Author Topic: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds  (Read 6248 times)

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Offline DCPatriot

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That argument might fly if we were more discriminatory about who and when we offer support.  We can't be everything to everyone, as hard as we try.

Again, it makes sense to form temporary alliances to accomplish specific purposes.  That does not shackle us to our provisional allies for the rest of time.

These people never played MONOPOLY as kids....and it shows.
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Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Can we just support the Kurds by proxy by sending them arms and intelligence and stuff?

Seems like there's room for a compromise here.

Offline edpc

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Those 50 soldiers...are Green Berets.  50 Special Forces soldiers are the equivalent of 200 regular infantry soldiers in any other army on the planet.  They are a "force multiplier".  Turkey didn't make a move until they were gone because it would have gone very badly for them otherwise.

So those that try to minimize it as "only 50 soldiers" are saying that from a very uninformed point of view.


Yes, similar to the way they operated with the Montagnard, in Vietnam.
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Offline Victoria33

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@txradioguy

It is the Kurds holding the thousands of ISIS prisoners.  Wipe out the Kurd military and ISIS is loose again.
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Offline ExFreeper

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@ExFreeper first off...the soldiers were told to pull back...THEN the invasion started.  Turkey hadn't made a move in several years in that area.  They only did it becasue Trump retreated.

Those 50 soldiers...are Green Berets.  50 Special Forces soldiers are the equivalent of 200 regular infantry soldiers in any other army on the planet.  They are a "force multiplier".  Turkey didn't make a move until they were gone because it would have gone very badly for them otherwise.

So those that try to minimize it as "only 50 soldiers" are saying that from a very uninformed point of view.

Our retreat paved the way for what Turkey is about to do to the Kurds.

Relocating 50 Green Berets is not retreat! We are not an invading country and we should not be in Syria except limited ops killing ISIS!  Internal conflicts between clans that have been going on for 3000 years should not be our concern.

It is my understanding that Turkey wants a 30 mile buffer along the Syrian border for defending against PKK attacks.  Seems reasonable. 

I have done my time in the alert hangars at Incirlik and I don't like nor trust the Turks, however in this case the Turks have the right to protect their people against terrorist attacks. 

Our CIC has to make the tough decisions and those Green Berets will follow their orders.  I would guess that we got something from the Turks in return for the "retreat".

I would also assume the Kurds probably have the means and funding for acquiring shoulder-fired weapons against any Turk air incursion be it a helicopter or fixed wing outside of this buffer zone.
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Offline txradioguy

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Relocating 50 Green Berets is not retreat! We are not an invading country and we should not be in Syria except limited ops killing ISIS!  Internal conflicts between clans that have been going on for 3000 years should not be our concern.

We pulled troops back on purpose with an enemy of one of our alleis ready to attack.  That's a retreat.

Again with the "400 year talking point".  FOr the 1,000th time this is NOT about that.  It's about abandoning a loyal ally people who have fought beside us in the war on terrorism since the beginning... and we're hanging them out to dry...again....just like Obama did.

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It is my understanding that Turkey wants a 30 mile buffer along the Syrian border for defending against PKK attacks.  Seems reasonable.


If they only want a buffer...then why invade Syria and attack and kill civilians?  You want a buffer the diplomats from Erdogan and Assad's governments work that out.

Reasonable isn't attack civilian targets.

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I have done my time in the alert hangars at Incirlik and I don't like nor trust the Turks, however in this case the Turks have the right to protect their people against terrorist attacks.


What terrorist attacks?  Erdogan and his band of facist thugs have been known to lie about attacks a coups in order to jail...execute and/or silence those opposed to his regime.

Haveing been there when Patriots from my unit were opearating in Turkey I neither trust nor like the Turks either...and now is not the time to give them the benefit of the doubt.

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Our CIC has to make the tough decisions and those Green Berets will follow their orders.  I would guess that we got something from the Turks in return for the "retreat".

He got squat in return.  They heard his empty threat about destrying their economy...smiled and invaded Syria anyway.  IF anything he got a middle finger from Erdogan.

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I would also assume the Kurds probably have the means and funding for acquiring shoulder-fired weapons against any Turk air incursion be it a helicopter or fixed wing outside of this buffer zone.

They ahve only what we can/will arm them with.  Who knows if we'll do that now that we've got another kook by the last name of Paul advising Trump on foreign policy.
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Offline txradioguy

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That argument might fly if we were more discriminatory about who and when we offer support.  We can't be everything to everyone, as hard as we try.

When you compare us to Russia or China we are very discriminatory who we help.  The if we weren't then every third world sh*t hold country would be filled with M-16's and LAWS rockets instead of AK-47's and RPG-7 launchers.

