Boy with toy gun shot and killed by Calif. deputies

[sinkspur]

If you're going to trust law enforcement to enable these devices, forget it. 

That's why it's always a good thing for bystanders to fire up their Android phone video cameras when cops come on the scene. 

Last week, a cop in Dallas shot a mentally ill man who was holding a knife but never raised his hands in a threatening manner.  The cop who shot the man said, in an affidavit, "The suspect advanced with arms raised in a threatening manner."  Luckily, a neighbor videoed the encounter and the cop will likely be fired and brought up on charges.

The Dallas cop was, indeed, fired, and the department will seek an indictment of him.  THIS WOULD NEVER HAVE HAPPENED but for the video of a concerned citizen.

When a cop shows up, make sure to activate your video camera in your phone.  If he has a problem with that, make sure to video his problematic attitude.

The only way to stop these rogues is to provide incontrovertible evidence.

[Carling]

Funny how some will try, convict, and execute a police officer despite not having a clue what happened.

Stop being melodramatic.

The only one executed in this instance was the boy who was carrying the toy gun, and who literally posed no threat to the cops.  You're protecting the police to the point of taking their word at face value.
 
 I take an honest citizen's word over a cops 99% of the time, and since this kid had no priors and had never been in trouble, I'll blame it on the cops.  You go ahead and take the cops word, and how the kids was pointing his toy gun at the cops.

[sinkspur]

Funny how some will try, convict, and execute a police officer despite not having a clue what happened.

A kid here in Texas brought a pellet gun to school, but it looked exactly like a 9mm S&W.  When he was confronted by two officers, they ordered him to put it down numerous times, but when he pointed it at them, they fired first and killed him.  It was ruled a justified shooting by the department and grand jury.  Nearly every witness backed the officers because to everyone, it appeared the gun was real.

No surprise.  They couldn't determine the gun was a pellet gun?  Just looking at the barrel and exit hole is a dead giveaway. 

Trigger-happy cops are an epidemic.  I have two nephews who are cops, both with more than 10 years of service.  They're astounded at the almost automatic response of young officers to not only draw their weapons but to use them.

[Atomic Cow]

So you accuse me of doing the same very thing you've been doing all thread.  Typical.

You accuse the cops of executing the kid and automatically assume they are guilty without any facts whatsoever.  Perhaps you should wait and see what happened, but I don't think your clear hated of police officers will allow that.

[sinkspur]

So you accuse me of doing the same very thing you've been doing all thread.  Typical.

You accuse the cops of executing the kid and automatically assume they are guilty without any facts whatsoever.  Perhaps you should wait and see what happened, but I don't think your clear hated of police officers will allow that.

There's no chance that anything but the officers' version will prevail.  Cops always get the benefit of the doubt, and there's no one to contradict their story.

Did it strike you as unusual that a kid would be walking down a road with a loaded AK-47?  Can some high-school educated dweeb even think that that would be unusual, that a criminal with a gun would be carrying it, loaded, and willing to use it, on a public road?  I suspect not.

"He has a gun, he won't put it down, so I'll put him down."  That's cop think.

[truth_seeker]

Carling, in AZ 12 year old shot and killed a teacher. Today a 14 year old did the same in MA. Cops are probably more aware of these killings than most. Children can kill. They know it and must protect themselves. And if you think these police officers took pleasure or are indifferent to what has happened you are living in a very unpleasant fantasy world.

I listen to both sides of these things, but often it seems the cops are too hasty to resolve a matter which doesn't need to leave anybody dead.

In my town multiple police officers shot a teenage girl, on a school playground. The girl have a small knife.

In a town nearby, multiple police officers beat a mentally ill man to death.

[Fishrrman]

[[ The main directive in today's police departments is to make sure the cops themselves are protected. ]]

Shoot first.

Ask questions later.

After all, we're the cops.

We have THE RIGHT to do that.

If we make a mistake, well... sorry.

[sinkspur]

I listen to both sides of these things, but often it seems the cops are too hasty to resolve a matter which doesn't need to leave anybody dead.

In my town multiple police officers shot a teenage girl, on a school playground. The girl have a small knife.

In a town nearby, multiple police officers beat a mentally ill man to death.

Today's police forces are paramilitaried-up with massive SWAT teams and armored vehicles, called out against neighborhood marijuana farmers and mentally-ill citizens who get a little too loud on their front porches.

Hide the dogs if a cop shows up at your door.  Seriously.  Barking dogs spook cops worse than the sound of semi-automatic gunfire.

[Oceander]

Eff the cops until I get more details.  Why did they shoot him?  Obviously the kid couldn't have fired any shots at them.

I agree.

[Oceander]

I listen to both sides of these things, but often it seems the cops are too hasty to resolve a matter which doesn't need to leave anybody dead.

In my town multiple police officers shot a teenage girl, on a school playground. The girl have a small knife.

In a town nearby, multiple police officers beat a mentally ill man to death.

Absolutely.  It may very well be true that cops know all of these stories, but the fact of the matter is this:  they willingly chose to be cops, and that profession brings with it the obligation - the duty - to be level-headed in crisis situations and to use your brains always, and never your emotions, including your fears.  From what's been presented, these cops didn't think the situation through, they acted on their hyped-up fears.

[DCPatriot]

Actually I was wondering if the boy perhaps did not speak English and understand what the police we telling him to do.

Geesh.l...it's about time somebody suggested this, Rap.

That's exactly what probably happened.

That said, what kind of a cop can shoot a 13 year old boy that is not in the act of committing a crime?

[sinkspur]

Geesh.l...it's about time somebody suggested this, Rap.

That's exactly what probably happened.

That said, what kind of a cop can shoot a 13 year old boy that is not in the act of committing a crime?

Hispanic kids who go to school know English.   So this is not even possible.

[Carling]

Geesh.l...it's about time somebody suggested this, Rap.

That's exactly what probably happened.

That said, what kind of a cop can shoot a 13 year old boy that is not in the act of committing a crime?

If you read the article, you know that the boy speaks English, and was in the band at his middle school.

[xfreeper]

Anyone who is dumb enough to point a weapon, real or fake, at a police officer, is likely going to get shot.

What makes you so sure he did any such thing?

Yesterday just after the incident, the story was this:

They yelled at the teen to put the weapon down. He had his back to them and began turning around toward the officers, the statement said.
 
"One of the deputies described that as the subject was turning toward him the barrel of the assault rifle was rising up and turning in his direction. The deputy feared for his safety, the safety of his partner, and the safety of the community members in the area," the statement said.

[xfreeper]

And this:

"The deputy then fired several rounds from his service weapon at the subject," said Lt. Paul Henry, "striking him at least one time.  The subject immediately fell to the ground."

But one neighbor said he saw something different.

Ethan Oliver says he lives across the street and came outside after he heard two gun shots.

He says by that time Lopez was already on the ground.

"Then the cops went at it again and unloaded like 6 to 7 shots,” said Oliver.

When asked if he meant that the deputy shot Lopez while he was on the ground, Oliver said, "Yeah. Exactly what I saw."

Authorities haven't responded to that statement.

This thing smells so bad it's enough to make someone puck.

[Cincinnatus]

Because there seem to be several posters on here who know what happened in this incident, I have, in the interest of public safety and full disclosure, done some research relative to Santa Rosa. So for you know it alls here are the people and organizations you contact in order to provide your assistance and evidence.

The Santa Rosa Police Department, in conjunction with the Sonoma County District Attorney’s Office and Petaluma Police Department continue to investigate this incident. Anyone with information about this incident is requested to contact the Santa Rosa Police Department at (707) 543-3590.

"Anyone with information". Quite a few on here it seems.

The Sonoma County District Attorney (also listed as a responsible party)

Jill R. Ravitch, District Attorney
Contact:Jill R. Ravitch, District AttorneyAddress:Sonoma County District Attorney’s Office
600 Administration Drive, Room 212 J
Santa Rosa, CA 95403

If needed, to avoid a cover up:

Local FBI Field Office
FBI San Francisco
 450 Golden Gate Avenue, 13th. Floor
 San Francisco, California 94102-9523
sanfrancisco.fbi.gov
 (415) 553-7400

In addition, the Santa Rosa Police Dept has issued a press release on the shooting, which we all know is mostly nothing more than a tissue of lies; still:

After interviewing the involved deputies, the witnesses identified to this point, and examining the crime scene, the following information can be released.

The deputies were riding together in the same patrol car. They were driving a marked Sonoma County Sheriff’s Office patrol vehicle and they were dressed in their standard patrol uniforms. While driving in the area of Moorland Avenue and West Robles Avenue they observed a subject walking northbound on the west side of Moorland Avenue just north of the intersection with West Robles Avenue. The subject was wearing a blue “hoodie” style sweatshirt and shorts.

One of the deputies immediately recognized that the subject was carrying what appeared to be an assault style rifle, similar to an AK-47 assault rifle. The weapon was in the subject’s left hand and his hand was at his left side. The deputies immediately called for emergency assistance from other deputies in the area and they broadcast their location. The deputies continued northbound through the intersection and pulled into the southbound lane and stopped their vehicle. One of the witnesses described that he saw the patrol car’s overhead rotating lights come on and he heard a “chirp” of the vehicle’s siren.

Both deputies exited their vehicle, but maintained cover behind their open passenger door. One of the deputies shouted at the subject to, “put the gun down.” A witness in the area reported that he heard the deputy shout two times to “put the gun down.” Initially, the subject’s back was toward the deputies. When the deputy shouted at the subject, the subject began to turn toward the deputies. One of the deputies described that as the subject was turning toward him the barrel of the assault rifle was rising up and turning in his direction.

The deputy feared for his safety, the safety of his partner, and the safety of the community members in the area. He believed the subject was going to shoot at him or his partner. The deputy described that he is aware an assault weapon of this type is capable of firing a bullet that can penetrate his body armor, the metal exterior of his car, and the walls of the residential houses behind him. The deputy then fired several rounds from his service weapon at the subject, striking him at least one time. The subject immediately fell to the ground.

The deputies approached the subject, handcuffed him, and immediately began life-saving measures. They called for an emergency medical response and both Fire and EMS were on scene within minutes.

Andy Lopez Cruz, age 13, died at the scene. An autopsy is scheduled for Thursday, October 24, 2013.

Recovered at the scene were a replica AK-47 assault style rifle, and a replica of a handgun. The rifle was located on the ground next to the subject. The handgun was located concealed in the waistband of the subject. The rifle had a brown stock and fore grip, and a dark colored plastic body. It did not have the traditionally orange tip of a replica firearm. The handgun was clear plastic and did have an orange tip at the end of the barrel.

So I am calling upon our experts, Sinkspur and Carling especially, to contact the appropriate authorities and tell them what really happened since you seem to know. Don't let this heinous deed go unpunished.

Oh, and do let us know the reception you receive from the investigating bodies.

[Carling]

So I am calling upon our experts, Sinkspur and Carling especially, to contact the appropriate authorities and tell them what really happened since you seem to know. Don't let this heinous deed go unpunished.

Oh, and do let us know the reception you receive from the investigating bodies.

The press release does nothing at all to clear things up.  It almost implicates the officer, IMO.  Fearing for his safety is no reason to start blasting away at a child, and any police officer worth his salt knows this.  I read the press release as the Santa Rosa police basically throwing the cop under the bus.  No need to follow up with your ridiculous requests, because lawyers in Santa Rosa already are.

[Carling]

Santa Rose PD missed this in their press release, I suppose.   

Ismael Mondragon saw the boy carrying the rifle and warned him to put it away. He saw the events unfold in his rearview mirror.

"He pull over to the kid just walking and opened the door and shoot him, three shots," Mondragon said. "I did not hear anything like [a warning]. I am 50 feet away but I am stopping as I am watching."

The deputies who shot the boy are on leave. Santa Rosa police, Petaluma police and the district attorney's office are investigating the shooting.

Trigger happy county PD who gets off on killing people?

This is the third fatal shooting by Sonoma County sheriff's deputies this year. The deputies are on administrative leave.

[Cincinnatus]

Carling, thank you for your continuing commentary on the situation in Santa Rosa/Sonoma County, but don't you think you would better serve the cause of humanity and the truth if you were simply to do this?:

So I am calling upon our experts, Sinkspur and Carling especially, to contact the appropriate authorities and tell them what really happened since you seem to know.

[Carling]

Carling, thank you for your continuing commentary on the situation in Santa Rosa/Sonoma County, but don't you think you would better serve the cause of humanity and the truth if you were simply to do this?:

So I am calling upon our experts, Sinkspur and Carling especially, to contact the appropriate authorities and tell them what really happened since you seem to know.

Don't you think you'd be better served to call up the numbers you gave and tell them exactly what happened, instead of berating (and libeling by pulling out the race card) posters on this site who can see the slaughter of a child for what it is?

Speaking of racism, I've read enough of your comments on Mexican immigration over the years to bias my opinion toward what I think is your real reason for protecting the white officers.

[Cincinnatus]

Oh, golly, Carling outs me: Speaking of racism, I've read enough of your comments on Mexican immigration over the years to bias my opinion toward what I think is your real reason for protecting the white officers.

Now all I need for him to do is prove that accusation.

By all means do so, Carling. Post any and all comments I have ever made about Mexican immigration "over the years" (despite the fact I have been on this Forum for less than a year). I'm begging you to do so.

Funny thing is, I think you are blowing smoke about my supposed "comments" just as you are when it comes to the situation in Santa Rosa. I have made few or no comments on "Mexican immigration" and you don't know jack about what happened in Santa Rosa.

Prove me wrong.

[xfreeper]

Because there seem to be several posters on here who know what happened in this incident, I have, in the interest of public safety and full disclosure, done some research relative to Santa Rosa. So for you know it alls here are the people and organizations you contact in order to provide your assistance and evidence.

"Anyone with information". Quite a few on here it seems.

The Sonoma County District Attorney (also listed as a responsible party)

If needed, to avoid a cover up:


In addition, the Santa Rosa Police Dept has issued a press release on the shooting, which we all know is mostly nothing more than a tissue of lies; still:

So I am calling upon our experts, Sinkspur and Carling especially, to contact the appropriate authorities and tell them what really happened since you seem to know. Don't let this heinous deed go unpunished.

Oh, and do let us know the reception you receive from the investigating bodies.

Ah yes. A nice neat, tidy story with all the loose ends closed up. Of course what else could one expect given a day to get it all cleaned up. Almost causes one to overlook the fact a 13 year old with a toy gun was shot dead. The cops should be commended for their stealthy tactics. The kid never even got off a shot thus totally avoiding the threat to the cops, their vehicle and the surrounding neighborhood from the plastic rounds the menace in a hoodie was packing.

[mystery-ak]

This is a warning that this thread is slowly spiraling out of control....

[DCPatriot]

This is a warning that this thread is slowly spiraling out of control....

What else is new?     (the spiraling....not the warning)

[mystery-ak]

What else is new?     (the spiraling....not the warning)