Author Topic: We Need Lunatic Control [Rush]  (Read 1182 times)

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Offline DCPatriot

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We Need Lunatic Control [Rush]
« on: December 17, 2012, 03:53:09 PM »

We Need Lunatic Control
December 17, 2012


BEGIN TRANSCRIPT

RUSH: We are gonna start somewhere in Florida with Patrice. Patrice, thank you for calling and waiting. Great to have out EIB Network. Hello.

CALLER: Hi, Rush. I was gonna comment on a couple things that I've heard lately. I am a psychiatrist. I do work in Florida. I worked with chronically mentally ill patients for over 20 years. Although I do want to say that, you know, the majority of patients who have severe psychiatric illness are not violent. What I have found in my work, clinically, is it is very difficult to get somebody committed to a state hospital because there are patient rights.



As a psychiatrist, you will have patients that may be placed on a 72-hour hold which is a BA-52. They may have done something proceeding their coming into the hospital which could be very violent. They could have threatened to kill their parents; they could have destroyed property; they could have assaulted others. They may be picked up by police, taken to jail, and then they come to the mental health unit.

And what happens is, over time -- 72 hours -- two of us psychiatrists will evaluate them. Now, let's say we do feel that they're a danger to others. Then we go to court, and they're placed on what is called the BA-32. And it can take up to four weeks to get these patients in front of a judge. But oftentimes what happens is in that four-week period of time, if you have a patient that is a psychiatric patient that does have a psychiatrist illness or have a drug-induced psychosis, which we often see...

In the inpatient unit you cannot treat them unless they're an imminent danger to themselves or others. So I have patients that are psychotic, they're agitated, they're irritable. I can't force them to take medication. I have to wait until they actually do something or are threatening or behave in such a way that we can involuntarily medicate them, and then the public defender can continue these cases for up to four weeks. So what happens is when you go to court --

RUSH: Are you saying that mental illness has become a right that people have? You have a right to be mentally ill? My next question is: Even if these obstacles that you've described weren't in your way, and even if you could commit people who you thought needed to be, where would you put them?

CALLER: Again, a couple of issues. They closed down G. Pierce Wood's, which is a state facility in Florida. So many severely psychiatrically ill patients were placed on the street. They went into group homes. They went into society.

RUSH:  Isn't that how the homeless became homeless?  They used to be institutionalized and a bunch of liberals came along and said, "They have rights! You can't keep them there"?

CALLER:  About a third, they say, of homeless patients are mentally ill.  But they're not necessarily violent.  What I'm trying to say is I can tell you that in my experience you can have a patient who's violent, you can have a patient who is mentally ill -- and I don't know the thought processes of this person who did this terrible thing.  I'm saying it's very difficult to not only get 'em committed, because, you're right, there's very few mental health resources. There's not a hospital to put 'em in, and you can't make them take medication.  And they will be discharged from the hospital.  Even as a psychiatrist, if you say, "I'm concerned. I think this person is a danger to others."  The public defender will say, "But they've been on your unit for how many weeks?  Have they hurt anybody?"  And we can tell them, "Yes, but they're on medication," but this patient is telling me they're not gonna take it when they leave.

RUSH:  Well, you're making it sound like there's nothing we can do.

CALLER:  I'm telling you that there is, in many instances, as a psychiatrist, nothing that I'm able to do in the system to get treatment for some of these patients who I feel need treatment, but you can't force them to get treatment.  You can't.  There's laws that protect them.  And I understand that, because in the past, you know, I know there was a lot of abuse of patients that were chronically mentally ill, and I don't know what this gentleman, what was going on with his head.  But I'm saying, from a reality standpoint, it's very difficult.



RUSH:  You know, you ought to read something.  I mentioned this in the first hour.  We'll link to it at RushLimbaugh.com if you want to find it the easy way, but you can also find it at Gawker.com.  It's a piece by a woman named Liza Long, "I am Adam Lanza's Mother."  In fact, I might read a couple excerpts of this.  But it is written by a woman who has a disturbed child who threatens to kill her.  He's 13, threatens to kill himself. She says, look, this kid is going to do what Adam Lanza did if something isn't done.  She describes the problems of getting him committed to a hospital, what happens when she tells him that that's what's gonna happen, he throws a fit. She fears for her own safety.  I think you'd be fascinated by it. I think everybody would, actually.