Quote
Again, it makes sense to form temporary alliances to accomplish specific purposes.  That does not shackle us to our provisional allies for the rest of time.

Who exactly do you deem to be a privisional ally?  Would England or Germany fall into that category? 

And you do realize that some of these so called "provisional" allies allow us ease of access into places we might ahve to force our way into otherwise?

They provide intel and human intelligence assets that we woudn't otherwise have?  This is why you don't abandon them when it's politically expedient.

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Offline libertybele

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@txradioguy

It is the Kurds holding the thousands of ISIS prisoners.  Wipe out the Kurd military and ISIS is loose again.

Exactly right.  Trump has called Turkey assault on Syria a 'bad idea as at least 7 civilians have been reported dead.  What the heck did Trump think was going to happen??  His comment makes absolutely no sense as he was the one that denied Syria air support!!!  He's saying it was a bad idea ... so what?  What is he willing to do about it?  Nothing.  He is the one that destabilized the area.
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Offline Sanguine

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When you compare us to Russia or China we are very discriminatory who we help.  The if we weren't then every third world sh*t hold country would be filled with M-16's and LAWS rockets instead of AK-47's and RPG-7 launchers.

Not sure what you're getting at here.   Who is making that comparison?

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Who exactly do you deem to be a privisional ally?  Would England or Germany fall into that category? 

And you do realize that some of these so called "provisional" allies allow us ease of access into places we might ahve to force our way into otherwise?

They provide intel and human intelligence assets that we woudn't otherwise have?  This is why you don't abandon them when it's politically expedient.

Yes, of course there should be some benefit to an alliance.  Since we're talking about Syria, they fall into the provisional category. 
« Last Edit: October 09, 2019, 06:07:11 PM by Sanguine »
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Offline txradioguy

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Not sure what you're getting at here.   Who is making that comparison?

Yes, of course there should be some benefit to an alliance.  Since we're talking about Syria, they fall into the provisional category.

You were saying we should be more discriminatory in who we help.  I say that we are...unlike other influential countries in the world like China and Russia who interfere anywhere and everywhere they can in the world through arms sales and other types of direct suport in unstable regions of the world.

Syria isn't an ally....never have been never will be.  Th Kurds are an ally.
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Offline Sanguine

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You were saying we should be more discriminatory in who we help.  I say that we are...unlike other influential countries in the world like China and Russia who interfere anywhere and everywhere they can in the world through arms sales and other types of direct suport in unstable regions of the world.

Syria isn't an ally....never have been never will be.  Th Kurds are an ally.

No.  The Syrian Kurds are NOT our ally.  They are a communist group of bad guys with whom we worked for a time to accomplish a specific purpose. 
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Offline txradioguy

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No.  The Syrian Kurds are NOT our ally.  They are a communist group of bad guys with whom we worked for a time to accomplish a specific purpose.

They are an ethnic group spread across several countries in Western Asia.

There's no such thing as "Syrian Kurds"


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“The Kurds are as close to Western thinking in the Middle East as anyone,” said the longtime member of Special Forces. “It’s a shame. We are just watching. It’s horrible.”

“This is not helping the ISIS fight," the military source said.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/turkey-syria-invasion-special-forces-soldier-kurds
« Last Edit: October 09, 2019, 09:08:20 PM by txradioguy »
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Offline Sanguine

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They are an ethnic group spread across several countries in Western Asia.

There's no such thing as "Syrian Kurds"

Don't split hairs.  They are Kurds in Syria, and that particular group of Kurds are not good guys. 
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Offline txradioguy

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Don't split hairs.  They are Kurds in Syria, and that particular group of Kurds are not good guys.

Splitting hairs is trying to claim "Syrian Kurds" are not an ally.  I'm being factually and historically accurate.

There are no such thing as Syrian Kurds.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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Offline Sanguine

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Splitting hairs is trying to claim "Syrian Kurds" are not an ally.  I'm being factually and historically accurate.

There are no such thing as Syrian Kurds.

OK, whatever.  We're done here.
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Offline bigheadfred

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The current Kurd/Iranian conflict began in 1918. It has been going on now for 101 years.

Offline TomSea

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Our military would not readily hang out with the Syrian Kurds or Kurds in Syria if they were bad guys.

Now, one can check them out, yes, some elements use what look to be Communist symbols and indeed, red and black, the colors of antifa but that is some group, it isn't all of them.

EC, God bless him was a big Kurd fan and could and somewhat did tell us a lot.

Every group over there, by our standards are going to have some sort of problem, everyone except maybe some Westerners who are in that conflict.

