Author Topic: NFL supports decision to not overturn Seahawks' touchdown  (Read 2995 times)

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Offline mystery-ak

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NFL supports decision to not overturn Seahawks' touchdown
« on: September 25, 2012, 01:35:04 PM »
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000066164/article/nfl-supports-decision-to-not-overturn-seahawks-touchdown

NFL supports decision to not overturn Seahawks' touchdown

    National Football League
    Published: Sept. 25, 2012 at 12:21 p.m.
    Updated: Sept. 25, 2012 at 01:25 p.m.



Editor's note: The following is a statement issued by the NFL regarding Golden Tate's game-winning touchdown catch at the conclusion of Monday night's game between the Green Bay Packers and Seattle Seahawks:

In Monday's game between the Green Bay Packers and Seattle Seahawks, Seattle faced a 4th-and-10 from the Green Bay 24 with eight seconds remaining in the game.

Seattle quarterback Russell Wilson threw a pass into the end zone. Several players, including Seattle wide receiver Golden Tate and Green Bay safety M.D. Jennings, jumped into the air in an attempt to catch the ball.

While the ball is in the air, Tate can be seen shoving Green Bay cornerback Sam Shields to the ground. This should have been a penalty for offensive pass interference, which would have ended the game. It was not called and is not reviewable in instant replay.

When the players hit the ground in the end zone, the officials determined that both Tate and Jennings had possession of the ball. Under the rule for simultaneous catch, the ball belongs to Tate, the offensive player. The result of the play was a touchdown.

Replay Official Howard Slavin stopped the game for an instant replay review. The aspects of the play that were reviewable included if the ball hit the ground and who had possession of the ball. In the end zone, a ruling of a simultaneous catch is reviewable. That is not the case in the field of play, only in the end zone.

Referee Wayne Elliott determined that no indisputable visual evidence existed to overturn the call on the field, and as a result, the on-field ruling of touchdown stood. The NFL Officiating Department reviewed the video today and supports the decision not to overturn the on-field ruling following the instant replay review.

The result of the game is final.

Applicable rules to the play are as follows:

A player (or players) jumping in the air has not legally gained possession of the ball until he satisfies the elements of a catch listed here.

Rule 8, Section 1, Article 3 of the NFL Rule Book defines a catch:

A forward pass is complete (by the offense) or intercepted (by the defense) if a player, who is inbounds:

(a) secures control of the ball in his hands or arms prior to the ball touching the ground; and

(b) touches the ground inbounds with both feet or with any part of his body other than his hands; and

(c) maintains control of the ball long enough, after (a) and (b) have been fulfilled, to enable him to perform any act common to the game (i.e., maintaining control long enough to pitch it, pass it, advance with it, or avoid or ward off an opponent, etc.).

When a player (or players) is going to the ground in the attempt to catch a pass, Rule 8, Section 1, Article 3, Item 1 states:

Player Going to the Ground. If a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass (with or without contact by an opponent), he must maintain control of the ball throughout the process of contacting the ground, whether in the field of play or the end zone. If he loses control of the ball, and the ball touches the ground before he regains control, the pass is incomplete. If he regains control prior to the ball touching the ground, the pass is complete.

Rule 8, Section 1, Article 3, Item 5 states:

Simultaneous Catch. If a pass is caught simultaneously by two eligible opponents, and both players retain it, the ball belongs to the passers. It is not a simultaneous catch if a player gains control first and an opponent subsequently gains joint control. If the ball is muffed after simultaneous touching by two such players, all the players of the passing team become eligible to catch the loose ball.

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Offline Scottftlc

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Re: NFL supports decision to not overturn Seahawks' touchdown
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2012, 01:56:49 PM »
I'm a Seahawk's fan (a very rare bird indeed) so I'll take one finally falling on our side...for once...hell, we had a Super Bowl taken from us by bad calls.

The officiating overall in that game was beyond terrible.  It wasn't just the last call.  The Packers got two phantom PI calls in their favor on the drive for their only TD.  The first down that they supposedly got at the one on that same drive was a terrible call as well.  And the Seahawks benefited from a ridiculous roughing the passer call on the Packers when Wilson had thrown a pick deep in his own territory.  And then there were strange and numerous holding calls throughout the game.  It was a complete mess.

