Doctors, hospitals demanding patients pay entire deductible up front thanks to Obamacare

[Rapunzel]

What do you mean by free healthcare? Are you talking about the people that eventually give in and stumble into an ER to get emergency treatment for a condition that could have been handled way before it got that bad, and for a fraction of the cost? That's not actually free healthcare.

No, I am speaking about MEDICAID (or ACCESS here in AZ or Medi-Cal in California, etc.) this means these people do not even have a premium or a deductible.. some who do have some means to pay have what is called a SHARE OF COST......  and this also applies to the elderly who are poor - they are called MEDI-MEDI which means what Medicare does not cover Medicaid covers - and that includes their Medicare premium. 

The  majority of the people who have been abusing emergency rooms has been the illegal population which has bankrupted hospital after hospital along the border from California to Texas... AND the other people who have been the big offenders with ERs are HMO patients who when unable to get into their HMO immediately head to the ER knowing the ER can't make them wait for treatment and they can bill the HMO and hope to get reimbursed at some point.

[mystery-ak]

What do you mean by free healthcare? Are you talking about the people that eventually give in and stumble into an ER to get emergency treatment for a condition that could have been handled way before it got that bad, and for a fraction of the cost? That's not actually free healthcare.

That's not true...since my hubby retired from the Army he has a pt job at our local hospital..a guard in the ER

I can tell you a lot of stories.

One thing he talks about all the time is how people come in for every minor ailment wanting treatment and having no means to pay..the ones who are on Medicade refuse to pay their cost share which is $3.25......everyone is treated and no one is turned away...

[Liberal_Spy]

The taxes thing? Tell me this. Why should I pay 60% because I happened to have a good idea or good luck or spent years honing a rare skill? You are penalizing me for not taking a data entry job and sticking with it until I keel over? How, exactly, is that fair?

If you make millions of dollars a year I feel that the amount it would hinder your lifestyle is negligible. I feel it is a small price to pay for somebody that benefited so much from the system that allows them to be so comfortable. I feel as human beings we have an obligation to help those that are trying but also struggle a lot.

[Rapunzel]

If you make millions of dollars a year I feel that the amount it would hinder your lifestyle is negligible. I feel it is a small price to pay for somebody that benefited so much from the system that allows them to be so comfortable. I feel as human beings we have an obligation to help those that are trying but also struggle a lot.

Yeah right, so Joe Blow can sit home on the couch and watch Jerry Springer while this "rich" guy is out working his butt off.  No thank you. 

[R4 TrumPence]

If you make millions of dollars a year I feel that the amount it would hinder your lifestyle is negligible. I feel it is a small price to pay for somebody that benefited so much from the system that allows them to be so comfortable. I feel as human beings we have an obligation to help those that are trying but also struggle a lot.

That is what churches and charities used to do until the govt took over. People were better off when the churches did it!

If I work and make a million dollars, which is not much btw by today's standards, and jane has 20 kids cause she likes to live off the govt and never worked a day in her life... You think I should give her something? Are you really that messed up?

[Liberal_Spy]

Yeah right, so Joe Blow can sit home on the couch and watch Jerry Springer while this "rich" guy is out working his butt off.  No thank you.

I think Joe Blow should be thrown out on his ass and forced to get a job. Some people will always cheat the system; you can't avoid that.

[Right_in_Virginia]

If you make millions of dollars a year I feel that the amount it would hinder your lifestyle is negligible. I feel it is a small price to pay for somebody that benefited so much from the system that allows them to be so comfortable. I feel as human beings we have an obligation to help those that are trying but also struggle a lot. 

I agree (except for that "benefited so much from the system" because successful people by and large work their arses off and create jobs for others).  But I agree as human beings we have a moral obligation to help others.  That's why we have unemployment insurance, food stamps, welfare benefits and the Medicaid program, to name a few programs.

Please tell me how Obamacare does anything other than hurt the backbone of this nation and its economy...that most esteemed "middle class"... a group who by and large are/were happy with their insurance plan: BOTH its premium and coverage?

[Liberal_Spy]

That is what churches and charities used to do until the govt took over. People were better off when the churches did it!

If I work and make a million dollars, which is not much btw by today's standards, and jane has 20 kids cause she likes to live off the govt and never worked a day in her life... You think I should give her something? Are you really that messed up?

No, but I think some of the taxes from said millions should go towards helping people that are legitimately trying but still can't make ends meet. Not everybody that is poor is just a lazy POS that wants to live off of the government. In fact, most of them are not.

