Author Topic: Christie Gushes Over Illegal Immigrants: “You Are An Inspiration”…  (Read 2710 times)

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Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Christie Gushes Over Illegal Immigrants: “You Are An Inspiration”…
« Reply #25 on: January 08, 2014, 07:20:34 pm »
"Close the border" is a lot like:

Prohibition

War on Drugs

......justification for huge government money, efforts and powers, to combat human nature and freedom.

With decades of minimal "interior enforcement" the immigrants, employers, teachers, law enforcement know it is all just "business as usual."

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Offline MBB1984

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Re: Christie Gushes Over Illegal Immigrants: “You Are An Inspiration”…
« Reply #26 on: January 08, 2014, 08:47:17 pm »
Securing the Border is a necessity if you desire to preserve America's culture, economy and ultimately its existence.  Imagine that some force was flooding an indigenous people's lands with millions of unassimilable foreigners, and it was understood that this influx would irretrievably change that land's culture and replace the population.  What would anthropologists call this phenomenon?  Cultural genocide comes to mind.

However, in America, it is called "immigration policy" and is even embraced by many "self described" Conservatives on this board.  Regarding the "cost," at the current time the average illegal immigrant household receives $14,387 in benefits more than they pay in taxes and this is before Obamacare.   

We can secure the border if we truly choose to do so.  That doesn't mean that there will be no illegal aliens, but that their numbers will be dramatically reduced.  We do not completely enforce laws against drunk driving, rape, or murder either.

Offline Relic

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Re: Christie Gushes Over Illegal Immigrants: “You Are An Inspiration”…
« Reply #27 on: January 08, 2014, 08:53:40 pm »
Securing the Border is a necessity if you desire to preserve America's culture, economy and ultimately its existence.  Imagine that some force was flooding an indigenous people's lands with millions of unassimilable foreigners, and it was understood that this influx would irretrievably change that land's culture and replace the population.  What would anthropologists call this phenomenon?  Cultural genocide comes to mind.

However, in America, it is called "immigration policy" and is even embraced by many "self described" Conservatives on this board.  Regarding the "cost," at the current time the average illegal immigrant household receives $14,387 in benefits more than they pay in taxes and this is before Obamacare.   

We can secure the border if we truly choose to do so.  That doesn't mean that there will be no illegal aliens, but that their numbers will be dramatically reduced.  We do not completely enforce laws against drunk driving, rape, or murder either.

You don't understand. The best way to handle the situation is to say it's impossible to implement a perfect solution and do nothing.

I do the same thing all the time. In fact, Monday night, when it was -15F, (thank you global warming), my wife noticed that the seal around the doors was imperfect. The strike plate for the latch had frost on the inside of the house. That did it. If I couldn't have a perfect seal and I was losing heat anyway, why try. I opened all the doors and windows.

I think I'm ready for CONgress.

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Re: Christie Gushes Over Illegal Immigrants: “You Are An Inspiration”…
« Reply #28 on: January 08, 2014, 09:15:48 pm »
Securing the Border is a necessity if you desire to preserve America's culture, economy and ultimately its existence.  Imagine that some force was flooding an indigenous people's lands with millions of unassimilable foreigners, and it was understood that this influx would irretrievably change that land's culture and replace the population.  What would anthropologists call this phenomenon?  Cultural genocide comes to mind.

The First Nations want a word with you.  :tongue2:
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Offline Rapunzel

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Re: Christie Gushes Over Illegal Immigrants: “You Are An Inspiration”…
« Reply #29 on: January 08, 2014, 09:20:05 pm »
I'm curious, just exactly how does one "close the border?"  I keep hearing that phrase over and over again, but I've never heard anyone actually explain in real terms how that would be accomplished and, more to the point, what the cost would be.

Very easy and I think you know it.  You close the border by stopping all the carrots that make them want to come here illegally. You don't pay welfare to illegal immigrants while taking money away from our fighting men and women in the military.  Why do you think they started avoiding Arizona and heading to California or New Mexico or even Texas.  Arizona VOTERS passed a series of very tough laws that made it very difficult for people to come into this state illegally and get freebies from the taxpayers in this state... so the solution is simple.. it isn't sending the people already here back and being "meanies" it is just cutting off the freebies spigot and making it clear like just about every other country on this planet of ours - you want to come here you come legally and you come in with something to offer to our society in the way of an education or money in your pocket or both so you are not a financial drag on this society.
�The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.� G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline Relic

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Re: Christie Gushes Over Illegal Immigrants: “You Are An Inspiration”…
« Reply #30 on: January 08, 2014, 09:25:53 pm »
Very easy and I think you know it.  You close the border by stopping all the carrots that make them want to come here illegally. You don't pay welfare to illegal immigrants while taking money away from our fighting men and women in the military.  Why do you think they started avoiding Arizona and heading to California or New Mexico or even Texas.  Arizona VOTERS passed a series of very tough laws that made it very difficult for people to come into this state illegally and get freebies from the taxpayers in this state... so the solution is simple.. it isn't sending the people already here back and being "meanies" it is just cutting off the freebies spigot and making it clear like just about every other country on this planet of ours - you want to come here you come legally and you come in with something to offer to our society in the way of an education or money in your pocket or both so you are not a financial drag on this society.

:thumbsup:

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Re: Christie Gushes Over Illegal Immigrants: “You Are An Inspiration”…
« Reply #31 on: January 08, 2014, 09:26:46 pm »
I'm talking style not substance here.

If you want to go back to substance in a format other than attack style, I can do that. There are two issues at hand, Christie's presidential prospects and immigration. You seem to be focused on immigration.


That's because it's what the title of the thread contains....illegal immigrants.

Quote

As for Christie, I find him lacking. I dislike his bullying, and extreme self interest. Christie may be better than a Democrat, but it's not a clear superiority. As was said up thread, and I agree, Christie is likely to jettison anything for self interest. Which means with enough media pressure, Christie could be coerced into governing like a liberal Democrat. If Christie is the nominee, I'll have a very, very difficult time deciding what to do.


If Christie is the nominee....it's a no brainer between him and the Communists.  Period.

Quote

As for immigration, that's a very confusing one. We have laws, and the laws are sufficient, if they were only enforced. Your view seems to be more emotion rather than calculation. Don't get me wrong, emotion should be part of the calculus, but it shouldn't be the sole determinant. We have millions of people who were lured here to provide cheap labor. Unfortunately, along with the hard workers came the criminals. I'm suspicious of amnesty because the last amnesty was such a sham. If I had my say, we would close the border first. Make it so Mexicans have to go through the same process as Indians, or Vietnamese, or Italians, or anyone else to enter the country. Put in place a real, verifiable work visa program. Those that have made a life here, give them the option to become American, or go home. Those that are criminal in their behavior, deport them. If they are to be deported, they can take their family, or leave them here, doesn't matter, but we don't need more criminals. That's how I would do it.



And like I said....my perspective up close is different than most here.

I regularly used contractors who employed illegals.  Compared to the black or white employees, they showed up everyday and worked their a$$es off.

One had a son who was an all-star for their school in football, soccer and baseball.  He had been brought here when he was 3 years old.

Are YOU going to be the one to tell him, "tough crap"....leave, when it's the only home he's known?

Pragmatism seems to be a lost art around here.
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Re: Christie Gushes Over Illegal Immigrants: “You Are An Inspiration”…
« Reply #32 on: January 08, 2014, 09:36:51 pm »
Quote
If Christie is the nominee....it's a no brainer between him and the Communists.  Period.
Then we should nominate someone a heck of a lot better than Christie.
Period.
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Offline Relic

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Re: Christie Gushes Over Illegal Immigrants: “You Are An Inspiration”…
« Reply #33 on: January 08, 2014, 09:37:09 pm »
That's because it's what the title of the thread contains....illegal immigrants.

I wasn't scolding you for your focus, I was simply noticing. I am not against fluid conversation. You know, if you go by words in the title, most threads could be hijacked. I'm just saying...

If Christie is the nominee....it's a no brainer between him and the Communists.  Period.

No, it's not. It's your opinion, and you're allowed to have it, but you know what they say about opinions.

And like I said....my perspective up close is different than most here.

I regularly used contractors who employed illegals.  Compared to the black or white employees, they showed up everyday and worked their a$$es off.

One had a son who was an all-star for their school in football, soccer and baseball.  He had been brought here when he was 3 years old.

Are YOU going to be the one to tell him, "tough crap"....leave, when it's the only home he's known?

Pragmatism seems to be a lost art around here.


You know what is really a lost art? Reading and comprehension. From my post that you quoted:

"Those that have made a life here, give them the option to become American, or go home. "

Is that your idea of telling someone "tough crap"? Look, I get it, you know some Mexicans, and you admire them. Your "up close and personal" gets tiresome. It's as if you're not too subtly trying to exert some sort of moral superiority because of your associations.

Mexicans are people. They are lured here, I said that, I get it. But, before you fix the leak, you have to turn off the water supply.

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: Christie Gushes Over Illegal Immigrants: “You Are An Inspiration”…
« Reply #34 on: January 08, 2014, 09:43:08 pm »
Then we should nominate someone a heck of a lot better than Christie.
Period.

For the past 25 years we have nominated moderates and only one has won the WH.  I think it is high time the GOP voters give a actual conservative a try and see what happens. 

Christie has more baggage than anyone I can think of running in recent history.  If he wins it will be a huge disaster for the party and the country.  The rest of the country is not New Jersey. In addition the very moment he would secure his nomination - which I have zero doubt was behind his dissing of Romney - the news media will bring all the baggage front and center.  The interesting thing is just today on the MSN News Feed is a headline story about Christie being in the middle of the bridge scandal after he had denied having anything to do with it.  The guy is at best a progressive Republican and not really a Republican at all.
�The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.� G Washington July 2, 1776

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Re: Christie Gushes Over Illegal Immigrants: “You Are An Inspiration”…
« Reply #35 on: January 08, 2014, 09:48:17 pm »
For the past 25 years we have nominated moderates and only one has won the WH.  I think it is high time the GOP voters give a actual conservative a try and see what happens. 



Yeah.....nominate a Romney and over 5 million adolescent Republican voters decide to stay home.

But according to you....nominate a pure Conservative...(whatever the hell that means) and they'll win....even though Conservatives have been portrayed as extremists by the mainstream media and seemingly agreed upon by the populace.

The only way a 'pure' Conservative can be nominated and elected, is after the American People have suffered greatly.


....we're getting there.

Quote

Christie has more baggage than anyone I can think of running in recent history.  If he wins it will be a huge disaster for the party and the country.  The rest of the country is not New Jersey. In addition the very moment he would secure his nomination - which I have zero doubt was behind his dissing of Romney - the news media will bring all the baggage front and center.  The interesting thing is just today on the MSN News Feed is a headline story about Christie being in the middle of the bridge scandal after he had denied having anything to do with it.  The guy is at best a progressive Republican and not really a Republican at all.


LOL!  How can you say it will be a huge disaster for the country when we have a f**king Marxist in the WH and another one waiting in the wings whose thesis was titled, "There's only the Fight!".....about her hero Saul Alinsky?
« Last Edit: January 08, 2014, 09:50:08 pm by DCPatriot »
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Offline Rapunzel

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Re: Christie Gushes Over Illegal Immigrants: “You Are An Inspiration”…
« Reply #36 on: January 08, 2014, 09:49:47 pm »


Mexicans are people. They are lured here, I said that, I get it. But, before you fix the leak, you have to turn off the water supply.

Exactly.  I have no problem with Mexican's. My gardener is Mexican and I have personally gotten him three other jobs because he is good and he is reliable - he also is here LEGALLY.  My best friend is Mexican and she and her husband are very successful business owners of two businesses - one in California and one in Florida.   Her family came here legally and they are all citizens.  I think her parents are wonderful people - her dad is the type of gentleman we only wish most older gentlemen in this country were - he goes out of his way to open the car door for his wife, his daughter and me.  And.. they ALL (the entire family) get angry when you talk about amnesty.  They make no bones about how they came here legally, learned English, got an education and became citizens.  Most Mexicans who did all this are no more enamored of those who jumped the border than their gringo friends.
�The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.� G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: Christie Gushes Over Illegal Immigrants: “You Are An Inspiration”…
« Reply #37 on: January 08, 2014, 09:51:32 pm »

Yeah.....nominate a Romney and over 5 million adolescent Republican voters decide to stay home.

But according to you....nominate a pure Conservative...(whatever the hell that means) and they'll win....even though Conservatives have been portrayed as extremists by the mainstream media and seemingly agreed upon by the populace.

The only way a 'pure' Conservative can be nominated and elected, is after the American People have suffered greatly.


....we're getting there.


LOL!  How can you say it will be a huge disaster for the country when we have a f**king Marxist in the WH and another one waiting in the wings whose thesis was titled, "There's only the Fight!".....about her hero Saul Alinsky?

I voted for Romney... even though her had Romneycare and didn't disavow it. I voted for McCain - who would be not a heck of a lot different than Obama.  I will not vote for Christie - you can take that to the bank....
�The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.� G Washington July 2, 1776

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Re: Christie Gushes Over Illegal Immigrants: “You Are An Inspiration”…
« Reply #38 on: January 08, 2014, 09:56:49 pm »
I voted for Romney... even though her had Romneycare and didn't disavow it. I voted for McCain - who would be not a heck of a lot different than Obama.  I will not vote for Christie - you can take that to the bank....

Until there is an equally powerful 3rd party....I will vote for whomever the GOP nominee is.

My love of the country I was born into is what's important to me and my children and grandchildren.....not my personal ego.
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Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Christie Gushes Over Illegal Immigrants: “You Are An Inspiration”…
« Reply #39 on: January 08, 2014, 09:57:56 pm »
The deal with kids though, is they had no part in whatever "crime" was involved with them winding up years later, stranded in America.

When I moved (back to) California in 1955 I found myself in a classroom, with several Hispanic students.

I'm still involved with a few, and to this day I have no idea if they were born here, or in Mexico. If born in Mexico, I have no idea if their parents came "legally."

I would support a "dream act" for young people. 
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Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Christie Gushes Over Illegal Immigrants: “You Are An Inspiration”…
« Reply #40 on: January 08, 2014, 10:06:48 pm »
Until there is an equally powerful 3rd party....I will vote for whomever the GOP nominee is.

My love of the country I was born into is what's important to me and my children and grandchildren.....not my personal ego.
I will vote for the Republican nominee, absent a viable electable 3rd party, which I don't expect.

Fickle online "conservatives" eventually turn on most of their own. Rubio, Ryan come to mind, but there have been many more.

It is so, so easy to be anonymous and online. You can say and claim so much, including a lot of unrealistic stuff.

 
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

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Re: Christie Gushes Over Illegal Immigrants: “You Are An Inspiration”…
« Reply #41 on: January 08, 2014, 10:11:59 pm »
I will vote for the Republican nominee, absent a viable electable 3rd party, which I don't expect.

Fickle online "conservatives" eventually turn on most of their own. Rubio, Ryan come to mind, but there have been many more.

It is so, so easy to be anonymous and online. You can say and claim so much, including a lot of unrealistic stuff.

 

Amen, T_S!   :beer:
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

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Re: Christie Gushes Over Illegal Immigrants: “You Are An Inspiration”…
« Reply #42 on: January 08, 2014, 10:32:40 pm »
I will vote for the Republican nominee, absent a viable electable 3rd party, which I don't expect.

Fickle online "conservatives" eventually turn on most of their own. Rubio, Ryan come to mind, but there have been many more.

It is so, so easy to be anonymous and online. You can say and claim so much, including a lot of unrealistic stuff.

 

So far I've managed to hold my nose hard enough to vote the R ticket.  At the least, as a matter of principle I will never, ever vote for a D, even if s/he is the only candidate running.  All I can say is that I hope my "love" doesn't go completely unrequited.

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Re: Christie Gushes Over Illegal Immigrants: “You Are An Inspiration”…
« Reply #43 on: January 08, 2014, 10:38:59 pm »
[[ How else to respond to a fellow Conservative who thinks it's wiser to sit on your a$$ and stay home rather than cast a vote against the greater evil among us?
That worked really well in 2012 didn't it? ]]

I voted for Dole, I voted for McCain, I voted for Romney.
I'm tired of voting for losers. (And I'm talking about more than just being numerical "losers" in the ballot counting.)

When I became a Republican, it was because I realized that, at the time, the Republicans better represented my beliefs, values, and interests.

That was then.
This is now.

What's happened to the Republicans that once represented the interests of the Euro-middle class of conservative persuasion? They seem to be a disappearin' breed.

I will no longer be voting for presidential candidates that [to me] appear no more inclined to represent and defend my interests as do the democrats, or for go-along-get-along Congressional candidates that start drinking the Vichy water as soon as they lower their arms after taking their oaths of office.

The "greater evil" among us are the Republicans who claim they're going to represent us, and then promptly "cut deals" and collaborate with the rats -- deals that are nothing more than sellouts and surrenders.

At least we know what the 'rats think of us and what they intend for us.

So... call me any name you wish, you have my permission to use your highest and most sophisticated insults. Because if it's Chris Christie in 2016, I'm going to be doing exactly what you predict, and sit on my a$$ come election day, be it Hillary or high water.

If the Republicans want me to vote Republican, give me a Republican to vote for.

Mr. Christie ain't him!

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Re: Christie Gushes Over Illegal Immigrants: “You Are An Inspiration”…
« Reply #44 on: January 09, 2014, 02:47:16 am »
This is completely off-topic, but Oceander asks:
[[ I'm curious, just exactly how does one "close the border?"  I keep hearing that phrase over and over again, but I've never heard anyone actually explain in real terms how that would be accomplished and, more to the point, what the cost would be. ]]

Here's a post I put up in the old AOL "Issues" forum, way back on September 27, 1994:
===================
Sealing the Southern Border...

The following postings were recently observed in this topic (and another on immigration):
>> It is impossible to stop people from coming across our borders.
(I include the Canadian, although I know not every one does).  It is a boondoggle along the lines of our wars on drug importation.  It can't be done.  Waste of money.
- and -
>> The Border Patrol can't stop immigrants.  We can't stop drugs after spending hundreds of billions.  How much will we waste trying to stop immigrants before we admit it doesn't work???
Poster: "Chyln"

  Wrong, Mr. Chyln. ABSOLUTELY wrong.
  I suggest you, and anyone else who thinks it can't be done, to pick up a copy of The New York Times dated September 14, 1994, and read the front page article, "A Rare Success at the Border Brought Scant Official Praise".
  The article details the story of Silvestre Reyes, chief of the Border Patrol office in El Paso, and how he completely sealed off the Mexico-US border against illegal immigration in the El Paso area.
  Once the second-busiest border crossing, with around 6,000+ crossings per day, in September 1993 Reyes surmised that it was useless and wasteful to try to catch illegal immigrants *after they already had crossed the border*. Instead, he positioned his officers right ON the border, to prevent them from crossing in the first place.
  The name of the operation was "Operation Blockade", and it worked more sucessfully than anyone had hoped for. It is still working, one year later (the name of the operation has been changed to "Hold the Line", largely to placate complaints from Mexico re the notion of a "blockade" against its citizens, which of course it is). Yet Mr. Reyes' success was viewed with suspicion and downright hostility by senior officials of the INS in Washington. Here was a border patrol supervisor who actually believed in doing the job. One might surmise that the opposition Mr. Reyes' tactics were met with indicates that senior officials of the INS are not all that interested in "doing their job" - that is, assuring that only "legal" immigrants enter the United States from the southern border.
  Before Mr. Reyes arrived in El Paso, the Times reports that the immigration situation there was "out of control":

  "Thousands of illegal aliens were streaming across the Rio Grande without constraint. Border Patrol officers were chasing them through the streets, backyards and parking lots. Often the officers grabbed El Paso residents by mistake and demaded proof that they were citizens."
  "There had been brawls and shootings, accusations of abuse, and loud public protests. The city had risen up in outrage, and a Federal judge had ordered the patrol to stop questioning people based solely on their appearance."

  Prior to September 19, 1993, 10,000 or more Mexicans waded the Rio Grande each Sunday to be ready to appear for work the next morning. But on that Sunday, they found border patrol agents standing 100 yards apart for the entire length of the border. None could get through.
  Reports the Times:

  "... within a few days the residents of El Paso began to see other effects. The police reported that the number of auto thefts and petty crimes had fallen. Merchants reported that shoplifting had dropped off. And everyone noted that city streets were largely free of beggars and windshield washers."
  "'By the end of the week,' said Al Giugni, district director for the I.N.S. in El Paso, 'it had grown bigger than life itself. Radio and television and newspaper people were talking about nothing else. And they did polls.' Though unscientific, the results were consistent; all of the polls showed public approval of 80 percent to 95 percent."

  But Mr. Reyes' superiors in Washington were less than pleased with his innovative solution. He was told that his operation was exacerbating tensions with Mexico precisely at the time the Clinton administration was trying to get NAFTA through Congress. At one point, Reyes threatenened to call a news conference to name the official in Washington who might order him to cease Operation Blockade.
Washington backed down, and the blockade continues to this day.
  In and around El Paso, no one gets across illegally, thanks to Mr. Reyes.

  Indeed, we should apply Mr. Reyes' tactics to the ENTIRE Southern front. But more importantly, rather than a human barrier, we should consider constructing a physical barrier that cannot be breached. An immense construction project indeed, but one that is within the bounds of our technology and enterprise. Of course, there would be numerous checkpoints through which people could pass through legally in either direction.
  I'm reminded of an old gospel song. It goes:

          My heaven is so high, you can't get over it
          So low, you can't get under it
          So wide, you can't get around it
          You gotta come in at the door

  Since an enormous proportion of ALL those south of our border seem to regard America as "heaven" to which they hope to escape, we must regulate the onslaught trying to break into our nation. This doesn't mean they'll never be able to get in - but if they do, they'll literally have "to come in at the door" - LEGALLY.
===================

That was what I wrote, almost twenty years ago.
Twenty years ago, it might have worked.
But too much water over the dam now -- and too many illegals over the border.

It's nobody's fault but our own...

Online Fishrrman

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Re: Christie Gushes Over Illegal Immigrants: “You Are An Inspiration”…
« Reply #45 on: January 09, 2014, 02:51:46 am »
[[ Fickle online "conservatives" eventually turn on most of their own. Rubio, Ryan come to mind, but there have been many more. ]]

Rubio and Ryan aren't conservatives...

And there have been "many more" -- just like them!
« Last Edit: January 09, 2014, 02:54:41 am by Fishrrman »

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: Christie Gushes Over Illegal Immigrants: “You Are An Inspiration”…
« Reply #46 on: January 09, 2014, 03:17:19 am »
[[ Fickle online "conservatives" eventually turn on most of their own. Rubio, Ryan come to mind, but there have been many more. ]]

Rubio and Ryan aren't conservatives...

And there have been "many more" -- just like them!

Only in the eyes of a faux conservative is Ryan a conservative.  A study of his voting record tells the story... and this budget he spawned with Patty Murray seals the deal... anyone who would fund welfare for illegals and cut our soldiers and injured vets is no one I want anything to do with.  Lucky my congressman is one of the few who read the bill and voted against it.
�The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.� G Washington July 2, 1776