Author Topic: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China  (Read 72710 times)

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Offline Gazoo

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #275 on: March 12, 2014, 08:42:08 pm »
The story keeps changing.  There is something very wrong going on here.

Yeah even a third world country could load up a fleet of Gilligan's and have found the plane by now.
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Offline Chieftain

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #276 on: March 12, 2014, 10:06:03 pm »
The story keeps changing.  There is something very wrong going on here.

That would be the involvement of the media.  It is not unusual to find that nearly all of the initial reports during an incident like this one are not only wrong, but wildly wrong.


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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #277 on: March 12, 2014, 10:08:49 pm »
Apparently big planes can, and have, disappeared from time to time without ever being found, or only being found after several years.  For example, in 2003 a 727 from out of Luanda, vanished, and was never found.  In 1979 a 707 disappeared over the Pacific after leaving Tokyo.  In 1990 a 727 that took off from Reykjavik, Iceland, was never found.  Even in less strange cases it can take days before a crashed plane is found.  in 2007 it took 10 days to find the first wreckage of an Indonesian 737 that crashed near Sulawesi.

This appears to be the largest plane that has ever gone missing for this long, but it doesn't seem to be too far out of line with other planes that have disappeared never to be found.

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #278 on: March 12, 2014, 10:09:16 pm »
Yeah even a third world country could load up a fleet of Gilligan's and have found the plane by now.

Unfortunately that's not always the case.

Offline happyg

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #279 on: March 12, 2014, 10:15:25 pm »
Bret Baier just said China spotted three large pieces of what they believe to be part of the plane. He said, "More on this later".

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #280 on: March 12, 2014, 10:17:42 pm »
http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/12/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-plane/index.html

Satellite looking into missing Malaysia flight detects 'suspected crash area'
By Jethro Mullen and Michael Pearson, CNN
updated 5:15 PM EDT, Wed March 12, 2014

(CNN) -- A Chinese satellite looking into the mysterious disappearance of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 "observed a suspected crash area at sea," a Chinese government agency said -- a potentially pivotal lead into what has been a frustrating search for the Boeing 777.

China's State Administration for Science, Technology and Industry for National Defense announced the discovery, including images of what it said were "three suspected floating objects and their sizes." The objects aren't small at 13 by 18 meters (43 by 59 feet), 14 by 19 meters and 24 by 22 meters.

The images were captured on March 9 -- which was the day after the plane went missing -- but weren't released until Wednesday.

The Chinese agency gave coordinates of 105.63 east longitude, 6.7 north latitude, which would put it in waters northeast of where it took off in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, and south of Vietnam.

This isn't the first time authorities have announced they were looking at objects or oil slicks that might be tied to aircraft. Still, it is the latest and comes on the same day that officials, rather than narrowing the search area, more than doubled it from the day earlier to nearly 27,000 square nautical miles (35,000 square miles).

Earlier Wednesday, officials announced they had once again expanded the search area. It now covers nearly 27,000 square nautical miles, more than double the size of the area being searched just a day before.

Such a dramatic expansion at this stage of the investigation is troubling, said CNN aviation expert Richard Quest.

"At this stage in the investigation and search and rescue, I would have expected to see by now a much more defined understanding of what the route was, where the plane was headed and a narrowing of the search consequent upon that," he said on CNN's "New Day."

Indeed, the lack of a clear direction prompted Vietnam to say that it's pulling back on its search efforts until Malaysian authorities come up with better information on where to look for the plane.

Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 vanished early Saturday with 239 people on board during a flight between Kuala Lumpur and Beijing.

Phan Quy Tieu, Vietnam's vice minister of transportation, said the information Malaysian officials provided was "insufficient."

"Up until now we only had one meeting with a Malaysian military attache," he said.

For now, Vietnamese teams will stop searching the sea south of Ca Mau province, the southern tip of Vietnam, and shift the focus to areas east of Ca Mau, said Doan Luu, the director of international affairs at the Vietnamese Civil Aviation Authority.

At a news conference Wednesday, Malaysian transportation minister Hishamuddin Bin Hussein defended his government's approach.

"We have been very consistent in the search," he said.



Confusion over flight path

But even figuring out where authorities believe the plane may have gone down has been a difficult and shifting proposition.

In the immediate aftermath of the plane's disappearance, search and rescue efforts were focused on the Gulf of Thailand, along the expected flight path between Malaysia and Vietnam.

Over the weekend, authorities suddenly expanded their search to the other side of the Malay Peninsula, in the Strait of Malacca, where search efforts now seem to be concentrated.

That location is hundreds of miles off the plane's expected flight path.

An explanation appeared to come Tuesday when a senior Malaysian Air Force official told CNN that the Air Force had tracked the plane to a spot near the small island of Palau Perak off Malaysia's west coast in the Straits of Malacca.

The plane's identifying transponder had stopped sending signals, too, said the official, who declined to be identified because he was not authorized to speak to the media.

Malaysia's civilian administration appeared to dispute the report, however.

The New York Times quoted a spokesman for the Malaysian prime minister's office as saying Tuesday that military officials had told him there was no evidence the plane had flown back over the Malay Peninsula to the Straits of Malacca.

The Prime Minister's office didn't immediately return calls from CNN seeking comment.

Then, in another shift, Malaysian authorities said at a news conference Wednesday that radar records reviewed in the wake of the plane's disappearance reveal an unidentified aircraft traveling across the Malay Peninsula and some 200 miles into the Straits of Malacca.

However, it wasn't clear whether that radar signal represented Malaysia Airlines Flight 370, Gen. Rodzali Daud, head of the Malaysian Air Force, said at the news conference.

Rodzali said that officials are still "examining and analyzing all possibilities" when it comes to the plane's flight path.

Malaysian officials are asking experts from the U.S. Federal Aviation Authority and National Transportation Safety Board to help them analyze the radar data.

The FAA said Wednesday that it "stands ready to provide any necessary additional support."

The agency has already sent two technical experts and another official to Kuala Lumpur as part of a NTSB investigative team.



No trace

The search zones includes huge swaths of ocean on each side of the Malay Peninsula, as well as land.

Forty-two ships and 39 planes from 12 countries have been searching the sea between the northeast coast of Malaysia and southwest Vietnam, the area where the plane lost contact with air traffic controllers.

But they are also looking off the west coast of the Malay Peninsula, in the Straits of Malacca, and north into the Andaman Sea.

So far, searchers have found no trace of the plane.

What happened leading to the plane's disappearance also remains a mystery. Leading theories include hijacking, an explosion or a catastrophic mechanical failure.

Suggestions that the plane had veered off course and that its identifying transponder was not working raise obvious concerns about a hijacking, analysts tell CNN. But a catastrophic power failure or other problem could also explain the anomalies, analysts say.

In a sign authorities are looking at all options, Kuala Lumpur police told CNN they are searching the home of the airliner's Capt. Zaharie Ahmad Shah.

They were also questioning a man who hosted two Iranians who boarded the flight on stolen passports, the man -- Mohammad Mallaei -- told CNN on Wednesday.

Authorities have previously said they do not believe the men had any connection to terror groups.

Families' frustration

As the vexing search drags on, frustration has grown among friends and family of those who were on board.

"Time is passing by. The priority should be to search for the living," a middle-aged man shouted before breaking into sobs during a meeting with airline officials in Beijing on Tuesday. His son, he said, was one of the passengers aboard the plane.

Other people at the meeting also voiced their frustration at the lack of information.

Most of those on the flight were Chinese, and the Chinese government has urged Malaysia to speed up the pace of its investigation.

Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak on Wednesday appealed for patience.

"The families involved have to understand that this is something unexpected," Najib said. "The families must understand more efforts have been made with all our capabilities."

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Online DCPatriot

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #281 on: March 12, 2014, 10:20:43 pm »
Good.....about time! 
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Oceander

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #282 on: March 12, 2014, 10:23:19 pm »
Bret Baier just said China spotted three large pieces of what they believe to be part of the plane. He said, "More on this later".

Apparently they have satellite images that appear to show something(s) large floating in the water.  There's an article here (with pix): http://www.businessinsider.com/reported-chinese-satellite-images-2014-3

Here's some of the pix China has:




This image shows the relation of the location of the satellite images to the last known position of the plane:




Offline flowers

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #283 on: March 12, 2014, 10:27:25 pm »
Apparently they have satellite images that appear to show something(s) large floating in the water.  There's an article here (with pix): http://www.businessinsider.com/reported-chinese-satellite-images-2014-3

Here's some of the pix China has:




This image shows the relation of the location of the satellite images to the last known position of the plane:



would this be the same area where they said it turned around to? Or is it the area of the flight path?


Oceander

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #284 on: March 12, 2014, 10:28:11 pm »
would this be the same area where they said it turned around to? Or is it the area of the flight path?

That I do not know.

Offline flowers

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #285 on: March 12, 2014, 10:31:45 pm »
That I do not know.
It almost looks like the original flight path, not the path they say the plane U turned to.


Offline Atomic Cow

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #286 on: March 12, 2014, 10:44:58 pm »
That piece of debris was seen to the SE of the flight track.

That said, until they get real eyes on it, there is no way to know what it is.  For all they know, it is some piece of junk which some ship tossed overboard.
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Oceander

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #287 on: March 12, 2014, 11:16:04 pm »
That piece of debris was seen to the SE of the flight track.

That said, until they get real eyes on it, there is no way to know what it is.  For all they know, it is some piece of junk which some ship tossed overboard.

which way do the dominant currents flow in that area?

Offline Atomic Cow

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #288 on: March 12, 2014, 11:18:05 pm »
which way do the dominant currents flow in that area?

No clue on that one.
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Oceander

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #289 on: March 12, 2014, 11:19:57 pm »
That piece of debris was seen to the SE of the flight track.

That said, until they get real eyes on it, there is no way to know what it is.  For all they know, it is some piece of junk which some ship tossed overboard.

Apparently the objects spotted are fairly large:
Quote
The objects aren't small: 13 by 18 meters (43 by 59 feet), 14 by 19 meters (46 by 62 feet) and 24 by 22 meters (79 feet by 72 feet). For reference, the wingspan of an intact Boeing 777-200ER like the one that disappeared is about 61 meters (200 feet) and its overall length is about 64 meters (210 feet).

It's entirely possible that this is unrelated stuff, but it does sound like it might be large, unraveled, chunks of an aircraft.

Offline Gazoo

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #290 on: March 12, 2014, 11:31:22 pm »
Apparently the objects spotted are fairly large:
It's entirely possible that this is unrelated stuff, but it does sound like it might be large, unraveled, chunks of an aircraft.

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Offline Rapunzel

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #291 on: March 12, 2014, 11:31:37 pm »
The Malacca Strait is one of the busiest shipping channels in the world - hard to believe a passing ship hasn't spotted something.



++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The Malacca Straits is located between Peninsular Malaysia and Sumatra Island. In terms of economic and strategic, the Malacca Straits is one of the most important shipping routes in the world, like Suez or Panama Canal. Malacca Straits is a canal shipping route between the Indian and Pacific Ocean that connects three different countries with the largest number of people in the world: India, Indonesia and China.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++








Malacca Straits tidal model likely to save thousands in bunker costs

A new high-resolution tidal model for the Malacca and Singapore Straits will potentially save ships thousands of dollars in bunker fuel costs. Simulations have shown that transit time savings of between three and 12 per cent can be made depending on vessel type, speed and tidal phase.

The high-resolution (up to 800m) Malacca and Singapore Straits commercial tidal model, developed by applied oceanography specialist Tidetech, is the first of its kind in this region and addresses one of the major needs of the 60,000 ships transiting the these channels annually – that of improved efficiency and reduced emissions.

Tidetech managing director Penny Haire said the global industry drive for improved efficiency in shipping, especially in light of the uptake of slow steaming, meant speed optimisation via the use of accurate tidal models could allow ships to save significant bunkerage.

“By arriving at the optimal time, a ship can benefit from a favourable tide or current through busy, narrow or restricted shipping channels,” Ms Haire said.

“This means a vessel can reduce speed (or maintain slow steaming speeds) and save fuel… and also means the vessel can avoid having to increase speed to counter adverse current.

“We have run a simulation for vessels steaming between 14kt and 22kt and the difference between slowest and fastest times through the Straits’ amounts to a significant difference. This means time and money is saved and emissions reduced.”

The model data is available in up to 10-minute time steps and can be integrated into ECDIS as a layer (or into other bridge systems), supplied within specialised optimisation software or as raw data.

“Our customers need a mixture of data options depending on how they want to use the information… we’re able to adapt to specific customer requirements,” Ms Haire said.

Until now the existing tidal information for the region was limited and based on short-term, single-point observations. Tidetech’s leading team of scientists have access to global bathymetry [depth] data, satellite altimetry information and local observations, which they use to calculate hydrodynamic models using highly-complex equations of motion that govern fluid dynamics.

Tidetech is exhibiting and presenting a seminar at the upcoming Green Ship Technology (GST) conference in Singapore. The talk, titled ‘Beyond Weather Routing: how next generation oceanographic data can improve route optimisation, speed optimisation and reporting’, will focus on the additional efficiencies that can be realised from applying data for ocean currents, tidal streams, sea surface temperatures and wave forecasts to a ship’s route and speed.

“Weather routing is an established tool for shipping… oceanographic data goes beyond this and is a significant resource that will add further percentages to bunker and time savings and to meeting environmental obligations… for all types of commercial vessels.”

The Green Ship Technology conference takes place on 26-27 September, 2012

Click here for more information on Tidetech commercial products







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Offline Atomic Cow

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #292 on: March 12, 2014, 11:32:41 pm »
If its in the Malacca Straits, which seems to be less than likely right now.
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Offline flowers

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #293 on: March 12, 2014, 11:33:15 pm »
MISSING MH370: Fishermen find life raft near PD

Quote
PORT DICKSON: A group of fishermen found a life raft bearing the word “Boarding” 10 nautical miles from Port Dickson town at 12pm yesterday.

One of the fishermen, Azman Mohamad, 40, said they found the badly damaged raft floating and immediately notified the Kuala Linggi Malaysian Maritime Enforcement Agency (MMEA) in Malacca for assistance to lift the raft as it was very heavy.

"We managed to tie it to our boat as we feared it would sink due to the damages," he said.

When the MMEA boat arrived, the fishermen then handed over the raft into their custody.

However, a Kuala Linggi MMEA spokesman said the raft sunk into the sea while they were trying to bring the raft onboard.



????


Offline Rapunzel

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #294 on: March 12, 2014, 11:38:36 pm »


�The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.� G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline flowers

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #295 on: March 12, 2014, 11:39:24 pm »


Floating: These images from the Chinese satellite dated March 9 appear to show what could be fuel resting on the surface of the South China Sea and were taken in the zone where the three pieces of large debris were recorded.



found this at FR from DM


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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #296 on: March 12, 2014, 11:42:57 pm »
If its in the Malacca Straits, which seems to be less than likely right now.

Personally I never thought It was in the Malacca Straits ever! The supposed radar tracking of the Malaysian military had their last contact as being over Pulau Perack island there but still at 30,000 ft.

If they kept flying in that direction they would have gone down either over Northern Sumatra or, more likely, in the Indian Ocean.

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Offline Rapunzel

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #298 on: March 12, 2014, 11:44:55 pm »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Dickson

Port Dickson, or PD to locals, is a beach and holiday destination situated about 32 km from Seremban and 90 km from Kuala Lumpur. It is located in the state of Negeri Sembilan in Peninsular Malaysia. It takes just over an hour by car to travel from Kuala Lumpur to Port Dickson along the North-South Expressway.

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Offline Atomic Cow

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #299 on: March 12, 2014, 11:44:59 pm »


Floating: These images from the Chinese satellite dated March 9 appear to show what could be fuel resting on the surface of the South China Sea and were taken in the zone where the three pieces of large debris were recorded.



found this at FR from DM

Fuel would have dispersed by now.  All commercial jets use highly refined kerosene which will quickly disperse and if it is released in the air, evaporate.  This is why the fuel that is dumped from a jet in an emergency doesn't reach the ground if the aircraft is high enough.

Just like the other oil they found, it is probably bunker oil, which is what ships use.
"...And these atomic bombs which science burst upon the world that night were strange, even to the men who used them."  H. G. Wells, The World Set Free, 1914

"The one pervading evil of democracy is the tyranny of the majority, or rather of that party, not always the majority, that succeeds, by force or fraud, in carrying elections." -Lord Acton