Why ranchers support "hero" Cliven Bundy

[Lando Lincoln]

Luis... I respect your words also. I read every one.

[Luis Gonzalez]

Luis... I respect your words also. I read every one.

As I respect yours, and so many others here.

Thank you.

[Luis Gonzalez]

And welcome home to you as well! I pretty much followed the religion part but not so much on the politics part. LOL!

I did a LOT of advocating for the  Fairtax over there just as I do here.

BTW Bigun. Whenever we disagree, we never seem to be disagreeable to one another.

I respect your passion and your honesty.

[olde north church]

Didn't take it that way.

It had to do with Beck's "unfriend" comment if you want violence or revolution or some such thing.  Jonah Goldberg said something about this isn't the right battle or something like that.  To his credit, Tucker Carlson gave some a 2 or 3 reasons why people could support Bundy but ultimately, not a good thing to do, there are better causes.
Back to Beck, was there any doubt he's a flim-flam artist?  I'm surprised Levin gave him the time a day to change his opinion of him.  Levin's an attorney, he should be wary of geeks bearing grift.

[MACVSOG68]

And welcome home to you as well! I pretty much followed the religion part but not so much on the politics part. LOL!

I did a LOT of advocating for the  Fairtax over there just as I do here.

We had some good tax debates here a few years ago Bigun.  If any tax bills are seriously considered in Congress this year, Ocean and I will likely be engaging in the issue.  I haven't heard anything about the Fairtax in a long time.  Would make for some good discussions.

[olde north church]

You're so incredibly disingenuous.

Imagine for a minute that this was a discussion on black/white racial inequality, and that I was the one black guy on the thread arguing that such inequality existed, when you comment that "most n$#^ers think that way", and when I take offense at the slur, your best response is "I was talking about other n$#^ers that are not here" because you lack both the courage and the intelligence to stand by your own words.

Well, when you decide to call the people who hold the same position that I hold on this debate "Constitutional cuckolds", then you're saying that I am a "Constitutional cuckold". 

You both talk a lot of smack about facing down the gubmint from the comfort of your living room, but I when I challenge you, your convictions fold up like a cheap suit and you start claiming that you didn't mean a word of what you said.

Have the courage to own what you said, and that you said it to someone that's here, not people who have zero chance of reading this thread.

Read this and read this well, if you were my intended target, I would have addressed you.  I didn't say I didn't mean a word of what I said.  I said that specific comment wasn't directed at you.
Considering the challenges I have faced in my reality, some Internet tough guy puffing up his chest means little to me.  The funny thing, when you ran off with your knickers in a twist, I actually sent you a note asking for your blog address.  I found your takes interesting.
Carry on with your bon vivantness and I'll carry on with my knuckle-dragging directness.

[Bigun]

BTW Bigun. Whenever we disagree, we never seem to be disagreeable to one another.

I respect your passion and your honesty.

Luis that is my recollection both here and for TOS.

I respect your opinions as well and will always try to maintain the civil nature of our discourse.

In an effort to get this thread back on it's original course, I would invite you to look at how states formed out of the land acquired by the fed gov with the Louisiana Purchase  vs those states in the west have been treated with regard to lands within their boundaries.

Ran across the article below after I posted the above and thought it relevant.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865601377/Western-states-to-feds-Turn-over-public-lands.html

[Bigun]

We had some good tax debates here a few years ago Bigun.  If any tax bills are seriously considered in Congress this year, Ocean and I will likely be engaging in the issue.  I haven't heard anything about the Fairtax in a long time.  Would make for some good discussions.

LOL! if you get bored perhaps a stroll through my posting history here would be of interest! Ocean and I have become very well acquainted in the tax arena. 

[Luis Gonzalez]

Luis that is my recollection both here and for TOS.

I respect your opinions as well and will always try to maintain the civil nature of our discourse.

In an effort to get this thread back on it's original course, I would invite you to look at how states formed out of the land acquired by the fed gov with the Louisiana Purchase  vs those states in the west have been treated with regard to lands within their boundaries.

Ran across the article below after I posted the above and thought it relevant.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865601377/Western-states-to-feds-Turn-over-public-lands.html

I get that, however, the US Constitution is clear on what constitutes State powers:

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

The Constitution gives the power over the management of lands held in the public trust to the United States, and it does not prohibit the States from turning ownership of any portion of its territory over to the United States. The case would then have to be made that the drafters of the Nevada Constitution entered onto that agreement against their free will, which would be extremely difficult to prove at this point in time due to the serious lack of witnesses to the negotiations.

So, let's imagine for a minute that this clause in the Nevada Constitution could in fact be overturned... the existence of the State itself would be in jeopardy, land sales by the United States in the last 150 years  would (theoretically) be null and void, and the cost of the management of the lands in question would become the sole responsibility of the State of Nevada and its tax base.

I read somewhere that the cost of the management program is substantially higher than the worth of the fees received, so the program itself is heavily subsidized by the United States. That would become Nevada's nut to crack since Federal subsidies would be gone.

The land could be privatized, but i don't know that Cliven Bundy has the means to purchase 750,000 to use as grazing land for his cattle, so the land itself would be purchased by people of more significant means who would then have every right to charge whatever price they see fit for use of the land.   

IIRC, Bundy is supposed to be paying somewhere below $2/month per cow/calf combination, while the average grazing fee on private land in the West is $16.80 a month, according to the Congressional Research Service, and ranges between $2.28 and $150 on state lands in the region.

If $2/month per cow/calf combination to pay the Feds can break a Nevada rancher, I don't know that the alternative is really a good idea.