Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments

[evadR]

Yes, racism has lost its meaning and impact. It has become a joke when the word is used even though there are still cases of real racism. Unfortunately, the source of most racism nowadays comes from blacks and it's not only opportunity based, it's violent.

[Howie66]

There is no sanitized version when a person says a race of people had it better as slaves than they do now.

I honestly can't believe that people are still trying to defend this outlaw.

The people that defend Mr. Bundy are likely the very same people that may wind up defending you. You may want to think about that.

[Howie66]

But we can believe that the mainstream media would misrepresent what he said, can't we?

You very salient point seems to be lost on certain people, doesn't it?

[musiclady]

Surely you are not aiming that at me??

Just saw this post.

The answer: NO, my friend! 

[Bigun]

I find it fascinating that this is an issue in which I disagree with the good people I usually agree with, and agree with the people I have more disagreements with (though I agree with, and disagree with every single person on some issues).  Also, I find it fascinating that I agree with Glenn Beck (with whom I frequently disagree) on this, and think we should run as far away from this guy, Bundy, as we can.

(And I don't think those who agree with me here are particular fans of Beck, eh?  :dx1:)

I ADORE the free and spirited exchange of ideas, and I HATE "groupthink."

There has been NO "hysteria" nor "hyperbole" on this thread.  It has been emotionally charged, but never out of control (not even close, actually).

We all need to do serious thinking about racism.  The left has destroyed the very meaning of the word.  They have controlled the message, maligned every single one of us on this forum, lied, distorted, and filled the conversation with hate-filled lies about us.

That does not, however, mean that we should not address the real problems with race relations in this country, and work for reconciliation.  That does not mean that we shouldn't address the mess that the left has created among the black community with the 'slavery' of the welfare state.   Many blacks have chosen to stay dependent, many black women have chosen to have multiple children out of wedlock to get more money.  Many black men have chosen to abandon their families.

These are not unsolvable issues, but they are issues that require moral, conservative, small-government leadership, and that require the Church to be the Church, and Christians to behave as we are commanded to behave (I indict myself in that accusation).

There are solutions.  But that doesn't mean that we should not have the discussion.  The left tries to silence dissent.  We should not.

 

[DCPatriot]

The fact of the matter is that America takes the brunt of the ills of slavery even though we abolished it 150 years ago, while several countries maintain that despicable practice, today. It's interesting to note that the majority of slave holding countries are also Muzzie governed countries.

First let me say that I enjoy reading your contributions to the forum, Howie66.

But....I would like to point out that typing "Muzzie" erases virtually all of the salient point your were making. 

It's why Conservatives are in the 'predicament'  we're in.   

Not singling you out, Howie.....just making an overall observation.   

[musiclady]

The fact of the matter is that America takes the brunt of the ills of slavery even though we abolished it 150 years ago, while several countries maintain that despicable practice, today. It's interesting to note that the majority of slave holding countries are also Muzzie governed countries.

This is a salient point about current slavery.  Most of the African slavery now is black Africans owned by Muslim, lighter skinned Africans.

However, the greatest number of slaves (IIRC) are in southern India where neither group is Muslim.  There is also slavery on the coffee plantations in Brazil, not involving Muslims.

btw, I would urge you to be careful as to what you assume is being 'lost' on 'certain people.'  I doubt there is a single person involved in this discussion who is not fully aware the MSM does to conservatives.  The people on this forum are well educated, especially in regard to the diabolical nature of the left.

Accusing us of being patsies of the left and falling for their ploys is a spurious argument, Howie.

We just think Bundy said an incredibly stupid and wrong thing.

[katzenjammer]

I think that the almost hysterical hyperbole that you, Loki and others are engaging some of us in - that one kind of slavery is miles worse than another kind of slavery - is kind of like saying having your leg cut off is so much worse than having your arm cut off!  Like I said, try telling that black child in Chicago, "Hey, at least you're not chained up and beaten, owned by another human being" - although in some houses, children are having to endure that very same thing. 

