17 am »
Thanks!  I just Kindled the book, will be reading it for a while....

Happy reading.
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, i have others." - Groucho Marx

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Re: MARK CUBAN: Here's What Republicans Should Do Next
« Reply #168 on: October 28, 2014, 01:06:21 am »
I should point out that whatever sins you feel you may have committed in that brief moment in time have long been forgiven by your friends.  Now, when you get a break, have a beer.  You are among friends.

 :beer:

Thanks