Amnesty: The devaluation of American Citizenship

[evadR]

"I get your frustration, but your XIV Amendment argument doesn't work for me."

I never thought it would Luis. I think it's safe to say we view things differently.

This bunch in congress is determined to cram millions of illegals down our throats.  IMO it will be unconstitutional. That will not keep them from doing it.

I see many years of RAT rule in my future.
I see the demise of the Republican party in my future. Maybe that's a good thing.
I see the WASP as an endangered species in my future. Maybe that also is a good thing.
I see American Exceptionalism disappearing in my present and in my future. Again, maybe a good thing.
I see granting amnesty to illegals a part of that demise. Again, another good thing???

Who knows?  Three more years of Obama could finish us all off.

[Luis Gonzalez]

"I get your frustration, but your XIV Amendment argument doesn't work for me."

I never thought it would Luis. I think it's safe to say we view things differently.

The thing is that I gave you a detailed explanation of why it wouldn't, but you have yet to offer anything in the way of explaining exactly HOW it would within the content and legal interpretations of the Amendment.

I get that you feel that a citizenship that can be attained via amnesty decreases the value of your own citizenship, since the legal process is not followed, however, the answer to your concern (it's not going to change your mind in the least bit) lies in the Constitution itself:

The Congress shall have Power To...establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization....

ARTICLE I, SECTION 8, CLAUSE 4

Congress can change what those rules of naturalization are at will, and that's what amnesty would amount to.

P.S. Do not mistake my having an understanding of the issue as translating into support for the idea of an uncontrolled border. I just see the issue of the millions already being here as nearly impossible to resolve short of simply letting them stay. We also need to control the border... not close it down, control it.

Arguing about whether or not to grant them amnesty for decades actually amounts to amnesty.

[truth_seeker]

Luis wrote:
[[ P.S. About those future historians.
They won't be white. ]]

Of course not.
But they won't be Hispanic, either.

They'll be Asian.

In California both Hispanics and Asians outnumber blacks.

I watched a Japanese American nursery owner (native born American, multi-millionaire, blue collar type of guy) speaking to his helper in Spanish as they worked together on a landscaping job, on one of his properties.

[EC]

In California both Hispanics and Asians outnumber blacks.

I watched a Japanese American nursery owner (native born American, multi-millionaire, blue collar type of guy) speaking to his helper in Spanish as they worked together on a landscaping job, on one of his properties.

Never got this aspect of American culture, at all. 

WHAT IS WRONG WITH BEING POLY-LINGUAL!!!!

Romney got shit for being able to speak French. GWB got shit for being fluent in Spanish, and the same rumblings were out for Perry, who is also fluent in Spanish. Why is this such a blind spot in American culture?

[evadR]

"The Congress shall have Power To...establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization...."

What congress will do is not uniform, i.e. apply equally to all.
It will take a specific group and apply a specific grant of amnesty for a specific purpose.  It will specifically dilute the citizen base with illegals. Legal citizen's rights will have been violated. Equal Protection Intent will be violated.

That's the difference.

Congress has passed laws on immigration, which amnesty is not and cannot be. Amnesty is more like legalizing an invasion.

It will be unconstitutional but in the words of the Benghazi Witch, what difference does it make? It will not keep them from doing it.

[Luis Gonzalez]

Never got this aspect of American culture, at all. 

WHAT IS WRONG WITH BEING POLY-LINGUAL!!!!

Romney got shit for being able to speak French. GWB got shit for being fluent in Spanish, and the same rumblings were out for Perry, who is also fluent in Spanish. Why is this such a blind spot in American culture?

I've always wondered how American exceptionalism could be so insecure. 

[evadR]

"Arguing about whether or not to grant them amnesty for decades actually amounts to amnesty."

Not at all.
It may be procrastination, which our government is famous for, but nothing like amnesty.
After amnesty, they'll be voters. This distinction alone makes it a huge difference.

[evadR]

Most people don't know what the term "American Exceptionalism" actually means.
I suspect some of them are posting on this board right now.

[DCPatriot]

Most people don't know what the term "American Exceptionalism" actually means.
I suspect some of them are posting on this board right now.

Not trying to be a butt head......but is that necessary?

Furthermore, IMO, more than one definition works for me.   It's all good.

[Luis Gonzalez]

Not trying to be a butt head......but is that necessary?

Furthermore, IMO, more than one definition works for me.   It's all good.

Please take no offense with my post, far be it for me, an English as a second language guy, to correct an Englsih as a native language poster, but shouldn't that be either "not trying to also be a butt head" or even "not trying to be a butt head as well"?

[EC]

Most people don't know what the term "American Exceptionalism" actually means.
I suspect some of them are posting on this board right now.

I always split it into two.

You have American Triumphalism - "Look at what we did!"

The you have Exceptionalism - *spits on hands* "Let's rock."

[evadR]

Not trying to be a butt head......but is that necessary?

Furthermore, IMO, more than one definition works for me.   It's all good.

Sorry about that DC but that post wasn't mean't to be offensive.

[evadR]

Please take no offense with my post, far be it for me, an English as a second language guy, to correct an Englsih as a native language poster, but shouldn't that be either "not trying to also be a butt head" or even "not trying to be a butt head as well"?

Luis, I think he's referring to me.

You get enough heat for things you do, you don't need more heat for things you don't do :)

[Luis Gonzalez]

Luis, I think he's referring to me.

You get enough heat for things you do, you don't need more heat for things you don't do :)

Sorry a bout that.

Some of the nuances of the language still escape me.

[Luis Gonzalez]

I always split it into two.

You have American Triumphalism - "Look at what we did!"

The you have Exceptionalism - *spits on hands* "Let's rock."

Or, as a Cuban immigrant, I can say that we took exceptionalism and ran with it until we smacked right into triumphalism.

Cubans are usually considered to be the most successful Hispanic immigrant group, with educational and economic profiles near those of the U.S. population as a whole. They constitute the third largest Hispanic immigrant group in the United States, behind only Mexicans and Puerto Ricans.

http://northamericanimmigration.org/77-cuban-immigration.html

Great write up, in spite of the author's glaring error.

Cubans are the SECOND largest "Hispanic" (hate that word) immigrant group in the US, not the third.

Puerto Ricans are born US citizens.

They don't migrate to the US... they move here.

[EC]

Or, as a Cuban immigrant, I can say that we took exceptionalism and ran with it until we smacked right into triumphalism.

Great write up, in spite of the author's glaring error.

Cubans are the SECOND largest "Hispanic" (hate that word) immigrant group in the US, not the third.

Puerto Ricans are born US citizens.

They don't migrate to the US... they move here.

I know a hell of a lot of Cuban emigrants to the USA for some reason. They tend to either go military or go seriously high tech stuff. Hassle them - you hassle me. You don't really want to hassle me.  They'll give you the shirt off their back. If they ain't wearing a shirt, they'll find you something to keep the sun off.

Often pondered what may have happened if Castro never came to power.

[Lando Lincoln]

One of my dearest friends was Cuban.  Most vibrant, alive person I have ever known.  He immigrated to the US with his parents when he was very young.  I have never known anyone who hated someone else like he hated Castro.  His parents had owned a sugar plantation in Cuba and lost it all.  I can tell many stories of my travels with him.  He married a former Miss Colombia.

My friend died in the Dominican Republic a couple years back of a self-inflicted gunshot.  I still have not come to terms with it.

[EC]

My friend died in the Dominican Republic a couple years back of a self-inflicted gunshot.  I still have not come to terms with it.

I am so sorry, my friend. It hurts so bleep much when that happens.

[Lando Lincoln]

I am so sorry, my friend. It hurts so bleeping much when that happens.

Yes.  Yes it does.

[EC]

Yes.  Yes it does.

Can I tell you something that sometimes helps? Not always.

He ain'r gone. Not until no one remembers him.

[Lando Lincoln]

Can I tell you something that sometimes helps? Not always.

He ain'r gone. Not until no one remembers him.

Thank you EC.   It means a lot. You are a good friend.

[DCPatriot]

Sorry about that DC but that post wasn't mean't to be offensive.

No...I'm sorry.   Just got back home and it looks like I completely misread your post.

.....which is funny because on its own...I still read it the same way.   Need a drink!   

[Luis Gonzalez]

Thank you EC.   It means a lot. You are a good friend.

There is a very uniquely Cuban thing that you don't see outside of South Florida.

Cuban restaurants and bakeries (Cuban bakeries are more lunch counters than bakeries) all have a service window. Imagine a walk-up drive through window.

Cubans stand there and buy cafecitos (shots of Cuban coffee) some with steamed milk, others just straight up, and we talk and argue about politics.

There are a lot of heated, loud disagreements about local politics... and beisbol. The two things Cubans are the most passionate about.

Rubio or Cruz, the Marlins of the Bronx Bombers.

There is ONE thing we are always in agreement about.

We hate the Castro brothers.

Tomorrow, I'm going to stop by one of those windows, raise a cup of Cubano in your friend's name, and talk about hating Fidel.

I hope he enjoys that.

[Lando Lincoln]

There is a very uniquely Cuban thing that you don't see outside of South Florida.

Cuban restaurants and bakeries (Cuban bakeries are more lunch counters than bakeries) all have a service window. Imagine a walk-up drive through window.

Cubans stand there and buy cafecitos (shots of Cuban coffee) some with steamed milk, others just straight up, and we talk and argue about politics.

There are a lot of heated, loud disagreements about local politics... and beisbol. The two things Cubans are the most passionate about.

Rubio or Cruz, the Marlins of the Bronx Bombers.

There is ONE thing we are always in agreement about.

We hate the Castro brothers.

Tomorrow, I'm going to stop by one of those windows, raise a cup of Cubano in your friend's name, and talk about hating Fidel.

I hope he enjoys that.

Oh my. I am moved - deeply. Everyone called him Geno - short for Eugenio.  When he lived in the States, he lived in Coral Gables and he adored his parents who lived nearby.  He did not realize he had a son until after the boy had grown to adulthood.  They bonded immediately.

I met him in Medellin, Colombia and we became friends immediately.  He was handsome, charismatic and so damn funny.  Short of George Clooney, I have never seen anyone with so many beautiful women on his arm.  He called them "vampires".  I spent 13 months in Trinidad with him and we had total trust in one another.  Spent a lot of time elsewhere with him but we had the most fun together in Colombia and Barbados.  So many stories... they would sound like fiction if I told them all. 

He and I once went to a party in Bogota with Rick James.  Yes, that Rick James.  And that was the beginning.  I have never known anyone so alive.  Ever.

Thank you Luis.  Sincerely.

[MBB1984]

Just ENFORCE existing laws that prevent access to any and all PUBLIC SERVICES.

Great rant.

The problem is that existing laws grants them access to public services.

What specific services are you speaking about other than Hospital emergency room access?  Generally speaking, illegal aliens do not have access to Medicaid, SSi, or food stamps.  Anchor babies are a completely different issue, however.