Author Topic: On the Bright Side: Conservatives have a Future. The Trump GOP Does Not.  (Read 2466 times)

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Oceander

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On the Bright Side: Conservatives have a Future. The Trump GOP Does Not.

10 May / BY Stephen Miller

People rarely grasp history while they’re living through it.  Watershed moments are rarely recognized for what they are while we’re in the middle of them. If your mind can’t process the gravity of what you’re witnessing, it’s because what you’re witnessing right now with the end of the GOP primary and the nomination of reality TV entertainer Donald Trump is one of those moments.  Careers and conservatism will be judged based on where those in the arena stood at this moment.  Believe it.

With the Supreme Court up for grabs, a Senate now about to tilt back to the Democrats, and a state legislature majority not seen in 75 years, the GOP base simply threw it all away.  And now they are about to get everything they’ve claimed they were mad as hell about over the past four years. Why? Because they were mad, or rather told to be mad.  They’re mad about “comprehensive immigration reform” that never passed, they’re mad at budgets that will be vetoed by an uncompromising president in Barack Obama.  They’re mad about the national debt, whatever the hell they think that actually is.  They’re mad about trade, again, whatever that means to them.  They’re mad at whatever Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity have told them to be mad about between pitching iced tea and soda streams.

Donald Trump is the perfect Fox News Nominee; a nonsensical congeries of every clichéd talking point the political Left has poked conservatives with for the past decade.  He seemingly has formed his ideology from Greta polls and Breitbart comment sections.  He’s your grandfather sitting in his favorite Archie Bunker rip-off chair screaming about how This Country Is Goin’ To Hell, but with about a billion extra dollars to burn and enough spray tan to lacquer an entire Real Housewives cast three times over.  He’s the perfect soundbite candidate, and 40 million dollars’ worth of free soundbites is what carried him to the nomination.

Trump clinched a major party nomination based almost strictly on the short attention spans of his audience.  Remember that unsubstantiated National Enquirer blockbuster exclusive about Ted Cruz’s purported five mistresses?  Trick question:  neither do Trump’s supporters.  Trump is dependent on conspiracy theories, internet pontifications and outright trolls to maintain his flight of sensationalism.  With Trump, the explicit strategy is to say the most outrageous thing he can about whoever opposes him and then make them prove the negative.  This is the inevitable result of what happens when a mainstream media once tasked with finding truth is now more interested in finding narratives and clicks.  2008 changed everything — it was the moment when the network media decided they were all in for the magical story of Barack Obama and his promises of hope.  Readers went elsewhere and voters turned to something else when hope never came. Truth no longer mattered.


This was how Trump became the first official social media nominee in history, a viral maven proving that high-profile celebrity and a high profile Twitter account can carry you to the Presidential nomination of a major party on the cheap.  Barack Obama used social media and politics in a similar way:  a great branding team basically told him to go out and say the right thing in the right way and they would do the rest.  But Trump is social media. Barack Obama merely adopted the Twitter.  Trump Bane was born in it, molded by it.

This will change politics more than even our own media can currently imagine in 2020 and 2024.  It won’t matter if Hillary Clinton is a 74-year-old out of touch Miss Daisy wandering around the White House kitchen at 4am and attempting to microwave her Apple hologram texting device.  The team around her will run her brand, advertise for her on Twitter and Facebook, and she will have the power of the White House brand behind her as well.  Any opposing candidate will have to automatically have a social media following to even remotely stand a chance.  The next 16 years of President Kanye and President Clooney are going to be awesome.

And herein lies the problem for Trump:

He now finds himself facing  a general election opponent who has already survived tabloid accusations that she birthed a space alien and that her husband hired the 3-breasted hooker from Total Recall as an intern.  She’s been through all of this before, back in the 1990s.  And I hope you enjoy reruns, because over the course of the next 6 months we are going to relitigate Vince Foster, Chelsea’s “real” father, Bill’s illegitimate black kids, and whether Aliens Back Clinton this time, or are Trump-curious.  Roger Stone, Jr. will be shouting “Webb Hubbell!” from the rooftops and resurrecting stories about Mena, AR cocaine deals, and Trump’s anonymous goon army will dutifully hashtag it and send it out.

The Info-Wartainment and National-Enquirerism has now been legitimized and will be allowed to fester because it will satisfy a part of the Republican base who wants to see Hillary take a beating for her sins.  Trump exploits this with a barrage of cheap threats and call-in appearances where he is not made to account for his breathless declarations.  What if Ted Cruz is Canadian?  I’m just asking questions about Obama’s birth certificate.  Hey man, Rafael Cruz never denied hanging out with Lee Harvey Oswald, it’s just a theory I read man.  His online horde of Scavino-bots then pick these messages up, run with them to get them into the Breitbart bloodstream and voilà:  a narrative is born.  These are the stories Trump is allowed to nurture into existence and drop at a moment’s notice because journalists fail at their duty to hold him accountable for any of it.

This is the lifeblood of Trump’s batshit army of chainmail conspiracy enthusiasts, screaming into the Twitter tubes that they are mad as hell because no one listens to them anymore.

Here’s the thing:  we stopped listening after their fourth forwarded meme from cryingeaglepatriot.tumblr about Frank Marshall Davis being Barack Obama’s real father or the CIA plot to assassinate Bristol Palin.  These are our fathers, mothers, our uncles, our grandparents and our co-workers, and we let them get away with spreading such nonsense into the bloodlines of conservatism because we just didn’t want to deal with the drama of telling them how absolutely insane they were.  We simply added their e-mail address to our spam folder and went about our day.

Well now the drama has found us and it has to be dealt with.

We have no interest in winning you over anymore.  You don’t want serious policy solutions or explanations of why Paul Ryan allowed the Ominbus to pass.  It’s much easier to tune out while Sean Hannity screams “Traitor!” into his microphone.  You don’t want a physics lesson on how, barring the acquisition of a Kryptonian terraforming space machine, Trump’s big beautiful wall will remain a myth.  You want to scream with outrage that lowbrow, quasi-thinkpieces like this one do nothing but “insult the base.”

Well guess what? You’re right.  Because a base that chooses a Cheeto-dusted con-man hellbent on proving every lazy Salon.com cliché the Left has ever spouted about the “Tea Party” is a base that not only deserves to be insulted, but outright ignored and shunned going forward.  No matter how loud and no matter how many in number.

Cliff’s Notes conservative establishment authors and entertainers have decided that anger sells and have made millions off of it.  They’ve spent a goodly amount of time making sure you’re angry and afraid of the Kenyan Obama and scary Mexican hotel workers.  You’re angry listening to them in your car.  You’re angry listening to them in your garage.  You’re angry reading them before bed.  We’re done trying to change it.  We’re simply bidding adieu.  The GOP is yours.  Do what you will with it.  We’re done fighting for the soul of it.  It deserves to die along with most of Trump’s baby-boomer base.

You want your speeches about Big Gulps and the white noise of your AM Radio and you want to be left alone for the remainder of what’s left of the past 30 years of your wasted political lives.  And you’re going to get your wish.

Fox News pocket catheter spokesman and Footloose preacher Mike Huckabee has told us kids to get off his lawn.  In fact most of Fox news in general has made it quite clear through Twitter fights and ghostwritten quickie books that they are not interested in a non-Trump audience.  For all of this raging against the dying of the light by millionaire TV and radio hosts, it’s time to ask a very simple question:  What are you getting out of it?  The “base” is really, really upset that they bleep everything up, and now they are going to do something about it!

There’s another facet to all this that is not only fascinating but downright comically bewildering:  the online alt-Right has fallen into line with the same position as the establishment of Bob Dole, John Boehner, Jan Brewer, Mitch McConnell, Dick Cheney and Newt Gingrich.  Yes, this plucky anon army of anime-bots is apparently totally fine with standing shoulder-to-shoulder with that special brand of God, grits, guns and crazy.  Failed ideologies make for strange bedfellows and they both agree:  conservatives and moderates who will not support Trump are no longer needed.  This a declaration passed down from the lint headed God-Emperor himself.  And that’s fine with us as well.  We’re tired of defending the culturally illiterate Mike Huckabees, the bobble-headed caricature that is now Sarah Palin, the over-the-hill Ann Coulters and the incompetent Reince Priebus.

But know this:  you cannot have it both ways.  If we are told to pack our bags and go, we’ll go, peacefully without argument.  We’ll go our way, you will go yours and that will be that.  But you’re responsible for what happens next.  There will be no MUH ESTABLUSHMUNT to blame this time.  Trump is the candidate Rush Limbaugh has been screaming about for the past 20 years, and he finally got him.  There are other fights in culture and media worth the time and effort.  The 2016 election is no longer one of them.  Madam President.

The GOP brand is now effectively the Trump brand, and the Trump brand is a garbage heap made to look classy and expensive.  Those of you happy to scoop gold-leaf litter to cover the smell of the fanta colored cat turds are welcome to continue doing so; we are under no obligation anymore to explain, intervene, nor mitigate your desperate bullshit.  And we won’t.

With Trump at the head of the party, the GOP has effectively become Trump University, and candidates looking to emulate Trump, Like Paul Nehlan, will begin popping up.  These people are Frank TJ Mackey wannabes, more bent on proving their physical prowess than the soundness of their policies.  A Ponzi scheme of jockhead fanatics all hoping to replicate Trump’s image of success, no different than a Jordan Belfort seminar.  “You too can rise to the top of your primary field like Trump following these 12 easy steps and for just 9 easy payments of $39.99!!!!!”

The Grand Old Party just became the Sell Me This Pen Party.

If all  of this sounds hopeless and lost.  It’s not.  Not in the least.  Being excommunicated out of a party and ideology is not despair.  It’s an opportunity.  It’s where all snakes and charlatans once under the ideological clan of protection can be purged.  In the wilderness, new ideas can be nurtured and new talent can be grown and new allies can be found.  Supporters can be recruited without the culturally leprosied shackles of people like Rick Santorum and his family’s matching outfits hindering us.  Even if the Republican Party survives Trump, it will never escape accounting for him.  The GOP has been demolished.  Long live the counter culture of conservatism.

Let those that demolished it sift through the wreckage, then.  A new pirate ship can and will be built without them and must be maintained without them.  The Democrats spent 12 years sailing those rough seas throughout the Reagan/Bush years.  They regrouped, found their footing with help of an outdated media paradigm, and have remained in the mainstream of culture and politics using that message since.  Whereas it appears that the GOP and its unhinged base would have done better to study how Democrats and cultural liberals made it through those twelve long years without caving to the first snake-oil salesman to come along and hijack their ideas.  They accepted the reality staring back at them from the White House and branched out into culture and academia and after a long 20 year slog, a broken and angry group of Republican voters is their miraculous coup de grâce.  But what they’ve given us is an opportunity to shed an old outdated skin.

Trump isn’t the bold, fresh face of a new movement.  He’s the shriveled, aged mask of a dying one.

He was able to complete such a rapid insurgency because the foundation of the party had become weak.  The RNC became a circus tent propped up by TV and a leadership team who thought Fox News ratings were more important than big data, targeted voting, inner cities & college campuses.  A white nationalist uprising filled the void that the party left open and for that the RNC should be held responsible–if not by us, then by Trump’s shenanigans for the next six months.  Ah, nemesis.


The nomination of Trump is a signal that the RNC, Reince Priebus and primary voters have zero interest in the future of cultural conservatism.  What they want is a celebrity endorphin.  They want their own guy on ESPN & the Ellen Show screaming about how that group of shady Mexicans gathered around the entrance of the Home Depot is the end of the Republic as we know it.  This is how Barack Obama changed the fundamental nature of what the presidency is, and once again Republicans find themselves as cheap imitators.  Voters bought into it.  They never wanted liberty or principled constitutional opposition.  They want their own reality TV king to explain in as little detail as possible how great their country and their whiteness is.  And for that reason alone they should be ridiculed as much as Deray McKesson is for his racial identity politics of loving his blackness and yours.

But ridicule aside, Avenging Conservatives cannot simply depart from the party without messaging and without goals.  The goal should not be a third-party candidacy for the presidency, as some conservative elders recommend.  (Notably, many of them also helped deliver this mess to our front doorsteps in a flaming paper bag).  The only thing a third-party run invites is an opportunity for Trump and his merry horde of Reichbart commenters to blame anyone other than his rank unpopularity and political gameshow ideology for his inevitable November swan-dive at the ballot box.  They will place blame anyway, but why give them a legitimate excuse like splitting a general election vote.

Conservatives who become Social Justice Warriors themselves, on behalf of Trump, are giving into a chintzy fad, one which ultimately only serves the interests of the man running the show.  Worshipping a cult of personality still makes you a cult member, and make no mistake:  no matter how many “TRUMP 2016” chalk-markings you leave on university sidewalks–and admittedly we all enjoy winding up the new squares of the “trigger”-happy generation–realize that you’re shifting exactly zero narratives in media and culture.  Crusading over someone’s missing blue check mark is not moving the Overton window.  There is no virtue to be found in living and dying by the news cycle or viral tweet.  Any casual attendee making a face at a baseball game today can accomplish that.  Social Justice Warriors on both the left and the right thrive on capturing the viral rage of a single moment in time and attempting to hit the home run with it.  #NeverTrump is as pointless as #BringBackOurGirls.

The home run isn’t going to bring us back.  This is what those that push Trump as an online meme do not and will not understand.  “Crooked” Hillary Clinton has successfully clung to power and influence for over 20 years:  she’s not going to be suddenly felled by One Brilliant Tweet or one Instagram video.  Bold promises about a border wall that will never exist may make Trump fans feel better but it takes them no closer to Making America Great Again.  It’s admirable that Twitter has become just another RPG video game, a distraction for some, and it’s good to look at that to a certain extent.  It feels good to pound out the word “CUCK” from the keyboard of your clever /pol/ meme avatar, I’m sure.  But it doesn’t change your miserable shitty life.  No matter how many times you troll the staff of Commentary with frog-Twitter gas chamber memes for the lulz, you are not leveling-up in life.

In the end, in a country of three-hundred million people, choosing two that are hated most amongst the majority suits us perfectly at this moment in time.  Another celebrity-built election on the back of those we loathe.  We don’t follow Kanye West on Twitter because he’s a swell human being.  We don’t watch the Kardashians argue about Caitlyn’s junk because we love and admire them.  And we don’t nominate Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump because we love what they say about tax policy.  We do it because it makes ourselves feel better.  That’s the level of apathy we find ourselves in.  But it can’t last and something has to take its place when we find ourselves at the end of this tunnel of shit.  That’s the lesson to be learned from Trump and those that enabled him.  Conservatives, now battling ideological opponents on both flanks, have to decide what that’s going to be, but if they’re going to do it, it has to be without any of the voices who have embraced, enabled or facilitated this catastrophe and that includes the Republican Party.

This is a once in a lifetime opportunity.  Don’t waste it.

http://thewilderness.me/on-the-bright-side/
« Last Edit: August 10, 2016, 03:08:33 am by Oceander »

Oceander

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That pretty much sums it up.

geronl

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The title is right on.

HonestJohn

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Good article.

Offline guitar4jesus

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Offline Cripplecreek

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True conservatives have a future because we stand on principle.

The alt right progressives have no future because the blow where ever the shifting winds blow them.

Offline don-o

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I saw "pirate ship" in that. Do we all get swords?

Otherwise, that is a fine string of disdain, contempt and some odd form of elitism. I guess some people roll that way.

Otherwise, meh.

Oceander

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I saw "pirate ship" in that. Do we all get swords?

Otherwise, that is a fine string of disdain, contempt and some odd form of elitism. I guess some people roll that way.

Otherwise, meh.

It has plenty more in there, if one bothers to read.  It contains a very concise analysis of the essential flaws in the Trumpkins' support for Trump, and it points out the reality that there is no miracle pill to get rid of Clinton, and that Trump's b.s. isn't going to do that.

There is also an interesting reference to the Overton Window.  That is what needs changing, and doing that requires strategic thinking and the long view; it does not need the short-term irrational boosterism of the Trumpkins.

But then I suppose some people don't care to read carefully.  Meh.

Offline Cripplecreek

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There is also an interesting reference to the Overton Window.  That is what needs changing, and doing that requires strategic thinking and the long view; it does not need the short-term irrational boosterism of the Trumpkins.



I've tried to educate people about the Overton window over the years with little success. There is a  simple interactive explanation about halfway down the page.

http://www.mackinac.org/OvertonWindow

In fact, I see Trump as trying to smash the window from its frame which sounds great for about 10 seconds but won't turn out well. The most extreme and vocal among us will love it but eventually the window will be boarded over and closed for good.


Oceander

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I've tried to educate people about the Overton window over the years with little success. There is a  simple interactive explanation about halfway down the page.

http://www.mackinac.org/OvertonWindow

In fact, I see Trump as trying to smash the window from its frame which sounds great for about 10 seconds but won't turn out well. The most extreme and vocal among us will love it but eventually the window will be boarded over and closed for good.



I think the trouble is that moving the window is more like working with silly putty:  you have to apply constant pressure over a long period of time to move it.  If you try to hit it hard, then it either bounces away or shatters; either way, it doesn't move.

Offline Bigun

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Re: On the Bright Side: Conservatives have a Future. The Trump GOP Does Not.
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2016, 01:29:29 am »
Quote
The GOP brand is now effectively the Trump brand, and the Trump brand is a garbage heap made to look classy and expensive.  Those of you happy to scoop gold-leaf litter to cover the smell of the fanta colored cat turds are welcome to continue doing so; we are under no obligation anymore to explain, intervene, nor mitigate your desperate bullshit.  And we won’t.

With Trump at the head of the party, the GOP has effectively become Trump University, and candidates looking to emulate Trump, Like Paul Nehlan, will begin popping up.  These people are Frank TJ Mackey wannabes, more bent on proving their physical prowess than the soundness of their policies.  A Ponzi scheme of jockhead fanatics all hoping to replicate Trump’s image of success, no different than a Jordan Belfort seminar.  “You too can rise to the top of your primary field like Trump following these 12 easy steps and for just 9 easy payments of $39.99!!!!!”

The Grand Old Party just became the Sell Me This Pen Party.

This part is right on!

The rest I'm ambivalent about except for this:
Quote
The nomination of Trump is a signal that the RNC, Reince Priebus and primary voters have zero interest in the future of cultural conservatism
 
« Last Edit: August 11, 2016, 01:31:59 am by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline GrouchoTex

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Re: On the Bright Side: Conservatives have a Future. The Trump GOP Does Not.
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2016, 03:11:37 am »
That pretty much sums it up.

@Oceander

Thank you
Thank you
And, Thank you, again.
This is one of the best articles I've read since Matt Walsh went off on Trump supporters who hurled insults, and then played victim.

Again, Thank You.

Offline montanajoe

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Re: On the Bright Side: Conservatives have a Future. The Trump GOP Does Not.
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2016, 04:21:55 am »
The title is right on.

I'm not sure, if nothing else this election cycle has shown that there are far more folks calling themselves Conservative who who can be swayed emotionally rather than intelllectualy than I ever imagined....

Offline GrouchoTex

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Re: On the Bright Side: Conservatives have a Future. The Trump GOP Does Not.
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2016, 04:26:23 am »
I'm not sure, if nothing else this election cycle has shown that there are far more folks calling themselves Conservative who who can be swayed emotionally rather than intelllectualy than I ever imagined....

Thought the same all along. Well said.

Offline unknown

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Re: On the Bright Side: Conservatives have a Future. The Trump GOP Does Not.
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2016, 05:21:29 am »

A c'mon Stephen, tell us how you really feel.  :dx1:


I won't be here after the election and vote.

If Hillary wins - I will be busy, BLOAT! (It won't be long before she won't let you buy.)

If Trump wins, I won't be here to GLOAT. (I don't want to hang around while everyone looks at every speck in his eye.)

geronl

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Re: On the Bright Side: Conservatives have a Future. The Trump GOP Does Not.
« Reply #15 on: August 11, 2016, 06:23:35 am »
I saw "pirate ship" in that. Do we all get swords?

Otherwise, that is a fine string of disdain, contempt and some odd form of elitism. I guess some people roll that way.

It's called real anti-establishment

Online Smokin Joe

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Re: On the Bright Side: Conservatives have a Future. The Trump GOP Does Not.
« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2016, 10:22:36 am »
I'm not sure, if nothing else this election cycle has shown that there are far more folks calling themselves Conservative who who can be swayed emotionally rather than intelllectualy than I ever imagined....
Wow. Are there ever...

I have noted the whole pep-rally atmosphere around candidates before, and figured after the more thoughtful voters had selected a candidate that might be handy. This time around, it started early, but even worse, the same emotional focus (based on lies, even) was used from the beginning to manipulate voters, and the use of unsubstantiated and malicious rumor via social media was phenomenal. Furthermore, witnessing assemblages of people I had previously considered to be mainly rational thinkers fall prey to this tactic or even embrace it was an eye-opener, indeed.

Most evident was the sudden willingness to dispense with finding out the facts, or even the obvious facts on display to cling to a preconceived emotional stance, against all rationality, and ignore those facts repeatedly (and even attack the source) in order to do so.

The explanation of the Overton window is interesting, and I can see how the same concept applies to what a broadcaster is willing to say, even former leaders like Rush or Hannity or writers like Coulter.
The opinions they pen or put on the air are limited by what they think will keep, permit, or entice new viewers/readers and old to continue listening, within a specific acceptable range of ideas. While there may be a few hidden gems, there are facts which will not be broadcast or written because they do not want to offend the 'conventional (emotional) wisdom' of their perceived audience and lose ratings or sales which are their life's blood.
Because of this, they will not be effective against the sort of emotionalistic groundswell the major candidates each enjoy this year, and will not be the harbingers of Liberty many have fancied them to be.

Instead, their broadcasts will reflect what they think their primary audiences want to hear, not necessarily reality. They have sold their credibility in the future for popularity today, and while some of that may be self-fulfilling, that which is not will not bring them enmity in the end as any blame will be shifted to the usual suspects, and the game will continue.

For this reason, I prefer primary data, from the source, rather than someone telling me what someone else said. I am ever suspicious that that sort of hearsay will be tainted by the inherent biases or agendae of the writer or commentator who is 'interpreting' the words of someone else. While insight and background information are welcome and can shed light on what someone says, I want to see/hear their words, in context before I decide.
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Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

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Oceander

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Re: On the Bright Side: Conservatives have a Future. The Trump GOP Does Not.
« Reply #17 on: August 11, 2016, 10:34:54 am »
Wow. Are there ever...

I have noted the whole pep-rally atmosphere around candidates before, and figured after the more thoughtful voters had selected a candidate that might be handy. This time around, it started early, but even worse, the same emotional focus (based on lies, even) was used from the beginning to manipulate voters, and the use of unsubstantiated and malicious rumor via social media was phenomenal. Furthermore, witnessing assemblages of people I had previously considered to be mainly rational thinkers fall prey to this tactic or even embrace it was an eye-opener, indeed.

Most evident was the sudden willingness to dispense with finding out the facts, or even the obvious facts on display to cling to a preconceived emotional stance, against all rationality, and ignore those facts repeatedly (and even attack the source) in order to do so.

The explanation of the Overton window is interesting, and I can see how the same concept applies to what a broadcaster is willing to say, even former leaders like Rush or Hannity or writers like Coulter.
The opinions they pen or put on the air are limited by what they think will keep, permit, or entice new viewers/readers and old to continue listening, within a specific acceptable range of ideas. While there may be a few hidden gems, there are facts which will not be broadcast or written because they do not want to offend the 'conventional (emotional) wisdom' of their perceived audience and lose ratings or sales which are their life's blood.
Because of this, they will not be effective against the sort of emotionalistic groundswell the major candidates each enjoy this year, and will not be the harbingers of Liberty many have fancied them to be.

Instead, their broadcasts will reflect what they think their primary audiences want to hear, not necessarily reality. They have sold their credibility in the future for popularity today, and while some of that may be self-fulfilling, that which is not will not bring them enmity in the end as any blame will be shifted to the usual suspects, and the game will continue.

For this reason, I prefer primary data, from the source, rather than someone telling me what someone else said. I am ever suspicious that that sort of hearsay will be tainted by the inherent biases or agendae of the writer or commentator who is 'interpreting' the words of someone else. While insight and background information are welcome and can shed light on what someone says, I want to see/hear their words, in context before I decide.


I'm not sure if "manipulated" is the correct word to use to describe the GOP primary voters who gave us Trump.  Manipulation connotes deceit and secrecy on the part of the manipulator and innocence on the part of the manipulated.  Those aspects were not the primary attributes of the Trump cult of personality:  his attempts to play to blind emotionalism and fear and his self-contradiction, were obvious and blatant, and the willingness of the GOP primary voters were clearly complicit with that and displayed not just that they were vulnerable to manipulation, but that they courted and abetted this manipulation.  It was, and is, a degree of co-dependency that exists in cults.

Online Smokin Joe

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Re: On the Bright Side: Conservatives have a Future. The Trump GOP Does Not.
« Reply #18 on: August 11, 2016, 11:31:56 am »
I'm not sure if "manipulated" is the correct word to use to describe the GOP primary voters who gave us Trump.  Manipulation connotes deceit and secrecy on the part of the manipulator and innocence on the part of the manipulated.  Those aspects were not the primary attributes of the Trump cult of personality:  his attempts to play to blind emotionalism and fear and his self-contradiction, were obvious and blatant, and the willingness of the GOP primary voters were clearly complicit with that and displayed not just that they were vulnerable to manipulation, but that they courted and abetted this manipulation.  It was, and is, a degree of co-dependency that exists in cults.
Considering the number of people who claimed at one time to have supported the person most lied about in the campaign, "manipulated" is entirely appropriate. Deceit was used, not just the garden variety of lying, but "Cruz stole Carson votes by saying Carson was Dropping out" (Cruz people tweeted CNN comments which were misleading), "Lyin' Ted", saying Cruz supported anti-Trump rioters in the streets, saying Cruz blamed Trump for the rioters in the streets, Blaming Cruz for Liz Mair's PAC ad, and lying about it to justify further attacks on Heidi Cruz, NE story about Five mistresses, The whole kefuffle over his Father's claimed religious beliefs, lies about 'stealing delegates', the NE story about how his dad allegedly helped/knew/assisted Lee Harvey Oswald, etc.etc.etc. in a well timed and relentless campaign of lies, deception, and willful misstatements designed to emotionally manipulate voters, whether they supported Trump already or not.  Many who claimed to have supported Cruz claimed that some incident on the list (or something else I failed to mention) was 'the last straw' and that they couldn't support Cruz any more and shifted to Trump. Some of that, to be sure was simple trolling the internet, but even after the nomination, the 'you're voting for Hillary if you don't vote for Trump' and other such lies continue in a desperate attempt to guilt people into voting for Trump (more emotional manipulation, with supporters, media, and even Trump involved).

Yes, among the supporters there are definite cult like characteristics, even to the degree that the alternative is considered apocalyptic, that 'only' Trump can save the country, and worshipful images and statements which take on an almost religious connotation, to the point where sexual attractions are claimed.

I have never seen such before, except in the hatred the Democrats ginned up for Nixon and George W Bush, but even that did not approach this level.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline guitar4jesus

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Re: On the Bright Side: Conservatives have a Future. The Trump GOP Does Not.
« Reply #19 on: August 11, 2016, 11:55:27 am »
I prefer primary data, from the source, rather than someone telling me what someone else said. I am ever suspicious that that sort of hearsay will be tainted by the inherent biases or agendae of the writer or commentator who is 'interpreting' the words of someone else. While insight and background information are welcome and can shed light on what someone says, I want to see/hear their words, in context before I decide.

Me too.

Quote from: Smokin Joe
Yes, among the supporters there are definite cult like characteristics, even to the degree that the alternative is considered apocalyptic, that 'only' Trump can save the country, and worshipful images and statements which take on an almost religious connotation, to the point where sexual attractions are claimed.

Hyperbolic fear mongering about Hillary has been their chief weapon against reason and debate.  They shut down all debate because, HILLARY WILL DESTROY THE COUNTRY!  Likewise, Trump's use of ultimatum in campaigning is very disturbing.  You have to vote for me because.... Supreme Court, 2nd Amendment, Religious Freedom, ad nauseam...

This whole charade of a campaign is being driven by emotion and, win or lose, its outcome won't be pretty.

Offline TomSea

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Re: On the Bright Side: Conservatives have a Future. The Trump GOP Does Not.
« Reply #20 on: August 11, 2016, 12:14:01 pm »
1964:

"On the Bright Side: Moderates have a Future. The Goldwater GOP Does Not."

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Re: On the Bright Side: Conservatives have a Future. The Trump GOP Does Not.
« Reply #21 on: August 11, 2016, 09:25:26 pm »
I'm not sure if "manipulated" is the correct word to use to describe the GOP primary voters who gave us Trump.  Manipulation connotes deceit and secrecy on the part of the manipulator and innocence on the part of the manipulated.  Those aspects were not the primary attributes of the Trump cult of personality:  his attempts to play to blind emotionalism and fear and his self-contradiction, were obvious and blatant, and the willingness of the GOP primary voters were clearly complicit with that and displayed not just that they were vulnerable to manipulation, but that they courted and abetted this manipulation.  It was, and is, a degree of co-dependency that exists in cults.

goopo