Author Topic: McCain: Cruz 'Crossed Line' by Mocking GOP Presidential Losers  (Read 10023 times)

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Offline xyno

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Re: McCain: Cruz 'Crossed Line' by Mocking GOP Presidential Losers
« Reply #75 on: March 09, 2014, 04:40:02 pm »
I see your point I really do but go back in the thread and read the Cruz quote. He never dissed their military service. Possibly he could have done this without naming names but way too big of a deal is being made of this. It was not a 'you betcha; from Palin- point. That characterizes it in the wrong vein. We will have to agree to disagree.  :laugh: :beer:
Of course he didn't disparage their service.  In fact, someone upthread pointed out he referred to them as good and honorable men.  But he had to know there would be backlash.  If he didn't, he misjudged.  Or, he didn't care.  Either way, poor.  My opinion.
 :beer:
« Last Edit: March 09, 2014, 04:49:21 pm by xyno »

Offline Olivia

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Re: McCain: Cruz 'Crossed Line' by Mocking GOP Presidential Losers
« Reply #76 on: March 09, 2014, 04:56:35 pm »
Why is it that Ted Cruz's statements are picked apart for some underlying slanderous statement when all democrats and most of the GOPe say what they want to say, including John McCain and it's OK?
Isn't McCain the one that called Ted Cruz a "wacko bird?"

He's nothing but a jealous old man that can't stand the popularity of Ted Cruz and some of the other young guns that are trying to wrench the party from these old fossils that have ruined this country!
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Offline sinkspur

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Re: McCain: Cruz 'Crossed Line' by Mocking GOP Presidential Losers
« Reply #77 on: March 09, 2014, 05:00:44 pm »
Of course he didn't disparage their service.  In fact, someone upthread pointed out he referred to them as good and honorable men.  But he had to know there would be backlash.  If he didn't, he misjudged.  Or, he didn't care.  Either way, poor.  My opinion.
 :beer:

That they are "good and honorable men" was a throwaway line.  Because, you see, they are not men of principle.

He left it for the audience to conclude that they are not, in fact, good and honorable men because they have no principle.
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Re: McCain: Cruz 'Crossed Line' by Mocking GOP Presidential Losers
« Reply #78 on: March 09, 2014, 05:01:02 pm »
Why is it that Ted Cruz's statements are picked apart for some underlying slanderous statement when all democrats and most of the GOPe say what they want to say, including John McCain and it's OK?
Isn't McCain the one that called Ted Cruz a "wacko bird?"

He's nothing but a jealous old man that can't stand the popularity of Ted Cruz and some of the other young guns that are trying to wrench the party from these old fossils that have ruined this country!

Well said! I couldn't agree more!
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Offline Gazoo

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Re: McCain: Cruz 'Crossed Line' by Mocking GOP Presidential Losers
« Reply #79 on: March 09, 2014, 05:05:58 pm »

Isn't McCain the one that called Ted Cruz a "wacko bird?"


It is okay for the dem lite 2.0 to say whatever the hell he likes. Notice Cruz did not whine about it and cite his resume' and say HOW DARE you attack me?

They know damn well they were being called out for being RINO's and that they served their country in the Military facet has absolutely nothing to do with their failed politics.
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Re: McCain: Cruz 'Crossed Line' by Mocking GOP Presidential Losers
« Reply #80 on: March 09, 2014, 05:06:33 pm »
Ted Cruz is a bombthrower who doesn't care who he maligns as long as it splashes back favorably on him. 

Teddy boy should be careful.  VOTERS picked Dole, and McCain, and Romney.  He's dreaming if he thinks most Republican voters would vote for him for the 2016 nomination.
Let's make something clear.

In states where the primaries had active competition, most of those people got about 30-35% of the vote at best. In other words, more Republicans voted AGAINST the winner than for. Yet, because runoffs don't happen in the primaries, the best candidates were forced out by two spoiled-brat states that insist on being first in line every election, and the other 65-70% of the vote had fractured and flat-out wrong priorities (ahem, Bible Belt, I'm looking at you), it screwed up the chance for any real anti-establishment candidate gaining traction.
Cruz believes, in his heart, that he is so damned much better than Bob Dole, John McCain, and Mitt Romney.  He's unique, you see;  there's been no one like him in the conservative movement, ever.  He's way better than you and me. 

He's a man of principle.  There are no other men of principle in the conservative movement, let alone the Republican party.  Or so Ted Cruz would lead you to believe.

He's heroic.
He's courageous.

He's messianic, even.

Sound like somebody else who came on the scene ten years ago?
If you mean the guy who won the Presidency, twice, despite the fiercest opposition in decades the second time... I fail to see how that's a bad thing for our side.
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Offline sinkspur

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Re: McCain: Cruz 'Crossed Line' by Mocking GOP Presidential Losers
« Reply #81 on: March 09, 2014, 05:11:55 pm »

 If you mean the guy who won the Presidency, twice, despite the fiercest opposition in decades the second time... I fail to see how that's a bad thing for our side.

Arrogant narcissism is arrogant narcissism and is deplorable no matter who the narcissist is.  Cruz may be consciously traveling the same road Obama traveled, thinking it will work for him as well.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Online Lando Lincoln

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Re: McCain: Cruz 'Crossed Line' by Mocking GOP Presidential Losers
« Reply #82 on: March 09, 2014, 05:14:33 pm »
Don't worry, Gazoo, I gave up arguing on message boards long ago.  I simply don't care what people think.  I post my opinion, and leave it at that.

Agreed. I hardly want to do that!
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Offline katzenjammer

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Re: McCain: Cruz 'Crossed Line' by Mocking GOP Presidential Losers
« Reply #83 on: March 09, 2014, 05:15:00 pm »
Why is it that Ted Cruz's statements are picked apart for some underlying slanderous statement when all democrats and most of the GOPe say what they want to say, including John McCain and it's OK?
Isn't McCain the one that called Ted Cruz a "wacko bird?"

He's nothing but a jealous old man that can't stand the popularity of Ted Cruz and some of the other young guns that are trying to wrench the party from these old fossils that have ruined this country!

 goopo

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Re: McCain: Cruz 'Crossed Line' by Mocking GOP Presidential Losers
« Reply #84 on: March 09, 2014, 05:23:30 pm »
Why is it that Ted Cruz's statements are picked apart for some underlying slanderous statement when all democrats and most of the GOPe say what they want to say, including John McCain and it's OK?
Isn't McCain the one that called Ted Cruz a "wacko bird?"

He's nothing but a jealous old man that can't stand the popularity of Ted Cruz and some of the other young guns that are trying to wrench the party from these old fossils that have ruined this country!

That's all well and good.  But what was the purpose of Cruz naming names?  He certainly must know that every word will be parsed, every move dissected. What was the net-net result he expected?  Call it instinct, call it savvy, call it what you like... It is woefully absent too often.
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Oceander

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Re: McCain: Cruz 'Crossed Line' by Mocking GOP Presidential Losers
« Reply #85 on: March 09, 2014, 05:23:56 pm »
I agree with you totally.  In my view, Senator Cruz needs to develop better savvy and craft.  His message is right, but his delivery and tactic ruins it at times. A lot of times.  He did not need to call out a man such as Bob Dole by name in the way that he did, for example.  He simply didn't.

I will say, as I have said before, it seems to me that Rand Paul has that savvy.  But still... so unseasoned.

Don't know about Rand Paul, but :thumbsup: as to Cruz

Oceander

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Re: McCain: Cruz 'Crossed Line' by Mocking GOP Presidential Losers
« Reply #86 on: March 09, 2014, 05:28:20 pm »
Why is it that Ted Cruz's statements are picked apart for some underlying slanderous statement when all democrats and most of the GOPe say what they want to say, including John McCain and it's OK?
Isn't McCain the one that called Ted Cruz a "wacko bird?"