CALLER:  Well, what I'm saying is you hear people talk, "Well, there needs to be early intervention. These people need to be identified."  And, again, even if there is intervention, and even if they are identified, and even if they're in the system, you can't force them to get treatment when they leave. You can't force them to take medication when they leave.  You don't have that authority.

RUSH:  All right.  If you had the authority what would you recommend?

CALLER:  In what instance?  In a patient who has --

RUSH:  Yeah, the situation that you've described.

CALLER:  Well, ideally there's a couple of things.  If a patient has a severe psychiatric illness, and I'm saying these patients don't often react violently, but let's say you do have a patient who has a history of being violent off his medication, who has a history of assaulting family off of medication who you feel that you can get stabilized and get treated and then when they leave the hospital they refuse to take the medication.  I mean, in an ideal world, in a world that you want to protect others, you know, wouldn't it be ideal if the court could order them they have to go every two weeks or every four weeks to get their shot because you know if they don't they're gonna be a danger to others.  But that's not how the system is because unless they're imminently a danger to themselves or others, imminently --

RUSH:  Yeah.

CALLER:  --  hours away, you cannot commit them.



RUSH:  You know what would happen, if you prevailed, if you were able to deal with patients that you properly diagnosed in the way in which you've described, what would happen is some Hollywood producer would come along, hear about it, and make a movie about how one of these people so treated actually came up with the cure for cancer, but nobody was willing to listen because they were insane and that would put pressure on society not to put these people away.  It's what we've done with the homeless.  Every Christmas season, you have some leftist come along and say, "The homeless are the modern day equivalents of Mary and Joseph.  They are wandering around and there's no room at the inn."  They try to make this connection.  It's a vicious circle.  I don't envy you your job.  It sounds like a lot of frustration.  And it sounds like what we need is lunatic control, and we don't have any.

END TRANSCRIPT

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"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - Iowahawk

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: We Need Lunatic Control [Rush]
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2012, 07:34:35 PM »
Jarod Loughtner is a great example of what this caller was talking about..... read the following ... we don't have a gun problem in this country, we have an ACLU problem.....

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http://articles.latimes.com/2011/aug/31/nation/la-na-0831-jared-loughner-20110831


Judges consider Jared Lee Loughner's medication

Lawyers for the Tucson shooting suspect say his involuntary treatment with anti-psychotic drugs is a violation of his rights.

August 31, 2011|By Carol J. Williams, Los Angeles Times



Prison doctors are violating the rights of Tucson shooting suspect Jared Lee Loughner by forcibly medicating him with drugs more powerful than needed to control his outbursts, defense lawyers told a federal appeals court Tuesday.

The three-judge panel weighing Loughner's plea for an end to the involuntary medication with anti-psychotic drugs appeared sensitive to the defendant's legal arguments that, as he hasn't been tried on the 49 felony counts against him, he should retain the right to decide what drugs go into his body.

 At a hearing that could determine whether Loughner is ever rendered competent to stand trial in the Jan. 8 attack that killed six and injured 13, including Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.), the judges peppered the government's lawyer with questions, suggesting they look askance at the prison's practice of forcing psychotropic drugs on Loughner when mild sedatives would suffice.

At issue is whether Bureau of Prison policies for dealing with dangerous inmates apply to pretrial detainees, like Loughner, who was sent to a hospital in Springfield, Mo., on a federal judge's order to try to restore his mental competency so he can stand trial.

Prison medical officials have rejected the defense's calls for using tranquilizers or physical restraints, arguing that they need to treat Loughner's underlying mental illness to prevent him from being a danger to himself or others.

Loughner was diagnosed with schizophrenia during an initial confinement at the Missouri hospital and deemed incompetent to stand trial in May by U.S. District Judge Larry A. Burns.

Assistant U.S. Atty. Christina M. Cabanillas told the panel that Supreme Court case law obliged them to defer to the prison administration's judgment on what medication was necessary and appropriate to "mitigate his dangerousness." Loughner has reportedly thrown the chair in his cell against the wall, spat at one of his attorneys and shouted expletives and unintelligible rants.

In legal papers filed with the court, Loughner's attorneys argued that his behavior didn't justify treatment with powerful anti-psychotic drugs, and that the medications could have long-term negative health effects and damage his ability to assist in his own defense if he is eventually put on trial.

In court, defense attorney Reuben Camper Cahn urged the judges to require prison officials to get federal court approval for their involuntary treatment plans.

One of the panelists, Judge J. Clifford Wallace, observed that Loughner might have a "liberty interest" in not being rendered competent to face charges that could lead to a death penalty.

Another U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals panel last month issued a temporary injunction against forcing the drugs on Loughner, but prison doctors resumed them on July 18, citing emergency circumstances.

Tuesday's panel, on which Wallace was joined by Judges Marsha S. Berzon and Jay S. Bybee, isn't expected to rule for several weeks.

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: We Need Lunatic Control [Rush]
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2012, 07:35:52 PM »

Offline Rapunzel

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Re: We Need Lunatic Control [Rush]
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2012, 07:37:22 PM »
and what really ticked me off is Giffords husband was out this weekend calling for gun control...... when he should be screaming at the top of his  lungs to do something about people like Loughtner in society.  My guess is given his age that Lanza, too, probably morphed into Schizophrenia....

Offline Oceander

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Re: We Need Lunatic Control [Rush]
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2012, 11:28:18 AM »
We also need media control.  It is the media that have so saturated our culture with violence, and so linked violence with entertainment that killing is not only an acceptable way for the "good guys" to deal with the "bad guys" it is, in fact, pleasurable, something fun to do.  If anyone seriously doubts this proposition, he or she need look no further than Showtime's series Dexter.  Here is the basic plot theme from the Wikipedia article on this abomination of a show:

Quote
Orphaned at the age of three due to the murder of his mother, Dexter Morgan is adopted by Miami police officer Harry Morgan and his wife Doris. After discovering that young Dexter has been killing neighborhood pets for several years, Harry tells Dexter that he believes the need to kill "got into" him at too early an age, and that he believes Dexter's need to kill will only grow. To keep Dexter from killing innocent people, Harry begins teaching The Code to Dexter: Dexter's victims must be killers themselves who have killed someone without justifiable cause and are likely to do so again. Dexter must also always be sure that his target is guilty, and thus, frequently goes to extreme lengths to get undeniable proof of his victim's guilt. Most importantly, Dexter must never get caught. Flashbacks throughout the series show Harry (who died several years previously) instructing Dexter on how to masquerade with typical human behavior, how to cover his tracks after a kill, and even how to stranglehold a target to knock them out and capture them.

Dexter has followed The Code religiously to satisfy his "Dark Passenger" (the name he has assigned to his urge to kill). However, in Season 4, he hastily kills a photographer who then proves to be innocent. Like many serial killers, Dexter keeps a trophy for each kill. Before dispatching a wrongdoer, Dexter makes an incision on his victim's cheek with a scalpel and collects a blood sample, which he preserves on a blood slide. He stores his collection in a box concealed inside his air conditioner.

In other words, if you know of someone who appears to be developing into a serial killer, someone who has an unstoppable need to kill, you don't take any steps to have them confined or restricted, instead you teach them to go after the people you think deserve to be killed.  Talk about loading a firearm and pointing it at society in general!

This is serial killer as hero, as someone to be worshiped for killing people who "deserve" to be killed, and the Constitution, due process, and the rest of that namby-pamby rule of law stuff be damned.

Does that sound like someone who was just recently in the news?  I will bet anyone here very good money that the monster who did the Newton killings watched Dexter.  I will bet you very, very good money.