Do you know there are many, many children sold into human trafficking - right here in this country?  You say that poor blacks have the option to leave that terrible city....I would say that it would be almost as difficult for some of them to do so as it would be for them to try to "escape the plantation". 

I am offended that you feel you need to "explain" the evil of slavery to those of us that insist of saying that we don't think Bundy is an evil racist - that we think the media is using him for their own EVIL (and I mean TRULY evil) means.  That we think Mr. Bundy is an old man from a different generation that says things that ever-so-enlightened-modern-sophisticated-people equate to condoning slavery and that these enlightened people must explain it to us bigots that think it's no big thang. 

The fact that we're having this conversation tells me that there ain't no way in hell we're going to win any elections this fall or in 2016.  The liberal progressive media has completely succeeded in tearing us apart - we are, and we will remain "slaves" until we stop letting the media scare us into submission.  Well, I refuse to be shackled by political correctness and the palpable fear of being called a racist any longer!

Screw the distractions all to hell people - get back on topic.  The government is too big, too powerful, too greedy, too power-hungry, TOO EVIL!  This is the enemy!

 

VERY Well said!!

 

[Howie66]

First let me say that I enjoy reading your contributions to the forum, Howie66.

But....I would like to point out that typing "Muzzie" erases virtually all of the salient point your were making. 

It's why Conservatives are in the 'predicament'  we're in.   

Not singling you out, Howie.....just making an overall observation.   

As long as I am referred to as an Infidel, I will use the term of endearment, Muzzie. 

[katzenjammer]

The people that defend Mr. Bundy are likely the very same people that may wind up defending you. You may want to think about that.

Excellent point, Howie!!   

[Howie66]

This is a salient point about current slavery.  Most of the African slavery now is black Africans owned by Muslim, lighter skinned Africans.

However, the greatest number of slaves (IIRC) are in southern India where neither group is Muslim.  There is also slavery on the coffee plantations in Brazil, not involving Muslims.

btw, I would urge you to be careful as to what you assume is being 'lost' on 'certain people.'  I doubt there is a single person involved in this discussion who is not fully aware the MSM does to conservatives.  The people on this forum are well educated, especially in regard to the diabolical nature of the left.

Accusing us of being patsies of the left and falling for their ploys is a spurious argument, Howie.

We just think Bundy said an incredibly stupid and wrong thing.

In the overall scheme of matters, what Mr. Bundy said is totally irrelevant and has nothing at all to do with anything. His opinion is just that. His opinion.

This whole affair is about the FACT that we have a government that has, in effect, declared war on the Citizens of the United States, our Constitutional freedoms and liberties.

That is what counts here. Everything else is just distractions.

[mystery-ak]

As long as I am referred to as an Infidel, I will use the term of endearment, Muzzie. 

 

[Bigun]

  LOL!

Been playing most of my adult life and you could probably STILL kick my a$$. 

Actually I haven't played in years but once had a shelf full of trophies I won at it. Might be interesting to see if it would come back to me!

[musiclady]

In the overall scheme of matters, what Mr. Bundy said is totally irrelevant and has nothing at all to do with anything. His opinion is just that. His opinion.

This whole affair is about the FACT that we have a government that has, in effect, declared war on the Citizens of the United States, our Constitutional freedoms and liberties.

That is what counts here. Everything else is just distractions.

A distraction that Mr. Bundy brought on himself.

[Bigun]

In the overall scheme of matters, what Mr. Bundy said is totally irrelevant and has nothing at all to do with anything. His opinion is just that. His opinion.

This whole affair is about the FACT that we have a government that has, in effect, declared war on the Citizens of the United States, our Constitutional freedoms and liberties.

That is what counts here. Everything else is just distractions.

   and   

[DCPatriot]

Actually I haven't played in years but once had a shelf full of trophies I won at it. Might be interesting to see if it would come back to me!

Next time you visit the Washington, DC region, let me know via PM.....would love to whack a few with you!

[mystery-ak]

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/cliven-bundy-mlk-rosa-parks-offended

Bundy: If People Are Offended By Me, Then MLK 'Didn't Do His Job'

CATHERINE THOMPSON – APRIL 25, 2014, 9:18 AM EDT
Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy said Friday that he doesn't believe his remarks on blacks and slavery were "offensive," and if other people take them that way, it means civil rights icon Martin Luther King Jr. "didn't do his job."

Bundy was pressed by CNN's Chris Cuomo to acknowledge that he offended people when he mused about whether blacks were "better off as slaves, picking cotton" than "under government subsidy," which was first highlighted by the New York Times.

In response, Bundy again slammed the media for portraying him as a racist while stressing that he supports civil rights. He invoked the example of Rosa Parks, saying "I want her to be able to sit anywhere in the bus and I want to be able to sit by her anywhere in that bus."

"Maybe I sinned and maybe I need to ask forgiveness … but you know when you talk about prejudice, we're talking about not being able to exercise what we think and are feeling," Bundy eventually conceded.

"If I say 'negro' or 'black boy' or 'slave,' I'm not -- if those people cannot take those kind of words and not be offensive then Martin Luther King didn't do his job," he added.

[Bigun]

A distraction that Mr. Bundy brought on himself.

That's true! No doubt about it but Mr. Bundy is also just a hard working American not trained in media relations who was trying to say something very profound and screwed it up badly.

He should just shut the heck up at this point.

[Bigun]

Next time you visit the Washington, DC region, let me know via PM.....would love to whack a few with you!

Thanks!

Will do! Count on it!

[DCPatriot]

That's true! No doubt about it but Mr. Bundy is also just a hard working American not trained in media relations who was trying to say something very profound and screwed it up badly.

He should just shut the heck up at this point.

Actually....no he shouldn't.   Let him explain himself.

That is, unless we want to once again as Conservatives....tuck our tails and run like hell.

[Bigun]

Actually....no he shouldn't.   Let him explain himself.

That is, unless we want to once again as Conservatives....tuck our tails and run like hell.

Upon reflection, I concur.

[musiclady]

One more point, which was alluded to on another thread.....

Many of us have had a great deal of pride in the fact that the abolition movement began among Christians and was continued here in this country by the newly formed Republican party; that it was Republicans who fought Jim Crow, who integrated Washington (only to have it re-segregated by Woodrow Wilson), who, with only a few exceptions, fought the early Progressive movement that was racist to the point of ethnic cleansing (an idea plucked up by the Nazis), who have fought against Planned Parenthood and abortion, who supported Civil Rights while the Democrats fought it, who have opposed the racism of Affirmative Action, and the hideous welfare state and what it has done to the black family.

Why should we now..........with our history.......... not stand up against the careless, insensitive words of Cliven Bundy?

Why should we be accused of falling into a leftist trap, or being naïve or "lost" just because we are standing for the principles we have stood for for centuries?

[Howie66]

A distraction that Mr. Bundy brought on himself.

Negative, that.

This is a distraction that was manufactured by the propaganda arm of the Obama Regime.

[musiclady]

Upon reflection, I concur.

What I think maybe should happen, upon reflection, is that it should be CONSERVATIVE leaders who question his words, and have him explain what he meant, if he indeed did not mean what he actually said he meant.

We should be leading the charge in having him clarify (I realize that this may seem like a change from my "shut up" way up thread, which I still think he should do when charged by the MSM), what seem to be bizarre and ignorant words.

If WE ask the questions (without being attacked by our peers), then perhaps a more satisfactory response and clarification will occur.

Then, if upon examination, he reveals real racism, we should not defend him.

I truly believe he was put on a pedestal very quickly by some in the conservative community, before there was ample 'vetting' as it were, of his motives and character.  He was chosen by some to represent the fight (we all agree with) against the government, and elevated to a point beyond which he deserved to be placed.

[musiclady]

Negative, that.

This is a distraction that was manufactured by the propaganda arm of the Obama Regime.

The unfortunate words were Bundy's.

In many cases, perhaps most, I agree.  But not this one.

He stepped in it.  No one made him do it.  The propaganda arm of the Regime just ran with it.