He's nothing but a jealous old man that can't stand the popularity of Ted Cruz and some of the other young guns that are trying to wrench the party from these old fossils that have ruined this country!


If Mr. Cruz can't stand the heat, then perhaps he shouldn't be in the kitchen.  Criticism is never fair, never even-handed, never evenly distributed, and - in particular - is generally aimed first and foremost at the newcomer, the boat-rocker, etc.  And that is not limited to politics, it happens in almost every field of human endeavor:  criticism of Cruz pales in comparison to Galileo's travails regarding heliocentrism.

Offline katzenjammer

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Re: McCain: Cruz 'Crossed Line' by Mocking GOP Presidential Losers
« Reply #87 on: March 09, 2014, 05:30:54 pm »
That's all well and good.  But what was the purpose of Cruz naming names?  He certainly must know that every word will be parsed, every move dissected. What was the net-net result he expected?  Call it instinct, call it savvy, call it what you like... It is woefully absent too often.

I don't know if he ever expected that it would be analyzed and dissected to this level.  It was merely a rhetorical device, it's been used before.  "We all remember President {fill_in_the_blank_of_a_candidate_that_lost}!!"  It certainly wasn't anything new, and I believe that those pre-disposed to not like Cruz tend to jump on it, his fans cheer him for it, and the vast majority of the public doesn't even know that he said it!!

Offline Olivia

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Re: McCain: Cruz 'Crossed Line' by Mocking GOP Presidential Losers
« Reply #88 on: March 09, 2014, 05:42:30 pm »
Oh, for crying out loud!  We get a good man, a good conservative and his every word is picked apart like vultures devouring their prey.  Aren't we all on the same side?  Didn't Mitt Romney play Mr. nice guy and where did that get him? 
Bob Dole, John McCain, Mitt Romney are all part of the Mr. Nice Guy club according to them but they don't win elections.  Wonder why?
It's no wonder republicans don't win most elections.  A few little words taken out of context and they all develop the vapors at the uncouthness of it all.  Sheesh! 

Just to set the record straight, I voted for Rand Paul on this board but I'd take Ted Cruz as well.
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Offline andy58-in-nh

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Re: McCain: Cruz 'Crossed Line' by Mocking GOP Presidential Losers
« Reply #89 on: March 09, 2014, 05:48:45 pm »
There are some whose intense personal dislike of Ted Cruz leads them to dismiss the veracity of his arguments.

The fact remains that the GOP has a significant recent history of nominating losers and near-losers, all of whom share the common trait of either rejecting principled Conservativism or else soft-peddling it while alienating the voters whose support is integral to its success.

As a consequence, many people who over time might have been attracted to Conservative values have failed to be attracted, or even much impressed.

That said, I found Ted Cruz's CPA speech to be somewhat off-putting and self-referential, as compared with those of other presenters. Part of the problem, at least for me is his manner, which brings to mind that of a televangelist, as opposed to a statesman. He has a habit of folding his hands in front of him while standing away from the podium, of speaking with odd pauses and emphases, and of making facial expressions that don't quite mirror the words he speaks.

And so, even when he speaks the truth, I find myself not quite trusting him. In this respect, he reminds me entirely of too many slick politicians who know the script but fail to convey sincerity.  I think that's a problem for a presumptive Presidential candidate. It's a problem because I happen to like him and agree with him on so much, and yet... How much more difficult will his task be be to appeal to those he needs to attract and impress?

Rick Perry, for his part, made a very good speech, but was also guilty of theatrics that I though distracted from the power of his words.

Sarah Palin made a very funny, lighthearted, self-deprecating and occasionally inspiring speech that consolidated my opinion of her: a charismatic spokesperson who has a talented ear for popular cultural references, who to my pleasure revels in driving liberals absolutely bat-guano insane, but not one who truly inspires as a Presidential candidate. 