As a believer in the First Amendment, I would generally say this has to be done through social pressure, e.g., good old-fashioned ostracism.  However, since the left have so kindly handed us all manner of thought-crime legislation, e.g., hate crimes, it seems only reasonable at this point in time to enact legislation making it illegal to broadcast material that contributes to the level of acceptable violence in this country.  Since what's wanted is a law that targets mass media - i.e., broadcasting violent fare to large numbers of people - we could also attack it under the Commerce Clause because this is certainly material that is sold in interstate commerce and can therefore be regulated to a fare-thee-well under well-developed Commerce Clause jurisprudence.

We could even attack this metastasizing cancer under the taxing power, now that the left have so conveniently handed us the precedent of Obastardcare.  Any broadcast, display, or other publication of materials intended for a general audience that depicts graphic violence should henceforth be subjected to a tax equal to 80% of the gross revenues derived from any broadcast, display, or publication - including publication of materials intended to be viewed in private homes - of any material depicting graphic violence.

I, for one, vote for the taxing power route.  First off, how can any democrat complain about a measure that is intended to raise lots of new revenue?  And since the taxing power is not per se trumped by the First Amendment, we really don't have a First Amendment problem, either:  you can broadcast it all you want, so long as you pay the appropriate taxes.

This should definitely get slipping into any fiscal cliff tax compromise.

Offline DCPatriot

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Re: We Need Lunatic Control [Rush]
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2012, 11:54:53 AM »
I still recall as little boy attending Catholic parochial school and serving Mass.

Back then they had what's called the "Legion of Decency", which predated Hollywood's movie grading system.

Brdget Bardot's "And God Created Women" was the first and only X-rated movie I can remember.

Today, viewing that film, you find yourself wondering.....why all the fuss? 
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - Iowahawk

Offline Scottftlc

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Re: We Need Lunatic Control [Rush]
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2012, 12:04:03 PM »
I won't take that bet, Oceander.  Nope, not at all.
Well, George Lewis told the Englishman, the Italian and the Jew
You can't open your mind, boys, to every conceivable point of view

...Bob Dylan

Offline DCPatriot

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Re: We Need Lunatic Control [Rush]
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2012, 12:18:40 PM »
Dexter is merely an updated version of Star Chamber in a sense that guilty perps who escape justice on technicalities are dispatched with extreme prejudice.

I do agree with the idea of taxing the heck out of violent films....to the point that it's not worth making them.

Growing up watching Hop-a-Long Cassidy and the Lone Ranger, the bad guys always were caught and punished.   Shot multiple times and not one drop of blood anywhere.

People complained back then that it gave children a dangerous idea that pulling a trigger and seeing somebody fall without visible wounds was fooling them into minimizing the consequences of shooting somebody with a gun.

Today....blood mists explode at the sound of the gunfire and the crowds sit there staring eating popcorn.
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - Iowahawk

Offline Scottftlc

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Re: We Need Lunatic Control [Rush]
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2012, 12:44:56 PM »
In Dexter, the murder is ritualized and very "wet" work.  It is a bit surprising that some crazy hasn't tried to duplicate that ritual - the plastic sheeting, a kill room, knife to the heart thing.

There is a certain level of insanity present in the show - which as drama works very effectively - but if you step back an analyze what you are watching from a moral standpoint it is pretty awful...compared to cowboy and Indian shootouts.
Well, George Lewis told the Englishman, the Italian and the Jew
You can't open your mind, boys, to every conceivable point of view

...Bob Dylan

Offline Charlespg

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Re: We Need Lunatic Control [Rush]
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2013, 08:52:25 PM »
Jarod Loughtner is a great example of what this caller was talking about..... read the following ... we don't have a gun problem in this country, we have an ACLU problem.....

+++++++++++++++++++

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/aug/31/nation/la-na-0831-jared-loughner-20110831



      :amen:     look up O Conner vs Donaldson

http://www.treatmentadvocacycenter.org/component/content/article/341

The ACLU has taken this ruling and run with it
Rather Trump Then Cackles Clinton


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