So I'm glad we got the break at the end...even with the obvious offensive pass interference that Tate committed prior to the simultaneous catch.  We deserve to be on the good side every once in awhile.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2012, 01:57:07 PM by ScottftlcRČ »
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Online DCPatriot

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Re: NFL supports decision to not overturn Seahawks' touchdown
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2012, 02:02:28 PM »
The referees were not the ones responsible for the Green Bay loss.

The culprits are the members of the Packer offense that concentrated on the attempt to CATCH the ball.....when all they had to do is knock/deflect the ball out of bounds or to the ground.
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Offline sinkspur

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Re: NFL supports decision to not overturn Seahawks' touchdown
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2012, 03:40:12 PM »
The referees were not the ones responsible for the Green Bay loss.

The culprits are the members of the Packer offense that concentrated on the attempt to CATCH the ball.....when all they had to do is knock/deflect the ball out of bounds or to the ground.

Mike Jennings had possession of the ball when the "scrum" hit the ground.  The refs blew the call.  Finally, these amateurs have cost a team a game.

However, I don't feel sorry for anybody.  It's the owners who refuse to negotiate in good faith the regular refs, so it's poetic justice if an owner or two gets his team stuffed.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline jmyrlefuller

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Re: NFL supports decision to not overturn Seahawks' touchdown
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2012, 05:27:48 PM »
Mike Jennings had possession of the ball when the "scrum" hit the ground.  The refs blew the call.  Finally, these amateurs have cost a team a game.

However, I don't feel sorry for anybody.  It's the owners who refuse to negotiate in good faith the regular refs, so it's poetic justice if an owner or two gets his team stuffed.
The problem is that it isn't just the referees that blew this. It was reviewed in detail-- and upheld. The league reviewed it-- and still upheld it. This was despite such obvious evidence to the contrary. This isn't just the scabs screwing something up. It is a catastrophic failure of the entire system.

Offline Chieftain

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Re: NFL supports decision to not overturn Seahawks' touchdown
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2012, 06:18:16 PM »
The problem is that it isn't just the referees that blew this. It was reviewed in detail-- and upheld. The league reviewed it-- and still upheld it. This was despite such obvious evidence to the contrary. This isn't just the scabs screwing something up. It is a catastrophic failure of the entire system.

yep...that's pretty much how I see it too.  I have DirecTV's Red Zone, and the officiating at every single game this weekend was abysmal.  I don't know where they recruited these guys from but they clearly don't have what it takes to call an NFL game.  Last night's fiasco could have happened at any game over the weekend, and it is sheer dumb luck that every single game isn't in question...


Offline evadRČ

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Re: NFL supports decision to not overturn Seahawks' touchdown
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2012, 06:49:27 PM »
When the players hit the ground in the end zone, the officials determined that both Tate and Jennings had possession of the ball. Under the rule for simultaneous catch, the ball belongs to Tate, the offensive player. The result of the play was a touchdown.

but...but...that's not what happened. The Official(s) didn't call touchdown . One called touch back.

simultaneous catch...there was no simultaneous catch. Tate didn't get control of the ball until the ground scrum.
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Offline evadRČ

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Re: NFL supports decision to not overturn Seahawks' touchdown
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2012, 06:51:12 PM »
The black ref made the correct call.
He got overruled by the white ref.
RACISM

November 6, 2012, a day in infamy...the death of a republic as we know it.

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Re: NFL supports decision to not overturn Seahawks' touchdown
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2012, 08:21:06 PM »
Once again, had the defenders acted like it was volleyball, we wouldn't be discussing this.

IMO, it was a breakdown of the defense.  Period.

I'll bet you teams will NOT be trying to 'intercept' in that situation ever again.  Should have been battered into the stands.
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

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Offline evadRČ

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Re: NFL supports decision to not overturn Seahawks' touchdown
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2012, 11:10:51 PM »
Once again, had the defenders acted like it was volleyball, we wouldn't be discussing this.

IMO, it was a breakdown of the defense.  Period.

I'll bet you teams will NOT be trying to 'intercept' in that situation ever again.  Should have been battered into the stands.
In the Tennessee - Detroit game this weekend, the defender attempted to do exactly what you said. He wound up batting the ball directly into the arms of the offense who walked in for a TD.
November 6, 2012, a day in infamy...the death of a republic as we know it.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: NFL supports decision to not overturn Seahawks' touchdown
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2012, 11:13:33 PM »
Once again, had the defenders acted like it was volleyball, we wouldn't be discussing this.

IMO, it was a breakdown of the defense.  Period.

I'll bet you teams will NOT be trying to 'intercept' in that situation ever again.  Should have been battered into the stands.

Defensive backs instinctively try to intercept, especially if they know they've got a shot at it.

I'll bet you're wrong.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Chieftain

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Re: NFL supports decision to not overturn Seahawks' touchdown
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2012, 12:11:06 AM »

Offline Atomic Cow

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Re: NFL supports decision to not overturn Seahawks' touchdown
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2012, 12:21:46 AM »
"...And these atomic bombs which science burst upon the world that night were strange, even to the men who used them."  H. G. Wells, The World Set Free, 1914

"The one pervading evil of democracy is the tyranny of the majority, or rather of that party, not always the majority, that succeeds, by force or fraud, in carrying elections." -Lord Acton

Offline Atomic Cow

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Re: NFL supports decision to not overturn Seahawks' touchdown
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2012, 12:24:34 AM »
I really do not care much for the refs and their demands seeing how much they make.  Even the starting pay for NFL refs is more than what I make in 2 years and the top of the line refs like Ed Hochuli and Mike Carey can easily be making 140,000+ a year.

I'd like to make that much for 5-6 months of work (a few days a week) and probably having a lot of fun doing it.

Unions always try to demand more than they deserve.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2012, 12:25:15 AM by Atomic Cow »
"...And these atomic bombs which science burst upon the world that night were strange, even to the men who used them."  H. G. Wells, The World Set Free, 1914

"The one pervading evil of democracy is the tyranny of the majority, or rather of that party, not always the majority, that succeeds, by force or fraud, in carrying elections." -Lord Acton

Offline Chieftain

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Re: NFL supports decision to not overturn Seahawks' touchdown
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2012, 12:27:19 AM »
I really do not care much for the refs and their demands seeing how much they make.  Even the starting pay for NFL refs is more than what I make in 2 years and the top of the line refs like Ed Hochuli and Mike Carey can easily be making 140,000+ a year.

I'd like to make that much for 5-6 months of work (a few days a week) and probably having a lot of fun doing it.

Unions always try to demand more than they deserve.

But as we saw over the past three weeks, there is great value to the work they do, and IMHO they are worth what they make.

Pay them.  Pay them now.  Pay them whatever it takes to get them back out on the frickin' field.  It isn't like the NFL doesn't have the money.  Buy fewer pink breast cancer accessories this year.  Whatever it takes.




Offline Atomic Cow

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Re: NFL supports decision to not overturn Seahawks' touchdown
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2012, 12:37:26 AM »
But as we saw over the past three weeks, there is great value to the work they do, and IMHO they are worth what they make.

Pay them.  Pay them now.  Pay them whatever it takes to get them back out on the frickin' field.  It isn't like the NFL doesn't have the money.  Buy fewer pink breast cancer accessories this year.  Whatever it takes.

It's not pay they're fighting about, it is the pension system.  They want the exact same pension system the players get, which IMO is overkill for the amount of work they do.  The players don't just work 1-2 days a week; but are always practicing, working out, and preparing for the next game.  Most of the refs have other job they go to during the week.
"...And these atomic bombs which science burst upon the world that night were strange, even to the men who used them."  H. G. Wells, The World Set Free, 1914

"The one pervading evil of democracy is the tyranny of the majority, or rather of that party, not always the majority, that succeeds, by force or fraud, in carrying elections." -Lord Acton

Offline evadRČ

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Re: NFL supports decision to not overturn Seahawks' touchdown
« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2012, 10:15:55 AM »
It's not pay they're fighting about, it is the pension system.  They want the exact same pension system the players get, which IMO is overkill for the amount of work they do.  The players don't just work 1-2 days a week; but are always practicing, working out, and preparing for the next game.  Most of the refs have other job they go to during the week.
I think the refs are asking for the same pension system that they NOW have. The owners want to change it. When the refs refused, the owners locked them out. The refs are not on strike, they are locked out.
I'm amazed the great Bambi hasn't interjected himself and waved his magic negro wand to make it all okie dokie.
Don't get me wrong, I couldn't care less if they fire the whole bunch and start all over with individual contracts. But the credibility and quality of the game is in a shambles right now and I think you have to put the onus on the owners for the lockout.
Anyway, this season is done for me. My skins suck horribly in spite of RG3 and all his efforts.
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Offline evadRČ