Yes, the YPG or PKK use terms like revolution, but they seem to be good enough for our military, for General Votel, so, I'd let that go, really. For Gen. Mattis too.

Some of the piling on of the Kurds now that I see in the media, no one here, in the media seems very uninformed, and yes, that Jack Prosobiec and others seemed to have been in on it today.

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Offline txradioguy

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Our military would not readily hang out with the Syrian Kurds or Kurds in Syria if they were bad guys.

Now, one can check them out, yes, some elements use what look to be Communist symbols and indeed, red and black, the colors of antifa but that is some group, it isn't all of them.

EC, God bless him was a big Kurd fan and could and somewhat did tell us a lot.

Every group over there, by our standards are going to have some sort of problem, everyone except maybe some Westerners who are in that conflict.

Yes, the YPG or PKK use terms like revolution, but they seem to be good enough for our military, for General Votel, so, I'd let that go, really. For Gen. Mattis too.

Some of the piling on of the Kurds now that I see in the media, no one here, in the media seems very uninformed, and yes, that Jack Prosobiec and others seemed to have been in on it today.

IMHO if the U.S. soldiers on the ground working with them 24/7/365 trusted them...that's all the verification I need that they aren't the bad guys.
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Offline Sanguine

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Our military would not readily hang out with the Syrian Kurds or Kurds in Syria if they were bad guys.

Now, one can check them out, yes, some elements use what look to be Communist symbols and indeed, red and black, the colors of antifa but that is some group, it isn't all of them.

EC, God bless him was a big Kurd fan and could and somewhat did tell us a lot.

Every group over there, by our standards are going to have some sort of problem, everyone except maybe some Westerners who are in that conflict.

Yes, the YPG or PKK use terms like revolution, but they seem to be good enough for our military, for General Votel, so, I'd let that go, really. For Gen. Mattis too.

Some of the piling on of the Kurds now that I see in the media, no one here, in the media seems very uninformed, and yes, that Jack Prosobiec and others seemed to have been in on it today.

Here you go, Tom:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdistan_Workers'_Party
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Offline txradioguy

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You don't know that they do.

Oh?  Might wanna think about that answer...just sayin.
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Offline edpc

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”Now, the Kurds are fighting for their land, just so you understand, they are fighting for their land. And as somebody wrote in a very, very powerful article today, they didn’t help us in the Second World War, they didn’t help us with Normandy as an example, they mentioned the names of different battles, but they’re there to help us with their land, and that’s a different thing. In addition to that, we have spent tremendous amounts of money in helping the Kurds,” Trump continued. “With all of that being said, we like the Kurds.”

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-withdrawal-explanation-syria-kurds-isis-europe-215740775.html
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline txradioguy

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”Now, the Kurds are fighting for their land, just so you understand, they are fighting for their land. And as somebody wrote in a very, very powerful article today, they didn’t help us in the Second World War, they didn’t help us with Normandy as an example, they mentioned the names of different battles, but they’re there to help us with their land, and that’s a different thing. In addition to that, we have spent tremendous amounts of money in helping the Kurds,” Trump continued. “With all of that being said, we like the Kurds.”

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-withdrawal-explanation-syria-kurds-isis-europe-215740775.html

The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

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Offline TomSea

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Here you go, Tom:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdistan_Workers'_Party

Islamic extremism is pretty bad, to me, ISIS have been somewhat like the Nazis.

Of course, we teamed up with Stalin to fight Hitler and I'm not sure the Kurds are as bad as Communists. Trump said the Kurds "died for us", so, I'm certainly not using that statement as a stand alone.

Apparently, some Kurds have even fought against Israel but overall, Israel is supportive of their struggle.

I'm on the phone, but the Kurdish question website deals with some of this too.
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Offline DCPatriot

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Splitting hairs is trying to claim "Syrian Kurds" are not an ally.  I'm being factually and historically accurate.

There are no such thing as Syrian Kurds.

As already posted, @txradioguy , the Kurds that have been living in and on Syrian land for generations are "Syrian Kurds".

We understand they want their own autonomy and region carved out for them, but they've been somebody else's 'Terrorist' for 101 years and counting.

While it was convenient for both sides, we allied with them.  BFD! 

Indiana Ave, Kentucky Ave, and St. James for Park Place.  We both did well.

The Kurds just landed on Park Place with a hotel.

Whose son or brother should be the next one to lose a limb...be disfigured..or be killed for our 'allies' here?

Korea, Viet Nam, Lebanon, Kuwait, Iraq, Afghanistan and now Syria.   All in my lifetime.   For what?  For whom?
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Offline Sanguine

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Oh?  Might wanna think about that answer...just sayin.

I did.  And, I'm staying with it.
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