Author Topic: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China  (Read 72713 times)

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Offline Bigun

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #225 on: March 11, 2014, 01:12:14 am »
that still doesn't explain why the plane dropped off the radar.

They are not, I repeat NOT, always visible to ATC radar! There are large areas, mostly over oceans, where there is NO radar coverage at all!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #226 on: March 11, 2014, 01:14:40 am »
They are not, I repeat NOT, always visible to ATC radar! There are large areas, mostly over oceans, where there is NO radar coverage at all!

They weren't over the ocean.

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #227 on: March 11, 2014, 01:16:26 am »
I spoke with a retired (40years+) FAA friend a little while ago about this very thing. He informed me  that aircraft in flight are NOT always visible to ATCs on radar.  In fact there are large gaps in radar coverage in many air routes and particularly those which fly over large areas of water.  That is astonishing to me but the guy I was talking to IS an expert and has participated in the investigation of many aircraft disasters over the years.

From what I read over the weekend they were also in a handoff situation one control to another and they were having communications issues to the point they had a nearby flight on the way to Japan contact the plane...
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Offline Bigun

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #228 on: March 11, 2014, 01:23:25 am »
They weren't over the ocean.

Oh really! What do they call that body of water they are searching then?
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Gazoo

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #229 on: March 11, 2014, 01:34:49 am »
It all sounds crazy because they are not releasing all of the information. A youtube video caused this.
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Offline Rapunzel

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #230 on: March 11, 2014, 01:54:59 am »
http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2014/03/10/real-time-flight-trackers-seek-missing-malaysian-air-flight-370-find-only-holes/

Real-time flight trackers seek missing Malaysian Air flight 370, find only holes
Published March 10, 2014
FoxNews.com

    Flightradar24 tracks Malaysia Air flight 370



    March 8, 2014: Real-time flight tracker flightradar24 offers some information on Malaysian Airlines flight 370 -- but not enough to help guide rescue workers. (flightradar24)

Several online flight-tracking services can locate airplanes in real-time, using GPS navigation data transmitted from the aircraft themselves. But in the case of Malaysia Airlines flight 370, which disappeared from radar screens more than 48 hours ago, a hole in coverage maps means even these sites lack answers.

“We lost tracking for it pretty early on,” a spokesman for FlightAware told FoxNews.com.

Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370, a Boeing 777 with 239 people on board, departed Kuala Lumpur in Malaysia on March 8 at 12:43 a.m. local time en route to Beijing, China, according to FlightAware, which published a minute-by-minute tracking log of the flight. The plane was at 35,000 feet at 1:01 a.m. Saturday morning.

One minute later, the site’s data ends.

“Government regulations prohibit live flight-tracking in the area,” the company explained. “Quickly after take-off, it was outside our coverage range and we had no live position.”

Quote
FlightRadar24, another real-time flight tracking app, immediately sought to analyze its data following the plane’s disappearance. The site appears to have slightly more data, tracking flight 370 for another 15 or so minutes. Yet it, too, could not track the plane completely.

Quote
“Between [1:19 a.m. and 1:20 a.m. Malaysian time] the aircraft was changing heading from 25 to 40 degrees, which is probably completely according to flight plan as MH370 on both 4 March and 8 March did the same at the same position,” explains a post on the company’s Facebook page. “Last two signals are both showing that the aircraft is heading in direction 40 degrees.”

Then the company lost track of the plane. It did not receive any emergency “squawk” alerts.

That data comes from the ADS-B transponder on the plane -- the so called black box -- which transmits a plane’s location twice per second. Roughly 60 percent of all passenger aircraft are equipped with transponders that beam out such data, the company said.

Flightradar 24 claims to have a network of more than 3,000 ADS-B receivers around the world that receive pings from planes. But even so, locating aircraft can be a challenge.

“Due to the high frequency used (1090-MHz) the coverage from each receiver is limited to about 150-250 miles in all directions depending on location,” the company explains. “The farther away from the receiver an aircraft is flying, the higher it must fly to be covered by the receiver. The distance limit makes it very hard to get ADS-B coverage over oceans.”

Officials investigating the disappearance of the flight have been targeting the South China Sea, where oil slicks were spotted by rescue crews but ultimately determined not to belong to the aircraft.

More than 48 hours after the plane disappeared from radar screens, a multinational search team  of dozens of ships and aircraft had failed to find any sign of the plane.

“The amount of water – the distance between Vietnam and Malaysia is probably the size of the state of Pennsylvania, so there really is quite a bit of water that needs to be investigated,” Robert Mark, a commercial pilot and former air traffic controller, said Monday on “Fox & Friends.”
« Last Edit: March 11, 2014, 01:55:34 am by Rapunzel »
�The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.� G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #231 on: March 11, 2014, 02:08:49 am »
One-way tickets and were paid for with cash and only a few hours before the flight.
�The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.� G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline Atomic Cow

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #232 on: March 11, 2014, 02:11:01 am »
One-way tickets and were paid for with cash and only a few hours before the flight.