I thought that Chris Christie, who I am always prepared to dislike, delivered a surprisingly solid performance, discussing substantive issues in an engaging manner, and promoting his very real accomplishments in New Jersey. He also drives Democrats crazy, which as is the case with Ms. Palin, always brings a smile to one's face.

Watching MSNBC's frantic round-the-clock coverage of "Tollbooth-gate", or whatever one wishes to call it, was amusing in the same way that one might enjoy the spectacle of a particularly loud and annoying theater-goer in the seat in front of you dumping his ice-cold Big Gulp all over his lap.

Bobby Jindal, more relaxed and Louisiana-inflected than I have ever seen him, had one of the best lines of the convention: "You know, we have long thought and said this president is a smart man. It may be time to revisit that assumption, or at least to make a distinction between being book-smart and being truly wise. And so today, let it be heard — and I hope he's watching — to President Carter, I want to issue a sincere apology. It is no longer fair to say he was the worst president of this great country in my lifetime. President Obama has proven me wrong."

Marco Rubio, both youthful and energetic, also made a solid showing, scoring solid points on presentation and on having an appropriately sincere tone. He also made a pretty smart and telling comment: "And let me tell you, it's pretty impressive when you get to Washington, you go into these meetings, you start looking around the room and you see so-and-so there on ‘Meet the Press.’ Look at so-and-so, he ran for president, look at so-and-so. It's pretty amazing. And you start wondering to yourself, man, how did I get here? And about six months later, you look around the same room, and you say, man, how did they get here?"

Finally, I thought that Rand Paul gave the best speech of all: substantive, thoughtful, inspirational, forward-looking, appropriately defiant, and idea-driven. And yes, I know, he quoted Pink Floyd (from "The Wall"), but (A) it's a great song and (B) it's sadly, and disturbingly all coming true.
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Oceander

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Re: McCain: Cruz 'Crossed Line' by Mocking GOP Presidential Losers
« Reply #90 on: March 09, 2014, 05:57:24 pm »
We are in a battle for the heart and soul of the Republican party and our county as well! That being the case,  anyone who thinks I'm about to shut up and let the establishment LOSERS win the battles has another think coming!
 

No, you're not.  That ship sailed in 2012, 2013 at the latest.  Right now you're in a fight that will guarantee the democrats win this Nov.  It's too late to continue this noxious in-fighting; if we - that means everyone - don't close ranks, start focusing on defeating the democrats rather than each other, and don't start doing so based on practical realities rather than abstract theoretical "principles", then we've done nothing more than guarantee that this country will go down to defeat - precisely the result you say you're fighting against.

And I'm tired of hearing the corollary "argument" of "we will if they will" with the implicit "but they have to go first"; that is so utterly childish that I am surprised that anyone who isn't still in training pants thinks it's an argument.  If nobody takes the first step, then everybody ends up losing.  It's the grownup, the one more dedicated to principles than ego, who would take the first step and would rise above the childishness of the other side.  So far I don't see any adults in the crowd, not Cruz, not McCain, not Boehner, not ....   You name it.  Look, fundamentally we're all on the same side, we just seem to have forgotten that point.  That means that the side that rises above the other first is not simply setting itself up to be cannon fodder; we will listen to each other in much more good faith than the enemy - the democrats/libs/progs - ever will.

Here's what I would like to see:  a ringing defense, in plain English and with a focus on positives, not on negatives - I am so tired of hearing how our side is going to trash their side - of why small 'c' conservativism and republicanism is the real medicine for what ails this country.  First, how about a straightforward articulation of the fundamental principles the republican party sees as being important to the US?  Other than some rancid xenophobic immigration fantasies, big government nostrums to combat some unrealistic stereotypes about homosexuals, and a quixotic fascination with abortion - quixotic because (a) it will never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever come to fruition, and (b) provably runs off otherwise sympathetic voters - I really no longer understand what the republicans - including the so-called conservative republicans - stand for; all I get is a sense that some factions are against this, some against that, and right now each faction in the republican party is more against the other factions than against the democrats.

Second, how about a straightforward application of those principles to reality and an explanation for why those principles will lead to an improvement in peoples' lives that cannot happen under the sirens' song that passes for democrat party principles and policies?  This is very important because, quite frankly, some of the benefits to be had from republican principles are counterintuitive (keeping in mind that those "principles" are as I imagine they might be, using Reagan as a benchmark of sorts).  How does taking away unemployment benefits help the people whose benefits got taken away?  How do we plan to manage short-term pain in order to ensure that we reach long-term benefit? 

Why is it, exactly, that private businesses in competition with each other can provide better services at less cost than the government and nonprofits can, given that private businesses are expected to provide dividends to their owners that government and nonprofits do not have to provide since they have no owners?  It is that point, more than most others, that democrats/libs/progs cannot understand (or wish to cover up if they do understand because it gets in the way of their totalitarian motivations), and that takes more than a grade-school education in economics for the average nonpolitical person to understand.  Answer that question and you basically refute the arguments in favor of government as single-payer for health care costs.

No matter how rosy the Promised Land is, it's still off in the distance and unless you can convince people to make the grinding march over the hot desert sands to get there, they simply won't go.  And so far, all I see is squabbling over who's going to be the leader of that march and precious little concern for how we're going to get everyone else to make that march.

Offline Howie66

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Re: McCain: Cruz 'Crossed Line' by Mocking GOP Presidential Losers
« Reply #91 on: March 09, 2014, 05:57:55 pm »
To Olivia:
Quote
Aren't we all on the same side?

In a word, NO.

The GOP Establishment is not on the same side as the Conservative movement and hasn't been for quite some time. These people are perfectly satisfied with the way things are as long as they have control of the party. As long as they can attend the Washington parties, take their little junkets to exotic places on our dime and have their perks and benefits while at the same time NOT having to be accountable, responsible or accomplishing anything at all, they are happy.

Winning brings expectations of results and that's not acceptable.

John Boehner, Mitch McConnell, John Wayne McCornyn and John McCain are perfect examples of what I am talking about. They are perfectly willing to see our country deteriorate as long as they can stay in positions of limited power as long as they have the perks.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2014, 05:58:56 pm by Howie66 »
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I didn't enlist in the Corps just to watch my country become a Third World Communist Shit-hole. Don't know anyone who did.

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Re: McCain: Cruz 'Crossed Line' by Mocking GOP Presidential Losers
« Reply #92 on: March 09, 2014, 05:58:58 pm »
Oh, for crying out loud!  We get a good man, a good conservative and his every word is picked apart like vultures devouring their prey.  Aren't we all on the same side?  Didn't Mitt Romney play Mr. nice guy and where did that get him? 
Bob Dole, John McCain, Mitt Romney are all part of the Mr. Nice Guy club according to them but they don't win elections.  Wonder why?
It's no wonder republicans don't win most elections.  A few little words taken out of context and they all develop the vapors at the uncouthness of it all.  Sheesh! 

Just to set the record straight, I voted for Rand Paul on this board but I'd take Ted Cruz as well.
If we don't get behind our own men and support them, who is going to do it?


If Mr. Cruz & Co. are so much better than Romney, et al, then why do they feel the need to stoop to Romney's level and insult him?  Does the eagle waste his time insulting the sparrow?

Offline MBB1984

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Re: McCain: Cruz 'Crossed Line' by Mocking GOP Presidential Losers
« Reply #93 on: March 09, 2014, 06:02:08 pm »
That they are "good and honorable men" was a throwaway line.  Because, you see, they are not men of principle.

He left it for the audience to conclude that they are not, in fact, good and honorable men because they have no principle.

No, he left it clear to the audience that McCain, Dole and Romney are not true Conservatives.  Indeed, they are not.

Oceander

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Re: McCain: Cruz 'Crossed Line' by Mocking GOP Presidential Losers
« Reply #94 on: March 09, 2014, 06:04:20 pm »
To Olivia:
In a word, NO.