[Liberal_Spy]

I agree (except for that "benefited so much from the system" because successful people by and large work their arses off and create jobs for others).  But I agree as human beings we have a moral obligation to help others.  That's why we have unemployment insurance, food stamps, welfare benefits and the Medicaid program, to name a few programs.

Please tell me how Obamacare does anything other than hurt the backbone of this nation and its economy...that most esteemed "middle class"... a group who by and large are/were happy with their insurance plan: BOTH its premium and coverage?

I said in an earlier post that I don't support Obamacare. I don't really care how it is done, but I feel poor working people that can't afford insurance (yes, they exist, and there are a lot of them) should have some sort of option other than going to the ER.

[happyg]

I said in an earlier post that I don't support Obamacare. I don't really care how it is done, but I feel poor working people that can't afford insurance (yes, they exist, and there are a lot of them) should have some sort of option other than going to the ER.

I heard on the radio that many of the working poor had their insurance increased. Obamacare might force them to give up, and go on full welfare.

[Rapunzel]

Lib should watch some of the Judge Judy video's.......


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMjRiZzo1_8


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxCa2UITiIk


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p39MK2oAF8E


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxxcoWPr7ls

 

[R4 TrumPence]

If you make millions of dollars a year I feel that the amount it would hinder your lifestyle is negligible. I feel it is a small price to pay for somebody that benefited so much from the system that allows them to be so comfortable. I feel as human beings we have an obligation to help those that are trying but also struggle a lot.

That is what charitable donations are for. I give to the charities that I want to give to, not the ones the govt thinks I should! Not withstanding their raping me of my taxes as it is

[Liberal_Spy]

That is what charitable donations are for. I give to the charities that I want to give to, not the ones the govt thinks I should! Not withstanding their raping me of my taxes as it is

Do you think charitable donations are/could be enough to cover the need for help? I don't.

[Rapunzel]

I said in an earlier post that I don't support Obamacare. I don't really care how it is done, but I feel poor working people that can't afford insurance (yes, they exist, and there are a lot of them) should have some sort of option other than going to the ER.

What we tell you really does go in one ear and out the other... do they teach comprehension in college these days.

[Liberal_Spy]

What we tell you really does go in one ear and out the other... do they teach comprehension in college these days.

A lot of poor people are not eligible for a lot of the "free healthcare" you were talking about earlier.

[rb224315]

I support expansion where it helps people and I support shrinking government where it doesn't.

Herein lies the problem with liberalism.  People can and should decide what helps them and what hurts them and make decisions accordingly, not government.  When government decides to usurp power outside of its authority for the purported purpose of helping one person over another, it is by default hurting the second person.  In private interactions, exchanges are made without force or the threat of it, and everybody comes out even because all parties must have agreed to the transaction.  Another person has not stolen from me if I agree to a bad deal.  Government has stolen from me if it takes my resources and gives them to someone who hasn't earned them.  The core role of government is to protect individuals' rights.  Having food is not a right.  Having health care is not a right.  Having housing is not a right.  Why?  Because one person does not have a right to another person's property or skills.  We do have the right to seek the aforementioned things without committing acts of force or fraud.  We don't have the right to demand them from others without their agreement.

If you make millions of dollars a year I feel that the amount it would hinder your lifestyle is negligible. I feel it is a small price to pay for somebody that benefited so much from the system that allows them to be so comfortable. I feel as human beings we have an obligation to help those that are trying but also struggle a lot.

Dennis Prager says this all the time (paraphrasing):  Conservatives think, liberals feel.

I agree that we have an human obligation to help others.  We also have a human obligation to not infringe upon other humans' right to their own property.  We do not have the right to use the police power of government to take money from individuals and use it for charity.

Have you read or listened to "The Law" yet?

[Rapunzel]

A lot of poor people are not eligible for a lot of the "free healthcare" you were talking about earlier.

Baloney.  As a matter of fact, under Bush they raised AFDC for a family of four into the $80K range.  That is not even poor unless you live in DC or NYC.

[Right_in_Virginia]

I said in an earlier post that I don't support Obamacare. I don't really care how it is done, but I feel poor working people that can't afford insurance (yes, they exist, and there are a lot of them) should have some sort of option other than going to the ER.

LS... please read a previous post of mine.  There already IS a program that covers the unemployed and the working poor.  It's called Medicaid.  Yes, they have to enroll in the program, and no, right now illegal immigrants are not eligible to participate.  But poor Americans are eligible and are covered for medical provided through a very extensive medical network.

Obamacare, IMHO, is not about helping the poor and the uninsured.  We as a nation have a very successful and very adequate program already in place to help this folks.  As I said, I know people insured through this program, and they go to GP's, specialists, hospitals,  and receive their prescription medications.

Please "get" that Obamacare has nothing to do with the uninsured or the poor. So, please let go of that argument.

Look at the program.  Look at its cost.  Look at its effects on the middle class and convince me that Obamacare does not hurt them more than it helps the "poor" beyond the benefits already available to them.

[EC]

If you make millions of dollars a year I feel that the amount it would hinder your lifestyle is negligible. I feel it is a small price to pay for somebody that benefited so much from the system that allows them to be so comfortable. I feel as human beings we have an obligation to help those that are trying but also struggle a lot.

It is a small price. For you.

I got annoyed enough to look up last years end of year figures.

Gross income for the business - £373,474
Net income to me - £98.578, after wages, business taxes and graft.
Tax - £6500 for the NHS. £21,376 in personal tax.
Supposed amount for us to live on: £70,702.
Remove the kid's trust fund - to pay for her education - £64,702

Hey - I made £20 per hour, at 60 hours per week! Not counting the extra 30 hours a week doing writing jobs to make up the wages in the quiet times. My staff - 4 people and rock solid - have not taken a raise in 4 years. They are hurting hard, even with using the cash and carry discount card to pick up cheap (good) food. I'll not let them go unless they want to - but that also takes skin off me. You think I am not going to slip a hundred or so into the pay packet for a kid's birthday or an anniversary?

I am sitting pretty here. Only have mortgages on 3 (small) homes, since my kids are under employed and depreciation to worry about. Gives us about 1000 a month to live on.

Now you know why I run the frugal recipes thread.

Pay attention to it all, not just the number.

[Liberal_Spy]

Having food is not a right.  Having health care is not a right.  Having housing is not a right.  Why?  Because one person does not have a right to another person's property or skills.  We do have the right to seek the aforementioned things without committing acts of force or fraud.  We don't have the right to demand them from others without their agreement.

That's fine, but what do you propose? Should we just let all of the poor people starve and die out from untreated medical conditions? I could be wrong, but it sounds to me that you more or less believe that it isn't your problem, so you shouldn't have to care about it or deal with it.

[Liberal_Spy]

It is a small price. For you.

I got annoyed enough to look up last years end of year figures.

Gross income for the business - £373,474
Net income to me - £98.578, after wages, business taxes and graft.
Tax - £6500 for the NHS. £21,376 in personal tax.
Supposed amount for us to live on: £70,702.
Remove the kid's trust fund - to pay for her education - £64,702

Hey - I made £20 per hour, at 60 hours per week! Not counting the extra 30 hours a week doing writing jobs to make up the wages in the quiet times. My staff - 4 people and rock solid - have not taken a raise in 4 years. They are hurting hard, even with using the cash and carry discount card to pick up cheap (good) food. I'll not let them go unless they want to - but that also takes skin off me. You think I am not going to slip a hundred or so into the pay packet for a kid's birthday or an anniversary?

I am sitting pretty here. Only have mortgages on 3 (small) homes, since my kids are under employed and depreciation to worry about. Gives us about 1000 a month to live on.

Now you know why I run the frugal recipes thread.

Pay attention to it all, not just the number.

I think taxes and regulations on your small business should go down.

[Rapunzel]

That's fine, but what do you propose? Should we just let all of the poor people starve and die out from untreated medical conditions? I could be wrong, but it sounds to be that you more or less believe that it isn't your problem, so you shouldn't have to care about it or deal with it.

Good grief you are dense.

[Liberal_Spy]

Good grief you are dense.

Well I guess I wouldn't be a liberal if you didn't think I was dense, huh?

[R4 TrumPence]

Good grief you are dense.

I think the word you are looking for is contrary!   

[EC]

That's fine, but what do you propose? Should we just let all of the poor people starve and die out from untreated medical conditions? I could be wrong, but it sounds to me that you more or less believe that it isn't your problem, so you shouldn't have to care about it or deal with it.

Sticking with the actual business for a second - We have a washer dryer. It is for upholstery and rarely gets used - possibly twice a week. We also have a shower. It is a legal requirement when working with dangerous chemicals, and some of the stuff we use will eat your skin off in under a minute, then keep going.

If they are not in use, the local homeless use them and know they can. Usually a few sandwiches in the office and a pot of soup on the go too. Of course, the funniest time was when our foreman got caustic all over her. She charged into the shower, stripping off en route, to find a homeless guy already in there. He asked if she was a bonus. Came out with the most impressive set of black eyes I have seen, ever.