Author Topic: Rolling Out: Last Army tank leaves Germany.  (Read 1284 times)

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Online mystery-ak

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Rolling Out: Last Army tank leaves Germany.
« on: April 07, 2013, 09:15:37 AM »

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Offline PzLdr

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Re: Rolling Out: Last Army tank leaves Germany.
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2013, 04:00:23 PM »
http://www.weeklystandard.com/print/blogs/rolling-out_714625.html

Rolling Out
Last Army tank leaves Germany.
Geoffrey Norman
April 6, 2013 3:32 PM

Since the Shermans of General Patton's Third Army crossed the Rhine on March 22, 1945, there have been American tanks in Germany.  No more, as John Vandiver of Stars and Stripes reports.

Good that they were there, all these years.  Better that they are no longer needed.

They may still be needed. They're just not going to be there. Seems like the 20 watt bulb in the WH hasn't been paying attention to the Russian military buildup  :whistle:. And Europe couldn't even handle Serbia by itself.  :smokin:
Hillary's Self-announced Qualifications: She Stood Up To Putin...She Sits to Pee

Offline Atomic Cow

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Re: Rolling Out: Last Army tank leaves Germany.
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2013, 04:03:45 PM »
The only thing which kept the Soviets out of Western Europe was the fact that they knew we'd deploy tactical nuclear weapons against their armored columns.

The whole purpose of our armored divisions was to simply delay the Soviets long enough (a few hours to a day at best) so we could deploy our nukes against them.
"...And these atomic bombs which science burst upon the world that night were strange, even to the men who used them."  H. G. Wells, The World Set Free, 1914

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Re: Rolling Out: Last Army tank leaves Germany.
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2013, 05:42:33 PM »
How did it work winning in Iraq and Afghanistan, from the air?

Ten+ years later, and still uncertain of the future.
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline PzLdr

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Re: Rolling Out: Last Army tank leaves Germany.
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2013, 07:09:07 PM »
How did it work winning in Iraq and Afghanistan, from the air?

Ten+ years later, and still uncertain of the future.

Absolutely. And we've got a CinC who feels about nukes the same way a vampire feels about garlic pizza. And who takes longer to make a decision than the Colorado River took to carve the Grand Canyon. This is NOT a good move.  :patriot:
Hillary's Self-announced Qualifications: She Stood Up To Putin...She Sits to Pee

Offline Ford289HiPo

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Re: Rolling Out: Last Army tank leaves Germany.
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2013, 09:47:14 PM »


The whole purpose of our armored divisions was to simply delay the Soviets long enough (a few hours to a day at best) so we could deploy our nukes against them.

Soviet planners estimated it would take them 5 days from the onset of hostilities to reach Gibraltar.
I wonder when the lies will stop and truth begin, even as grim as the truth may be. And then I remember that for 70 years, the reign of terror in Russia called itself "the people's government." We have so far to fall, yet we are falling fast and Hell yawns to receive us.

Offline Atomic Cow

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Re: Rolling Out: Last Army tank leaves Germany.
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2013, 10:01:33 PM »
Soviet planners estimated it would take them 5 days from the onset of hostilities to reach Gibraltar.

The Soviet's were always a little optimistic in their estimates, even back in WWII when fighting the Germans.  They assumed NATO wouldn't risk nuclear escalation.

However, NATO would use SADMs to destroy bridges, tunnels, and mountain passes, leaving the Soviets with few routes for their tanks and causing traffic jams 20 miles long.
"...And these atomic bombs which science burst upon the world that night were strange, even to the men who used them."  H. G. Wells, The World Set Free, 1914

"The one pervading evil of democracy is the tyranny of the majority, or rather of that party, not always the majority, that succeeds, by force or fraud, in carrying elections." -Lord Acton

Offline Ford289HiPo

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Re: Rolling Out: Last Army tank leaves Germany.
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2013, 09:56:08 PM »
The Soviet's were always a little optimistic in their estimates, even back in WWII when fighting the Germans.  They assumed NATO wouldn't risk nuclear escalation.

However, NATO would use SADMs to destroy bridges, tunnels, and mountain passes, leaving the Soviets with few routes for their tanks and causing traffic jams 20 miles long.

Traffic jams, yes. The autobahns would have become the worlds largest parking lot. As for routes, the Soviets weren't actually dumb enough to plan on a main axis of attack through the Fulda Gap. That was our idea. A much better route would have been through the less defended, less restricted north across the Lueneberger Heide and then swing south.
We had the SADM's, and they were pulled out in the early 80's and the Green Light teams were disbanded.
I wonder when the lies will stop and truth begin, even as grim as the truth may be. And then I remember that for 70 years, the reign of terror in Russia called itself "the people's government." We have so far to fall, yet we are falling fast and Hell yawns to receive us.

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Re: Rolling Out: Last Army tank leaves Germany.
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2013, 10:15:30 PM »
Run by me again?

Who won the Cold War?

Glass half empty, versus glass half full.

I'm sure the Soviets had "plans" to win.

But we had plans to win too, and did.

I remember riding with my boss, back from annual marksmanship qualification at a range near Heidelberg. He said if fighting broke out, he'd send his wife in their private car, in the direction of France. He too had the story that the troops and equipment there, were a temporary holding force.

I guess it supports Reagan's strategy of peace through force. Make the other guy not want to be destroyed.
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline Ford289HiPo

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Re: Rolling Out: Last Army tank leaves Germany.
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2013, 11:12:40 PM »
Run by me again?

Who won the Cold War?

Glass half empty, versus glass half full.

I'm sure the Soviets had "plans" to win.

But we had plans to win too, and did.

I remember riding with my boss, back from annual marksmanship qualification at a range near Heidelberg. He said if fighting broke out, he'd send his wife in their private car, in the direction of France. He too had the story that the troops and equipment there, were a temporary holding force.

I guess it supports Reagan's strategy of peace through force. Make the other guy not want to be destroyed.

I would say that we were lucky.

Remember the book "The Third World War, August 1985"; by General Sir John Hackett?

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1375759.The_Third_World_War_August_1985

I was in the Border Cav (2 ACR) in West Germany at that time, and this work of fiction was taken as reality by our own side. We had 3x the amount of troops on our border camps, all prepared for the beginning of a war that was forecast in a work of fiction. Our General Defense Plan was to deploy 3 km inside Czechoslovakia prior to imminent hostilities.

As far as your bosses plan.......it would have failed. She would have never made it, and the equipment storage sites were not only painfully underequipped and had obsolete equipment, but they were big targets. 

Yeah, we spent the Soviets into oblivion, and Star Wars never came to fruition. We may not be so lucky the next time.
I wonder when the lies will stop and truth begin, even as grim as the truth may be. And then I remember that for 70 years, the reign of terror in Russia called itself "the people's government." We have so far to fall, yet we are falling fast and Hell yawns to receive us.


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