The GOP Establishment is not on the same side as the Conservative movement and hasn't been for quite some time. These people are perfectly satisfied with the way things are as long as they have control of the party. As long as they can attend the Washington parties, take their little junkets to exotic places on our dime and have their perks and benefits while at the same time NOT having to be accountable, responsible or accomplishing anything at all, they are happy.

Winning brings expectations of results and that's not acceptable.

John Boehner, Mitch McConnell, John Wayne McCornyn and John McCain are perfect examples of what I am talking about. They are perfectly willing to see our country deteriorate as long as they can stay in positions of limited power as long as they have the perks.

You know, if conservatives spent half as much time as democrats do protesting and tromping around and writing letters and button-holing their representatives - on a day-to-day basis and on particular, concrete issues, not on abstract principles and not just at election time - then they might get somewhere.  Tell me, how many avowed conservatives have run concerted campaigns to win the secretary of state position in as many states as possible?  That's not a high-visibility office but I can tell you this, the secretary of state controls a lot more of the underpinnings of the system than do the Senators and Representatives.  For example, the SoS has its hands on the balls of the election system - squeeze them one way and out pop consistent electoral victories for libs/progs, squeeze them the other way, and who knows.  What about for attorney general in the states?  that's a more high profile office, but it's still not as "sexy" as governor and senator/representative, but it sets more of the day-to-day policy than do the "sexy" offices.

Oceander

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Re: McCain: Cruz 'Crossed Line' by Mocking GOP Presidential Losers
« Reply #95 on: March 09, 2014, 06:05:20 pm »
No, he left it clear to the audience that McCain, Dole and Romney are not true Conservatives.  Indeed, they are not.

What is a "true conservative"?  I keep hearing that term bandied about, but I have yet to hear anyone unpack it and lay out in detail what it means.

Offline DCPatriot

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Re: McCain: Cruz 'Crossed Line' by Mocking GOP Presidential Losers
« Reply #96 on: March 09, 2014, 06:07:36 pm »
I'm done with trying to play nice with the few of Sinkspur's ilk around here!

I am deeply offended to be classified as "Sinkspur's ilk"!   



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Offline MBB1984

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Re: McCain: Cruz 'Crossed Line' by Mocking GOP Presidential Losers
« Reply #97 on: March 09, 2014, 06:10:45 pm »
If Mr. Cruz & Co. are so much better than Romney, et al, then why do they feel the need to stoop to Romney's level and insult him?  Does the eagle waste his time insulting the sparrow?

Cruz never said he was "better" than Romney, et al, only that he was a true Conservative and they are not.  Cruz is much more Conservative than those three losing candidates.  He did not insult them, unless speaking the truth is considered by the GOPe as "insulting."   Cruz merely distinguished himself from them on ideological grounds which is necessary to led the GOP away from the path of inevitable defeat.

 Of course, the GOP "moderates" can't handle the truth.

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Re: McCain: Cruz 'Crossed Line' by Mocking GOP Presidential Losers
« Reply #98 on: March 09, 2014, 06:11:14 pm »
I am deeply offended to be classified as "Sinkspur's ilk"!   



 :laugh:

I thought he meant "elk"!




Online Bigun

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Re: McCain: Cruz 'Crossed Line' by Mocking GOP Presidential Losers
« Reply #99 on: March 09, 2014, 06:12:09 pm »
To Olivia:
In a word, NO.

The GOP Establishment is not on the same side as the Conservative movement and hasn't been for quite some time. These people are perfectly satisfied with the way things are as long as they have control of the party. As long as they can attend the Washington parties, take their little junkets to exotic places on our dime and have their perks and benefits while at the same time NOT having to be accountable, responsible or accomplishing anything at all, they are happy.

Winning brings expectations of results and that's not acceptable.

John Boehner, Mitch McConnell, John Wayne McCornyn and John McCain are perfect examples of what I am talking about. They are perfectly willing to see our country deteriorate as long as they can stay in positions of limited power as long as they have the perks.


 :amen: :amen: and  :amen:
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien