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alicewonders:
--- Quote from: massadvj on May 24, 2014, 07:33:12 pm ---The EU economy, like the US economy, cannot prosper without robust immigration for the simple reason that the natives are not having enough babies to sustain things. People lament all the immigrants but they don't seem willing to give up the western coffee house metrosexual consumerist lifestyle.
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That's an excellent point. We have now, several generations of people, that have been made to feel "guilty" about overpopulating the earth and using up our "precious" resources. The trouble is, there are other groups of people that don't hold to that stupid ideology and they are out-populating us. Almost like it was "by design".
Luis Gonzalez:
--- Quote from: massadvj on May 24, 2014, 07:33:12 pm ---The EU economy, like the US economy, cannot prosper without robust immigration for the simple reason that the natives are not having enough babies to sustain things. People lament all the immigrants but they don't seem willing to give up the western coffee house metrosexual consumerist lifestyle.
--- End quote ---
I am so going to steal that.
speekinout:
--- Quote from: massadvj on May 24, 2014, 07:33:12 pm ---The EU economy, like the US economy, cannot prosper without robust immigration for the simple reason that the natives are not having enough babies to sustain things. People lament all the immigrants but they don't seem willing to give up the western coffee house metrosexual consumerist lifestyle.
--- End quote ---
Yes. Japan is in serious trouble because they don't attract immigrants, and they are like Europe and the US in not having enough babies. They have a growing elderly population and not enough young workers to pay the bills and create the markets.
I think people who are anti-immigration should take a closer look at Japan. It shows that we need to control immigration, not stop it.
truth_seeker:
--- Quote from: massadvj on May 24, 2014, 07:33:12 pm ---The EU economy, like the US economy, cannot prosper without robust immigration for the simple reason that the natives are not having enough babies to sustain things. People lament all the immigrants but they don't seem willing to give up the western coffee house metrosexual consumerist lifestyle.
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Interesting.
One of my old bosses, then a VP Finance of a Fortune 500 corporation, used to let his hair down and observe the constant quest of earnings growth-year by year. He said at the time, "We made $125 million dollars, which is pretty good. Way up from a few years ago. Just doing the same thing next year should be seen as pretty good, too."
Along the same lines, if a society reaches a comfortable GDP per capita, like Europe, US, etc. is it absolutely necessary to have continual "growth?"
IOW what is wrong with a stable population? Some of the highest GDP's per capita are in stable population places, and some of the lowest are in growing populations.
speekinout:
--- Quote from: truth_seeker on May 24, 2014, 11:04:13 pm ---Along the same lines, if a society reaches a comfortable GDP per capita, like Europe, US, etc. is it absolutely necessary to have continual "growth?"
IOW what is wrong with a stable population? Some of the highest GDP's per capita are in stable population places, and some of the lowest are in growing populations.
--- End quote ---
I know you didn't ask me, but - :laugh:
The problem with a stable population is that more people are growing older these days. They're leaving the productive workforce, and also leaving the market for goods. That makes a stable GDP and a stable population in conflict with each other.
Of course, if the country is paying pensions and medical care for the elderly, the problem is even worse - instead of contributing to the country, they are a drain.
I suppose that if you could keep the elderly at a given % of the population, it would be fine, but you could only do that with rather abhorrent practices - death panels and control of either reproduction or immigration or both.
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