Author Topic: Tom Coburn to MSNBC: ‘I’m No Longer a Conservative’ According to Ted Cruz  (Read 18632 times)

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Offline sinkspur

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There you go really. That is it. It is all about the game, not the principle. Playing and using the same tactics over and over and over, expecting different results.

Our tactics haven't been working for decades. The last time we had winning tactics where we made a major advancement was 95-96 when we forced Clinton into the balanced budget though...shock.... a government shutdown.

Since then we changed and have been playing the compromise tactic over and over, expecting different results.


When we (and I mean we in the citizens position too) stand on principle and don't compromise on key issues, we win. When we don't, we cede ground. A good example, which is one of those few shining moments in the past couple of decades was the defeat of the McCain/Kennedy Amnesty bill.

McCain and the RINOs were playing the game, saying Amnesty was a given. We stood on principle and made our voice heard and the bill was killed. We were fighting both sides on this and the people won.

Then we lost our voice for a while. 

The thing about Cruz's battle is it isn't about Cruz really, it is about the people standing up with him. He isn't tilting at windmills, he is sounding a horn and the people are rising up. Don't believe me, check out the thousands upon thousands of comments on various Senator's facebook pages. My Senator, Cornyn, received several thousand in a few minutes this afternoon when I was watching him comment about the issue. I haven't seen this much action in a long, long time- by the people.

The McCain/Kennedy Amnesty bill had nothing to do with the budget and was argued in April.  This is a budget resolution which, if not passed, will shut down the government.  I was right there with you on the Amnesty bill.  We won that one because all we had to do was kill the bill.  There was no deadline involved, no requirement that the government be funded.

This is different.  Obama and the Democrats have all the leverage.  Obama can shut down entire departments, send people home, hold up paychecks for the military.  He's the President.  And, let me assure you, if the government shuts down, the GOP will be blamed, and we will eventually fold because we'll have to.

What will be gained?  Nothing.  Oh, the Tea Partiers will feel good, but it will weaken Boehner's hand in negotiating over the debt ceiling. And it's the debt ceiling where the GOP has some leverage; it's where Boehner got the sequester in 2012.  The sequester, which the GOP House is in the process of gutting because reps like Buck McKeon just can't stand cutting anything out of defense.

Cruz could take up the cause of the sequester, which is in place and is worth defending.  Instead, he's trying to defund something which he wouldn't actually defund even if he succeeded. 
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Online mystery-ak

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Maybe he is.  But he's going to lose.  And he KNOWS he's going to lose; he said as much last week. 

So why is he doing this?   Pissing off most of the House and  half of his fellow Senators? 

Next time he asks for help from one of those Senators whom he called the equivalent of a Nazi enabler, he'll be lucky if he's not wiping spit off his face.

Cruz is actually doing what he ran on and was elected to do...try and stop Obamacare....he is not letting his constituents down imho...in fact I wish he was my Senator...
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Offline Rapunzel

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I remember when Coburn (and the class of 94) were new in 95 and were 'pissing off most of the house and senate'.  The old Bob Doyles & Trent Lotts said the same thing Coburn and others are saying now.

Yep.   DC really does cause rot from the inside out.  Cruz told Rush yesterday that sitting through a GOP Senate luncheon is the most depressing thing a person can imagine.
�The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.� G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline Lipstick on a Hillary

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Or goes on the wrong cable network.

Present for ya... 


Offline sinkspur

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You seem to forget one very salient fact! The sleeping giant is now awake and will not allow that to happen!

And when are you going to stop LYING about what Cruz said???

What sleeping giant?  The 22% who support the Tea Party? 

Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Online Bigun

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Cruz is actually doing what he ran on and was elected to do...try and stop Obamacare....he is not letting his constituents down imho...in fact I wish he was my Senator...

And I'm proud as punch that he IS my senator!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Rapunzel

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What sleeping giant?  The 22% who support the Tea Party?

I guess you forgot about 2010........ of course they may not have revealed the GOP kicked rear in 2010 over on


 
« Last Edit: September 27, 2013, 01:58:18 am by Rapunzel »
�The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.� G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline sinkspur

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Cruz is aiming for something much bigger than next week.  There are a LOT of folks rising up in support of him, and that bugs the hell out of you and those old fossilized cadavers you love so much.  You wouldn't be running all over this forum playing smash mouth, otherwise.

I don't like to lose, and we were always going to lose a confrontation over Obamacare and a Continuing Resolution.   Cruz is wasting his time and the time of legislators who want to move on to the debt ceiling fight, where the GOP's chances are much better.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Rapunzel

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It's easy to not lose if you ever refuse to put your neck out and fight in the first place.
�The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.� G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline Lipstick on a Hillary

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What sleeping giant?  The 22% who support the Tea Party?

A LOT more than 22% of the people in this country support Tea Party principles, and you know it.

 All those phone lines burning up today?  Do you really believe that represented a measly 22% of the country's viewpoint? 

Offline sinkspur

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Cruz is actually doing what he ran on and was elected to do...try and stop Obamacare....he is not letting his constituents down imho...in fact I wish he was my Senator...

He's my Senator, and I think he's a fool.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Online Bigun

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What sleeping giant?  The 22% who support the Tea Party?

Nope! Those who VOTE for republicans!! And believe me the vast majority are now fully awake entirely because of TED CRUZ!
!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Online Bigun

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He's my Senator, and I think he's a fool.

Do you get a paycheck from David Dewhurst???
« Last Edit: September 27, 2013, 02:02:43 am by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline ABX

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I don't like to lose, and we were always going to lose a confrontation over Obamacare and a Continuing Resolution.   Cruz is wasting his time and the time of legislators who want to move on to the debt ceiling fight, where the GOP's chances are much better.

Just like we lost the fight over Hillarycare and the Balanced Budget back in 95 by playing the DC game and compromising.

Oh wait, we won because we did the exact opposite. We won because we stood on principle and fought like hell and did the impossible.

Offline Rapunzel

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He's my Senator, and I think he's a fool.

You never supported him in the first place, you supported Dewhurst. 
�The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.� G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline olde north church

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I don't like to lose, and we were always going to lose a confrontation over Obamacare and a Continuing Resolution.   Cruz is wasting his time and the time of legislators who want to move on to the debt ceiling fight, where the GOP's chances are much better.

"Whaa, whaa!  The sky is falling!"
Why?  Well, because I'm a bastard, that's why.

Offline sinkspur

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A LOT more than 22% of the people in this country support Tea Party principles, and you know it.

 All those phone lines burning up today?  Do you really believe that represented a measly 22% of the country's viewpoint?

Yes.  In fact, support for the Tea Party has dropped ten points in the last year.

Noise does not equal numbers.  Most Americans don't even know this is going on.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Online Bigun

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Just like we lost the fight over Hillarycare and the Balanced Budget back in 95 by playing the DC game and compromising.

Oh wait, we won because we did the exact opposite. We won because we stood on principle and fought like hell and did the impossible.

 :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline sinkspur

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Just like we lost the fight over Hillarycare and the Balanced Budget back in 95 by playing the DC game and compromising.

Oh wait, we won because we did the exact opposite. We won because we stood on principle and fought like hell and did the impossible.

There was no budget deadline involved in 1994.  But, when there was a budget deadline involved, in 1995, and the government was shutdown, the GOP was blamed and folded in a week.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline sinkspur

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You never supported him in the first place, you supported Dewhurst.

That's right.  I voted for him last November, though, and will always vote for him. 

I didn't always agree with Kay Bailey Hutchison, either, but I always voted for her.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Rapunzel

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There was no budget deadline involved in 1994.  But, when there was a budget deadline involved, in 1995, and the government was shutdown, the GOP was blamed and folded in a week.

Actually Clinton was blamed - until Newt opened his mouth and inserted his foot and Clinton walked into the gaping hole....... but in FACT the senate won TWO seats for the GOP in the next election and we did not lose the house - and as I tell you and you continue to ignore (preferring your own history is my guess) Dole did not lose because of the shutdown unless you count in he made an ass of himself like Corker, Coburn etc., and totally pissed off the voters.  Dole was his own boring worst enemy in that election.
�The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves.� G Washington July 2, 1776

Offline ABX

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Online Bigun

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Actually Clinton was blamed - until Newt opened his mouth and inserted his foot and Clinton walked into the gaping hole....... but in FACT the senate won TWO seats for the GOP in the next election and we did not lose the house - and as I tell you and you continue to ignore (preferring your own history is my guess) Dole did not lose because of the shutdown unless you count in he made an ass of himself like Corker, Coburn etc., and totally pissed off the voters.  Dole was his own boring worst enemy in that election.

Bob Dole wasn't any different that the man he was running against and the voters figured that out rather quickly!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline ABX

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There was no budget deadline involved in 1994.  But, when there was a budget deadline involved, in 1995, and the government was shutdown, the GOP was blamed and folded in a week.

You are once again revealing the problem. Doing what is right is more important than worrying who gets the blame or the credit. If, for example, we were able to shift public support strongly against abortion and could have it end forever, but Obama gets credit, I wouldn't care who gets the credit or blame.

Or as Reagan liked to quote: "There is no limit to the amount of good you can do if you don't care who gets the credit"
« Last Edit: September 27, 2013, 02:15:07 am by AbaraXas »

Online Bigun

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That's right.  I voted for him last November, though, and will always vote for him. 

I didn't always agree with Kay Bailey Hutchison, either, but I always voted for her.

Yet you spend every waking moment here badmouthing the guy! Give me a break!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien