Student, 14, 'used tree branch to rape teacher in school bathroom before murdering her and leaving a note saying "I hate you all" next to her body'

[Cincinnatus]

Either way the statement(s) are ridiculous.

[Liberal_Spy]

Either way the statement(s) are ridiculous.

How are they ridiculous? All I asked for was clarification on what he said. If all safety nets were removed lots of people would be homeless and/or starving.

[xfreeper]

How are they ridiculous? All I asked for was clarification on what he said. If all safety nets were removed lots of people would be homeless and/or starving.

They are ridiculous because they are so off topic from the origibnal post

[aligncare]

People would starve/die from treatable illness (more often than they already do)/end up homeless if we gutted all the safety nets, which is what he seemed to imply was the better option. That's why I asked for clarification.

The safety net concept has been abused by politicians who have over promised for decades for the purpose of reelection. So the safety net has become the hammock. ie. Obama phones, etc ...

We all agree with "safety nets." What we disagree with are "hammocks" for all.

[Liberal_Spy]

We all agree with "safety nets." What we disagree with are "hammocks" for all.

That's not what Truth_Seeker said. He criticized social safety nets as a whole and implied that survival of the fittest is a preferable alternative. He even clarified and made that point clearer than he did originally. It's not the first time I've heard the argument that those that can't make it on their own should be allowed to perish. I just wanted to confirm that that was Truth_Seeker's belief. I personally think it shows an extreme lack of empathy, but I respect it as an alternative position nonetheless. Anyway, I asked and he clarified, so if anybody else wants to discuss it further I'd prefer a PM; I don't want to drive this any more off topic.

[DCPatriot]

And once more we see a thread evolve into another bullshit argument with the "house liberal".     

[mountaineer]

And once more we see a thread evolve into another bullshit argument with the "house liberal".     

Yep.

[musiclady]

And once more we see a thread evolve into another bullshit argument with the "house liberal".     

Proving once again that his purpose here is to divide and disrupt, not to contribute to rational conversation, nor to learn.

You can no more be a little bit liberal than you can be a little bit pregnant........

[truth_seeker]

So that's a yes? Let those that can't make it without the government die out until we have a stronger and more responsible society?

Those made weak by safety nets, would be stronger without them. So they won't "die out" but rather will be better contributors to both their own, and others' well being. And society would be stronger.

To have worthwhile labors for the less well mentally gifted, we need to quit sending jobs overseas. And we need to quit allowing illegal immigrants to enter, and deprive our citizens of worthwhile paying labor.

Oh, and the notion everybody needs a college education, when they aren't smart enough to complete it is a waste of education resources. And it dupes people to take on unnecessary debt. And it misleads them into thinking they won't need a useful skill.

Reinstitute the draft or a voluntary method, for worthwhile public service. People learn skills and discipline in the military.

Drastically reduce pay levels for professors in the social sciences, for most produce nothing of value to society. Why force taxpayers and students to pay a university PhD $150000 per year for a few hours work weekly, to insult and ridicule citizens?

Education costs can be drastically reduced by using online methods. Let hiring entities confirm the technical competence with their own testing. If I got a degree from a state school, but know nothing, nobody will hire me because they can test to confirm I know nothing.

I'll submit most college grads today know the same or less than high school grads from two-three generations ago.

You are bitter about the amount of debt you willingly piled on. You should be bitter you got nothing useful out of it, unless you think handing out welfare is useful.

[Rapunzel]

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime

[musiclady]

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime

Conservative policies are now, and always have been better for the poor.

All one has to do is look at what's happened to lower income Americans since the so-called "Great Society".......the crowing achievement of leftist malfeasance.

There is more poverty now than ever before, and less hope for those in poverty to get out of it.

Leftists either are stupid in thinking that their policies have been successful, or they are willfully doing harm to those in need for the sake of their own power.

There is NO WAY a leftist cares about others.

None.

[truth_seeker]

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime

But what if he refuses to learn? Or refuses to fish? Or simply cannot learn?

The safety net is being used for all three, when it should only apply to the last.

[Liberal_Spy]

Those made weak by safety nets, would be stronger without them. So they won't "die out" but rather will be better contributors to both their own, and others' well being. And society would be stronger.

To have worthwhile labors for the less well mentally gifted, we need to quit sending jobs overseas. And we need to quit allowing illegal immigrants to enter, and deprive our citizens of worthwhile paying labor.

Oh, and the notion everybody needs a college education, when they aren't smart enough to complete it is a waste of education resources. And it dupes people to take on unnecessary debt. And it misleads them into thinking they won't need a useful skill.

Reinstitute the draft or a voluntary method, for worthwhile public service. People learn skills and discipline in the military.

Drastically reduce pay levels for professors in the social sciences, for most produce nothing of value to society. Why force taxpayers and students to pay a university PhD $150000 per year for a few hours work weekly, to insult and ridicule citizens?

Education costs can be drastically reduced by using online methods. Let hiring entities confirm the technical competence with their own testing. If I got a degree from a state school, but know nothing, nobody will hire me because they can test to confirm I know nothing.

I'll submit most college grads today know the same or less than high school grads from two-three generations ago.

You are bitter about the amount of debt you willingly piled on. You should be bitter you got nothing useful out of it, unless you think handing out welfare is useful.

An interesting point of view.   ^-^

[Rapunzel]

But what if he refuses to learn? Or refuses to fish? Or simply cannot learn?

The safety net is being used for all three, when it should only apply to the last.

I agree.  But the difference goes back to how we are raising kids these days - it is why no matter how rich parent are I think they do their kids a HUGE disservice by just "giving" them everything rather than making them earn the things they want... my parents had money but when we were not in Texas for six weeks each summer I had to work to earn money for my school clothes, my parents bought the necessities for me, but if there was more than that I had to earn it myself... I grew up learning that nothing was handed to me for nothing.   I watched my sister buy her kids absolutely everything because she resented how we were raised.. I cannot say she did the kids any favors in doing so.

[Cincinnatus]

All one has to do is look at what's happened to lower income Americans since the so-called "Great Society".......the crowing achievement of leftist malfeasance.

About that. Anomalism should be able to easily prove that prior to LBJ, even before FDR, with their era of Great Liberal Compassion and "safety nets" (using other people's money, of course) that millions of Americans [were] starving to death and dying of treatable illness.

That should be easily demonstrable. So prove it, Anomalism.

[musiclady]

I agree.  But the difference goes back to how we are raising kids these days - it is why no matter how rich parent are I think they do their kids a HUGE disservice by just "giving" them everything rather than making them earn the things they want... my parents had money but when we were not in Texas for six weeks each summer I had to work to earn money for my school clothes, my parents bought the necessities for me, but if there was more than that I had to earn it myself... I grew up learning that nothing was handed to me for nothing.   I watched my sister buy her kids absolutely everything because she resented how we were raised.. I cannot say she did the kids any favors in doing so.

Even if you  buy kids' things, you can teach them a solid work ethic (in how they do their jobs around the house, how they do school work, how they approach part time jobs, and other responsibilities.

The problem with today's left is that they refuse to help kids become adults because they don't make them accept responsibility for anything.

Look at our schools, sports teams, etc.  They are ALL helping kids become worthless human beings.

Leftists want people to be useless, rich or poor.  But they treat poor kids even worse.

I HATE what the left has done to the younger generations.  I just pray that some day we can get through to them and help them understand what being an adult, and what having character really means.

[musiclady]

All one has to do is look at what's happened to lower income Americans since the so-called "Great Society".......the crowing achievement of leftist malfeasance.

About that. Anomalism should be able to easily prove that prior to LBJ, even before FDR, with their era of Great Liberal Compassion and "safety nets" (using other people's money, of course) that millions of Americans [were] starving to death and dying of treatable illness.

That should be easily demonstrable. So prove it, Anomalism.

He's a leftist.

He doesn't have to demonstrate, or prove anything.

He just regurgitates his talking points and expects people to believe he's telling the truth.

It's so easy to be a leftist, isn't it??   

[Liberal_Spy]

About that. Anomalism should be able to easily prove that prior to LBJ, even before FDR, with their era of Great Liberal Compassion and "safety nets" (using other people's money, of course) that millions of Americans [were] starving to death and dying of treatable illness.

That should be easily demonstrable. So prove it, Anomalism.

Compare income equality now to income equality 40-50 years ago. Minimum wage used to be a reasonable amount of money to live on; that is no longer true. Many people have to work 2 and even 3 jobs to make ends meet. There would be no need for all the safety nets if the average Joe could afford to live without them.

[happyg]

Compare income equality now to income equality 40-50 years ago. Minimum wage used to be a reasonable amount of money to live on; that is no longer true. Many people have to work 2 and even 3 jobs to make ends meet. There would be no need for all the safety nets if the average Joe could afford to live without them.

It was all the government programs that pushed wages down.

[Rapunzel]

Even if you  buy kids' things, you can teach them a solid work ethic (in how they do their jobs around the house, how they do school work, how they approach part time jobs, and other responsibilities.

The problem with today's left is that they refuse to help kids become adults because they don't make them accept responsibility for anything.

Look at our schools, sports teams, etc.  They are ALL helping kids become worthless human beings.

Leftists want people to be useless, rich or poor.  But they treat poor kids even worse.

I HATE what the left has done to the younger generations.  I just pray that some day we can get through to them and help them understand what being an adult, and what having character really means.

I agree. Forgot to mention one of my earliest "chores" was doing the ironing. When I was older my parents let our housekeeper go and every Saturday I had to clean the house - with the exception of my sisters rooms.  My middle sister had to start dinner every night and I had to do the dishes.  When I finally got my drivers license I had to do the grocery shopping - I could use the car to go shopping, but was not allowed to take the car to school - had to take the school bus and even in my senior year I had to walk until I bought my own car from my part time jobs.    My parents were VERY strict if we did not bring home straight A's we went on restriction until the next report card. 

[Liberal_Spy]

It was all the government programs that pushed wages down.

Would you mind elaborating on your point? Which programs are you talking about, and how/why did they push down wages?

[Rapunzel]

Compare income equality now to income equality 40-50 years ago. Minimum wage used to be a reasonable amount of money to live on; that is no longer true. Many people have to work 2 and even 3 jobs to make ends meet. There would be no need for all the safety nets if the average Joe could afford to live without them.

Minimum wage was NEVER designed to be a living wage to support a family and there was a time no one aspired to have a minimum wage job... if people don't want to live on a minimum wage then get an education - doesn't have to be college - the best paying jobs these days come from going to a trade school and YES you can get student loans for trade schools and have a six figure job waiting when you graduate.  Anyone wanting to get ahead in life can get ahead in life, it is called hard work...  life is not a free ride - though it seems too many people think it is.

[musiclady]

It was all the government programs that pushed wages down.

Again, as a leftist, he doesn't have to come up with anything that actually helps.

Minimum wage has done so much harm to the poor........especially young people.......that it's not funny.

But as long as they keep screeching that we need to raise the minimum wage, they fool themselves into believing that they care.

It's all a sick game.

[musiclady]

I agree. Forgot to mention one of my earliest "chores" was doing the ironing. When I was older my parents let our housekeeper go and every Saturday I had to clean the house - with the exception of my sisters rooms.  My middle sister had to start dinner every night and I had to do the dishes.  When I finally got my drivers license I had to do the grocery shopping - I could use the car to go shopping, but was not allowed to take the car to school - had to take the school bus and even in my senior year I had to walk until I bought my own car from my part time jobs.    My parents were VERY strict if we did not bring home straight A's we went on restriction until the next report card.

The things you describe........hard work, responsibility, character......... are anathema to the left.

Just give people things and you can pretend you care.

It's much easier than looking for and working for solutions that actually get the job done.

Conservative principles help people in need.

Liberal 'principles' increase their need.

[Rapunzel]

Again, as a leftist, he doesn't have to come up with anything that actually helps.

Minimum wage has done so much harm to the poor........especially young people.......that it's not funny.

But as long as they keep screeching that we need to raise the minimum wage, they fool themselves into believing that they care.

It's all a sick game.

What is really funny about this is they think they are sooooo smart and yet they fail to realize all pushing for a higher min wage does is cause higher cost of product, more automation and more unemployment and even fewer min wage jobs available....