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Re: NFL supports decision to not overturn Seahawks' touchdown
« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2012, 04:38:25 PM »
Looks like they're close to a settlement. Real refs could be back for week 4.
I wonder who caved?
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Offline jmyrlefuller

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Re: NFL supports decision to not overturn Seahawks' touchdown
« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2012, 04:44:41 PM »
But as we saw over the past three weeks, there is great value to the work they do, and IMHO they are worth what they make.

Pay them.  Pay them now.  Pay them whatever it takes to get them back out on the frickin' field.  It isn't like the NFL doesn't have the money.  Buy fewer pink breast cancer accessories this year.  Whatever it takes.
Well, here's the other wrinkle:

This isn't the first time they've used replacement refs in a lockout. They also did it 11 years ago-- I remember it well. Those refs were competent-- better than even the regulars. This year they purposely excluded the best replacements (e.g. Division I-FBS college ball, CFL) from the field, ostensibly to prevent them from being blackballed as scabs, but more likely to bring in purposefully bad talent to try and force a deal. (It's working.) At least one of them has been identified as someone who was fired from the Lingerie Football League for incompetence.

There are ways to do this lockout without sacrificing the integrity of the game. The NFL chose not to go that route this time around.

Offline evadRČ

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Re: NFL supports decision to not overturn Seahawks' touchdown
« Reply #19 on: September 26, 2012, 06:45:29 PM »
I was with you till this comment...
".. but more likely to bring in purposefully bad talent to try and force a deal."
Why would the owners do this?
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Offline jmyrlefuller

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Re: NFL supports decision to not overturn Seahawks' touchdown
« Reply #20 on: September 26, 2012, 07:21:01 PM »
« Last Edit: September 26, 2012, 07:22:11 PM by jmyrlefuller »

Offline mystery-ak

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Offline collins

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Re: NFL supports decision to not overturn Seahawks' touchdown
« Reply #22 on: September 26, 2012, 07:29:58 PM »
Well, here's the other wrinkle:

This isn't the first time they've used replacement refs in a lockout. They also did it 11 years ago-- I remember it well. Those refs were competent-- better than even the regulars. This year they purposely excluded the best replacements (e.g. Division I-FBS college ball, CFL) from the field, ostensibly to prevent them from being blackballed as scabs, but more likely to bring in purposefully bad talent to try and force a deal. (It's working.) At least one of them has been identified as someone who was fired from the Lingerie Football League for incompetence.

There are ways to do this lockout without sacrificing the integrity of the game. The NFL chose not to go that route this time around.

Ohhhh, I didn't know about all this. I was wondering why these scabs sucked so bad in comparison to the way they were all those years ago. Dirty tactic, IMO, causing the NFL season so far to be almost unwatchable.

Offline R4 TrumPence

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Re: NFL supports decision to not overturn Seahawks' touchdown
« Reply #23 on: September 26, 2012, 09:25:58 PM »


I am Repub4Bush on FR '02

Offline Chieftain

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Re: NFL supports decision to not overturn Seahawks' touchdown
« Reply #24 on: September 26, 2012, 09:29:06 PM »
Well, here's the other wrinkle:

This isn't the first time they've used replacement refs in a lockout. They also did it 11 years ago-- I remember it well. Those refs were competent-- better than even the regulars. This year they purposely excluded the best replacements (e.g. Division I-FBS college ball, CFL) from the field, ostensibly to prevent them from being blackballed as scabs, but more likely to bring in purposefully bad talent to try and force a deal. (It's working.) At least one of them has been identified as someone who was fired from the Lingerie Football League for incompetence.

There are ways to do this lockout without sacrificing the integrity of the game. The NFL chose not to go that route this time around.

I don't know who they could have hired that would do a worse job.  I've seen high school games called more competently than just about anything I saw over the weekend.  Whomever came up with this strategery ought to have his ass kicked before they fire him....



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