The story now is they were Iranians trying to escape from oppression and just wanted to get to Europe.  (They had continuing flights to Holland and Germany.)

Even if this turns out to be true, they should have never been allowed on the aircraft.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2014, 02:11:30 am by Atomic Cow »
"...And these atomic bombs which science burst upon the world that night were strange, even to the men who used them."  H. G. Wells, The World Set Free, 1914

"The one pervading evil of democracy is the tyranny of the majority, or rather of that party, not always the majority, that succeeds, by force or fraud, in carrying elections." -Lord Acton

Offline Atomic Cow

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #233 on: March 11, 2014, 02:43:16 am »
There are several websites which are using satellite images taken after the crash to try and find anything.

I'll have to try and find the links to the others, but this is the one I saw post a little while ago on an aviation forum.

http://www.tomnod.com/nod/challenge/malaysiaairsar2014/map/12866

Probably won't help, but it can't hurt either.
"...And these atomic bombs which science burst upon the world that night were strange, even to the men who used them."  H. G. Wells, The World Set Free, 1914

"The one pervading evil of democracy is the tyranny of the majority, or rather of that party, not always the majority, that succeeds, by force or fraud, in carrying elections." -Lord Acton

Oceander

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #234 on: March 11, 2014, 02:43:21 am »
Oh really! What do they call that body of water they are searching then?

Oh, I dunno, maybe ...

the GULF of Thailand, or
the STRAITS of Malacca, or
coastal areas of the South China SEA.

(all three are listed as being part of the search effort so far as I know).

Oceander

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #235 on: March 11, 2014, 02:45:55 am »
The story now is they were Iranians trying to escape from oppression and just wanted to get to Europe.  (They had continuing flights to Holland and Germany.)

Even if this turns out to be true, they should have never been allowed on the aircraft.

Seems to me that a one-hop one-way ticket might be more of a red flag than a one-way trip with several intermediate steps, so someone not intending to continue on might still have purchased a multi-stop ticket if they were trying to avoid discovery.

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #236 on: March 11, 2014, 04:17:21 am »
CNN JUST IN -- "Large solid debris" sighted in sea by Cathay Pacific Airways pilots

Hong Kong Civil Aviation Dept stresses there is no proof yet that this debris is related to the missing Malaysian airline.

�The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.� G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline Atomic Cow

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #237 on: March 11, 2014, 04:19:33 am »
CNN JUST IN -- "Large solid debris" sighted in sea by Cathay Pacific Airways pilots

Hong Kong Civil Aviation Dept stresses there is no proof yet that this debris is related to the missing Malaysian airline.

If this is the same debris report from yesterday, it has already been checked and discounted.
"...And these atomic bombs which science burst upon the world that night were strange, even to the men who used them."  H. G. Wells, The World Set Free, 1914

"The one pervading evil of democracy is the tyranny of the majority, or rather of that party, not always the majority, that succeeds, by force or fraud, in carrying elections." -Lord Acton

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #238 on: March 11, 2014, 04:22:11 am »
http://us.cnn.com/2014/03/10/world/asia/malaysia-plane-scenarios/index.html?sr=sharebar_twitter

What happened to Flight 370? Four scenarios fuel speculation among experts
By Thom Patterson, CNN
updated 3:23 PM EDT, Mon March 10, 2014

(CNN) -- A Boeing 777, one of the world's most reliable types of airliners, is missing, and no one knows why. Was it a bomb? Mechanical failure? A hijacking gone awry? Pilots and others in the aviation community are deeply disturbed by the mystery surrounding Malaysia Airlines Flight 370.

It disappeared Saturday en route from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing over the Gulf of Thailand, somewhere between Malaysia and Vietnam. It's hard to believe that such huge questions remain three days after the Boeing 777-200ER went missing, carrying 227 passengers and 12 crew members. These questions are so unprecedented that experts have been carefully speculating about possible explanations.

Here are four scenarios they're talking about, and the related facts:

1. Scenario: Bomb? Or 'dry run'?
Is missing jet part of a bigger plot?
Search underway for missing Flight 370
Authorities 'puzzled' by missing flight
Search area for missing plane widens

Fact: Two stolen passports have been linked to people who held tickets for the flight.

Analysis: This points to the possibility that someone on a terrorism watch list may have boarded the plane and blown it up. However, the stolen passports don't necessarily mean the plane was an actual target. It's possible, says former U.S. Department of Transportation Inspector General Mary Schiavo, that terrorists may have been performing a "dry run" for a future attack. Or, Schiavo said, "it could be just criminal business as usual," because "there are lots of stolen passports" used by travelers around the world.

