Author Topic: New Jersey mother arrested after fair-skinned daughter, FIVE, was severely burne  (Read 3161 times)

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Offline Charlespg

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Rather Trump Then Cackles Clinton

Offline Chieftain

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Come on Charles!  Get with the program here!  I'm sure this fine Mother was just toning up her daughter for an appearance on "Toddlers and Tiaras".....

Toggle/PROG/Off........


Online aligncare

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please please  take that the kid away 

But then I should have been taken away from my parents in 1961 when we would come home from the beach burnt to a crisp.  We stayed all day with my parents taking no more precautions with us than putting our shirts back on in the heat of the afternoon sun--which we immediately removed once we were out of sight.

But back then it didn't take a village.  Today, society gets to judge our parenting skills.  I'm not sure if that's covered under 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.'  I understand nanny science tells us to fear sun exposure (I know I'm inviting anecdotes about skin cancer, but please spare us all.  That's a different argument).

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending this woman, she's too creepy for that.  I'm just making a general lament.  File it under one more blow against family sovereignty.
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Offline Chieftain

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But then I should have been taken away from my parents in 1961 when we would come home from the beach burnt to a crisp.  We stayed all day with my parents taking no more precautions with us than putting our shirts back on in the heat of the afternoon sun--which we immediately removed once we were out of sight.

But back then it didn't take a village.  Today, society gets to judge our parenting skills.  I'm not sure if that's covered under 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.'  I understand nanny science tells us to fear sun exposure (I know I'm inviting anecdotes about skin cancer, but please spare us all.  That's a different argument).

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending this woman, she's too creepy for that.  I'm just making a general lament.  File it under one more blow against family sovereignty.

Have you seen the video of this woman yet?  Its clear to me from her appearance that she has some kind of fetish going because she is un-naturally tanned, and I mean she makes John Boehner look like a native Norwegian  by comparison....


Online aligncare

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I admit I didn't look into the video.  Perhaps she may need counseling or legal intervention, I don't know.  Is there a husband or child's father around?  Maybe he should get her help.

My original point is still good though.  There is a higher degree of nanny state and community involvement in our lives today compared to the past.  Look at homeowners associations that have sprung up.  Can you imagine having to toe the line with busy bodies telling you how your house should look?  Talk about a "village".

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Offline Charlespg

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But then I should have been taken away from my parents in 1961 when we would come home from the beach burnt to a crisp.  We stayed all day with my parents taking no more precautions with us than putting our shirts back on in the heat of the afternoon sun--which we immediately removed once we were out of sight.

But back then it didn't take a village.  Today, society gets to judge our parenting skills.  I'm not sure if that's covered under 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.'  I understand nanny science tells us to fear sun exposure (I know I'm inviting anecdotes about skin cancer, but please spare us all.  That's a different argument).

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending this woman, she's too creepy for that.  I'm just making a general lament.  File it under one more blow against family sovereignty.
This is 5 year old kid,sometimes it does take  a villiage if its something like this when mommy is the villiage idiot and child endangerment  is involved
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Online aligncare

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Did my parents endanger me in 1961?  Sunlight is the same or worse than bulbs.  I blistered quite a few times on those beach outings.  But then, so did my cousins and friends and other children at the beach. As I recall Mom looked like a lobster more than a few times during my youth.  Should she have been arrested?
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Offline Chieftain

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While we have seen the pictures of the mother, all we have right now are verbal descriptions of the burns to this little girl.  They were apparently bad enough for someone to be concerned enough to call the authorities, and the authorities were sufficiently concerned to arrest Mom and get the kid to the hospital.  The sensationist headlines aside, we don't know what really happened and there is sufficient cause to find out.

The way we resolve issues like this one is in a Court of Law.  That is what we created the courts for in the first place, and why the Judiciary is the third leg of our Government.  Since we do not have all of the facts in front of us, my counsel is to wait and see what actually happened as this case works its way through the courts. 

Online aligncare

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If this were happening in Bizzerkley, that woman would be on death row by now.
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Offline Chieftain

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If this were happening in Bizzerkley, that woman would be on death row by now.

I don't see any facts to back that statement up either.


Offline Atomic Cow

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The mother is a walking case of melanoma waiting to happen.
"...And these atomic bombs which science burst upon the world that night were strange, even to the men who used them."  H. G. Wells, The World Set Free, 1914

"The one pervading evil of democracy is the tyranny of the majority, or rather of that party, not always the majority, that succeeds, by force or fraud, in carrying elections." -Lord Acton

Offline Scythian

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Ladies and Gentleman, introducing "Miss Vitamin D" ...

Mama always told me not to look into the eyes of the sun, but mama, that's where the fun is ....

In all seriousness, tanning beds are very dangerous, nobody should use them let alone children, that lady is really, very, very stupid and doesn't care about her daughter because she must know the dangers.
It is almost a law of history that the same wealth that generates a civilization announces its decay. For wealth produce ease as well as art; it softens a people to the ways of luxury and peace and invites invasion from stronger arms and hungrier mouths.

- Will Durant

Online aligncare

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That's the problem with the arrest.  It's not automatic that people get skin cancer.  Millions of people receive sun exposure, sometimes in excess of what is considered 'safe', yet they never develop skin cancer.  

So we should start arresting people over not heeding a health tip?  Like eat an apple a day or drink 8 glasses of water a day, don't smoke we know smoking can kill you?  

But what do we do with contradictory health advice?  Statistic show people are not getting proper sunlight for their bodies to make vitamin D.  Can we start arresting mothers who keep children out of the sun?
« Last Edit: May 03, 2012, 02:31:07 PM by aligncare »
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Offline truth_seeker

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That's the problem with the arrest.  It's not automatic that people get skin cancer.  Millions of people receive sun exposure, sometimes in excess of what is considered 'safe', yet they never develop skin cancer.  

So we should start arresting people over not heeding a health tip?  Like eat an apple a day or drink 8 glasses of water a day, stop smoking we know it can kill?  

But what do we do with contradictory health advice?  Statistic show people are not getting proper sunlight for their bodies to make vitamin D.  Can we start arresting mothers who keep children out of the sun?
The two places I know of with governments big enough to monitor and tackle all of these issues were the Soviet Union and communist China.

Play the tape all the way through, before wishing for your government to solve all your bleeding heart concerns.
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Online aligncare

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So the question seems to be, do we want a big brother society?  Is that what we want?  Government to take our children away for wrong parenting behavior?  How about snack foods and obese kids?  Is that next?
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Offline Rapunzel

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The little girl is FIVE years old and a redhead with very fair skin.

It is ILLEGAL for anyone under age 14 to even be in a tanning salon

In fact tanning in this manner has been proven hazardous

This is NOT the same as taking your child to the beach for the day..... where "most" parents have the good sense to keep them out of direct sun and liberally apply sun screen.

Offline truth_seeker

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The little girl is FIVE years old and a redhead with very fair skin.

It is ILLEGAL for anyone under age 14 to even be in a tanning salon

In fact tanning in this manner has been proven hazardous

This is NOT the same as taking your child to the beach for the day..... where "most" parents have the good sense to keep them out of direct sun and liberally apply sun screen.
Maybe the question should be:  Can we afford(1) a government big enough to enact and enforce the law making it illegal?

I think that is fundamental, for anybody claiming to be conservative.

(1)Afford not only in money terms, but in encroachment into everyday lives of the family and community.
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline Lipstick on a Hillary

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Did my parents endanger me in 1961?  Sunlight is the same or worse than bulbs.  I blistered quite a few times on those beach outings.  But then, so did my cousins and friends and other children at the beach. As I recall Mom looked like a lobster more than a few times during my youth.  Should she have been arrested?

AC, not to put too fine a point on this argument, but people did not know about the dangers of over exposure in 1961--nobody ever heard of melanoma back then.  Since its common knowledge today, I think perhaps the mother should be held to a higher standard of accountability than your or my parents of 1961.

Online aligncare

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But that's exactly the point, Lipstick.  Knowledge makes a difference.

I wear my seat belts because I understand the danger in not wearing one and I don't want to take that risk.  Not because the nice policeman just gave me a ticket for not wearing them.  Frankly, I hadn't clicked them quick enough as I took off when the cop happened to notice me ... 

Apparently folks want a nanny state threatening us with fines and arrest if we don't do what's good for us--or what's healthy for us.  And in the case of the New Jersey mom--face arrest for stupidity.

People understood the law when it was based on biblical principles; don't rob, steal, murder.  I don't think the bible could have anticipated environmental laws, cell phone laws or tanning salon laws.

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Offline Rapunzel

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It sounds like in your libertarian world AC we should look the other way when it comes to child abuse..... 

Online aligncare

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Not at all.  Child abuse is not what I'm talking about.

In the story I told earlier, that was about my brothers and me getting severe sunburns, not whether my parents understood the potential long-term effects of sun exposure.

I had some pretty severe sunburns that keep me up in tears at night.  Was that child abuse?  Or just my parent's ignorance?  Do we want to arrest the stupid?

And here's another side.  My in-laws were ruined when their youngest child got a black eye on a swing set, went to school the next day where a teacher reported it to child protective services as potential abuse.  It was a play yard accident that dragged them through months of hell.
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Offline truth_seeker

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It sounds like in your libertarian world AC we should look the other way when it comes to child abuse..... 
Are we so much better off now, with this level of legal regulation, or were we better off in the past?

In the past people had fewer children outside wedlock, risking shame, etc. Perhaps they commited fewer acts of negligence with their children, risking their families' and neighbors' involvement.

From my observations about the state of society, I say we were better off in the past.
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Online Oceander

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Maybe the question should be:  Can we afford(1) a government big enough to enact and enforce the law making it illegal?

I think that is fundamental, for anybody claiming to be conservative.

(1)Afford not only in money terms, but in encroachment into everyday lives of the family and community.


That is the right question, and it also requires a careful philosophical examination because, inevitably, one has to confront the fact that without such a law there is no question but that some innocent children - such as this one - will be hurt, perhaps grievously hurt.  Perhaps the rejoinder is that (a) such a law will not prevent children from continuing to get hurt, and (b) will simply increase bureaucracy and eat up more wealth taken in the form of taxes, thereby depriving one or more other children of something, with that deprivation essentially cancelling the marginal benefit of preventing a few extra children from getting harmed in this manner.

Offline Lipstick on a Hillary

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Are we so much better off now, with this level of legal regulation, or were we better off in the past?

In the past people had fewer children outside wedlock, risking shame, etc. Perhaps they commited fewer acts of negligence with their children, risking their families' and neighbors' involvement.

From my observations about the state of society, I say we were better off in the past.


All well and good, but how does that help the abused children of today?  Do we tell them "tough s***, you should've been born in the good old days"?

Offline Lipstick on a Hillary

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Not at all.  Child abuse is not what I'm talking about.

In the story I told earlier, that was about my brothers and me getting severe sunburns, not whether my parents understood the potential long-term effects of sun exposure.

I had some pretty severe sunburns that keep me up in tears at night.  Was that child abuse?  Or just my parent's ignorance?  Do we want to arrest the stupid?

And here's another side.  My in-laws were ruined when their youngest child got a black eye on a swing set, went to school the next day where a teacher reported it to child protective services as potential abuse.  It was a play yard accident that dragged them through months of hell.

Since you're talking about your family, let me throw out this hypothetical... how would you have reacted if this were your grandchild? 


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