Fact: So far, no debris field of plane wreckage has been linked to the 777, which would indicate a bomb blast.

Analysis: When Robert Francis, former vice chairman of the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board, heard about the missing plane, his immediate thought was: "For some reason the aircraft blew up and there was no signal, there was nothing." The fact that the plane disappeared from radar without warning indicated to Francis "there was something unprecedented that hasn't happened before."

What about satellite technology? Is it possible that data from orbiting satellites might show a flash or infrared heat signature from an explosion? Very unlikely, says satellite expert Brian Weeden, who spent years tracking space junk in orbit for the U.S. Air Force. Dozens of government and private satellites orbit the earth, looking down from distances from 300 kilometers to 1,500 kilometers (185 to 930 miles). It's a long shot that one of them coincidentally floated over at the exact right time and location to capture a flash from an explosion.

However, there's an "off chance," Weeden says, that a super secret U.S. government satellite orbiting 22,000 miles in space might have grabbed evidence. These satellites are in geosynchronous orbit. As a group, they can observe virtually the entire globe. "We know that their mission is to detect ballistic missile launches via heat," says Weeden, now a technical adviser for Secure World Foundation. "We don't know if they're sensitive enough to track something like a bomb blast, even if that's what happened."

Then there's another unanswerable question: Would the government hesitate to release such an image for fear of revealing the satellite system's ultraclassified capability?

2. Scenario: Hijacking?

Fact: Before it disappeared, radar data indicated the plane may have turned around to head back to Kuala Lumpur. Is that a clue that a hijacker had ordered the plane to change course?

Analysis: So far, there have been no reports that the flight crew sent any signals that a hijacking had occurred.

3. Scenario: Mechanical failure?
Map: Kuala Lumpur and BeijingMap: Kuala Lumpur and Beijing

Fact: The absence of a debris field suggests the possibility that pilots were forced to ditch the plane and it landed on water without breaking up, finally sinking to the ocean floor.

Analysis: But if that were the case, then why no emergency signal? These planes are able to perform a "miracle on the Hudson" maneuver. They have the ability to glide more than 100 miles and belly land on the water with both engines out, says former 777 pilot Keith Wolzinger, now a civil aviation consultant with The Spectrum Group. During the time it would take for a plane to glide 100 miles, it seems likely that pilots would be able able to send an SOS.

Fact: The missing plane had suffered a clipped wing tip in the past, but Boeing repaired it, and the jet was safe to fly, said Malaysia Airlines CEO Ahmad Jauhari Yahya on Sunday.

Analysis: "Anytime there's been previous damage to an airplane, even though it's been repaired, and repaired within standards ... it kind of sends a warning flag," says Wolzinger. Experts agree the Boeing 777 is one of the world's most reliable aircraft. During its development it was subject to some of the most rigorous testing in commercial aviation history. "I've been talking with colleagues," Wolzinger says. "We're all baffled by this." The 777 boasts some of the most powerful and well-tested engines in the world, he says. "The reliability of airliner engines in general is impeccable these days," he says. "This is a safe plane."

4. Scenario: Pilot error

Fact: So far, there are no known indications that pilot error contributed to the aircraft going missing.

Analysis: Some aviation experts have compared Flight 370 to the crash of Air France Flight 447 in 2009. All 228 passengers and crew died when the plane went down in a storm in the Atlantic en route from Brazil to Paris. After an expensive, nearly two-year search across the deep ocean floor, the twin-engine Airbus A330's wreckage was finally found and the voice and data recorders recovered. A French investigation blamed flight crew for failing to understand "they were in a stall situation and therefore never undertook any recovery maneuvers." But unlike Flight 447, weather was reported as good along Flight 370's scheduled route and didn't appear to present a threat.

Asiana Airlines Flight 217 -- a Boeing 777 -- fell short during a runway approach last July at San Francisco International Airport. Three people were killed and more than 180 others hurt. National Transportation Safety Board investigators have focused on pilot reliance on automated flight systems as a possible contributor to the crash, but a final report has not yet been released.
�The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.� G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #239 on: March 11, 2014, 04:23:17 am »
If this is the same debris report from yesterday, it has already been checked and discounted.

This is from today...

They are 14 hours ahead of California time which makes it daylight there so we are likely to only start hearing search reports late at night our time.
�The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.� G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline Atomic Cow

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #240 on: March 11, 2014, 04:26:08 am »
This is from today...

They are 14 hours ahead of California time which makes it daylight there so we are likely to only start hearing search reports late at night our time.

Yesterday there was the exact same report, almost word for word.  I just don't trust anything the US media says about aviation.  They are wrong so often I trust them more on politics than aviation.

On the aviation forums I follow, the report is being dismissed as a repeat of yesterday.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2014, 04:26:48 am by Atomic Cow »
"...And these atomic bombs which science burst upon the world that night were strange, even to the men who used them."  H. G. Wells, The World Set Free, 1914

"The one pervading evil of democracy is the tyranny of the majority, or rather of that party, not always the majority, that succeeds, by force or fraud, in carrying elections." -Lord Acton

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #241 on: March 11, 2014, 04:33:09 am »
The Associated Press ‏@AP 10m

BREAKING: Malaysia Airlines says west coast of country now the focus of search for missing plane.
�The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.� G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline olde north church

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #242 on: March 11, 2014, 10:11:53 am »
The assumption is the plane is gone.  There is no proof it no longer exists.  There are quite a few places in that part on that part of the globe where a plane could be hidden.
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Offline Gazoo

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #243 on: March 11, 2014, 03:19:53 pm »

Quote
Iranian asylum-seekers used stolen passports on Malaysia Airlines flight




Interpol said Tuesday that the two passengers who used stolen passports to board a Malaysia Airlines flight that disappeared early Saturday morning were Iranians seeking asylum in Europe.

Interpol Secretary General Ronald K. Noble identified the men as Pouri Nourmohammadi, 19, and Delavar Seyedmohammaderza, 29. Noble said that the two men had traveled to Malaysia from Tehran using Iranian passports, but had secured stolen Italian and Austrian passports in Kuala Lumpur for their journey to Beijing and Amsterdam, for which both had tickets and planned to travel together.  

Malaysian authorities said that Nourmohammadi planned to proceed from Amsterdam to Frankfurt, Germany, where his mother lives. The woman contacted authorities when her son failed to arrive as planned. The BBC reported that Seyedmohammaderza's intended final destination was Copenhagen, Denmark.

The disclosure by Interpol confirmed a report aired late Monday by the BBC's Persian service, which cited a friend of both men who hosted them at his home in Kuala Lumpur as they prepared to travel to Beijing, the final destination of the missing plane.

Over the weekend, the passports were identified as belonging to 30-year-old Austrian Christian Kozel and 37-year-old Italian Luigi Maraldi. Both men had reported that their passports had been stolen while they were traveling in Thailand.

It was not made immediately clear how the passports were sent from Thailand to Kuala Lumpur.

Sources told Fox News it is not uncommon for Iranians to travel to and from Malaysia, or to buy one-way tickets through third parties. They said the fact that the man believed to have purchased the tickets on behalf of two Iranians traveling with stolen passports seemed to be seeking the cheapest fares within a range of dates does not jibe with typical terrorism plots. The sources familiar with Iranian travel patterns also said use of stolen passports is common for those involved in the drug trade, those wanting to study or work abroad and even Iranians who seek political, religious or social refuge.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/03/11/iranians-reportedly-used-stolen-passports-on-malaysia-airlines-flight-were/
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Offline Gazoo

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #244 on: March 11, 2014, 05:52:22 pm »
Federal Register | Special Conditions: Boeing Model 777-200, -300, and -300ER Series Airplanes; Aircraft Electronic System Security Protection From Unauthorized...
https://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2013/11/18/2013-27343/special-conditions-boeing-model-777-200--300-and--300er-series-airplanes-aircraft-electronic-system
"The Tea Party has a right to feel cheated.

When does the Republican Party, put in the majority by the Tea Party, plan to honor its commitment to halt the growth of the Federal monolith and bring the budget back into balance"?

Offline Bigun

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #245 on: March 11, 2014, 06:41:39 pm »
 The Berita Harian newspaper was the first to report this development, quoting the Royal Air Force Malaysia (RMAF) chief General Tan Sri Rodzali Daud as saying they tracked the signal to Pulau Perak on the country's west coast.

"The last time the plane could be traced by an air control tower was near Pulau Perak, which is on the Straits of Malacca at 2.40am.

"After that, the signal from the plane was lost," he said.

« Last Edit: March 11, 2014, 06:51:27 pm by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Bigun

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"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Atomic Cow

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #247 on: March 11, 2014, 10:39:52 pm »
This entire event has been one big cluster on the part of the Malaysians from the start.

Also, going to sticky this topic.
"...And these atomic bombs which science burst upon the world that night were strange, even to the men who used them."  H. G. Wells, The World Set Free, 1914

"The one pervading evil of democracy is the tyranny of the majority, or rather of that party, not always the majority, that succeeds, by force or fraud, in carrying elections." -Lord Acton

Offline mountaineer

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #248 on: March 11, 2014, 10:54:56 pm »
If that's really the course the plane took - with that sharp left turn - it sure does look like hijacking or something like it was part of the equation.
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Offline ABX

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Re: Malaysia Airlines Flight Goes Missing En Route to China
« Reply #249 on: March 11, 2014, 11:05:46 pm »
Large debris field found in the waters of Vietnam.

http://english.cntv.cn/program/newsupdate/20140311/100836.shtml

Supposedly images were posted on Twitter. I'm trying to find those now.