Author Topic: 7 in 10 say US health care system has 'major problems' or is in a 'state of crisis'  (Read 9448 times)

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Offline Smokin Joe

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Online Hoodat

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That was just tried - It TRIPLED the cost at best, and left everyone with a giant deductible, making it good only as catastrophic care.

And because the deductible is cumulative, even a 10k deductible is not the truth, because if you have a wife and two kids, you have to reach the end of ALL the cumulative deductibles before you get a friggin bandaid.

That is the cost of your socialist dream.

If you want good healthcare cheap, go the other way. Ban insurance and make the whole thing cash on the barrelhead and watch the prices plummet.

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Offline ConstitutionRose

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How cost prohibitive healthcare is or isn't is an important part of the equation when determining how good healthcare is in my opinion. The average person in Europe gets similar quality healthcare without having to worry about going bankrupt. Healthcare is only better in the states if you're wealthy and can afford the best doctors and procedures.

My mother was a Brit.  Married my father and became a grateful US citizen.  Tons of cousins in Great Britain.  The difference between the care my mother received and the care her cousins received was night and day.  Many of the meds and procedures routinely available in the US were not available to her British family members.  My SIL is originally from Canada.  She is a healthcare professional.  Guess what she does when her parents have needed surgery or treatment for a serious illness.  She brings them to the US.    She told me that doctors are unavailable from Halloween on because they have made all the money they are allowed to make so they essentially close up shop.  My church us always providing housing and other help for Canadians to come here for cancer and heart treatment.

The free market has both good and bad points, but it has given us excellent healthcare for the most part.  The more government intrudes, the lower the quality of care. 
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Offline txradioguy

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I see that Dexter didn't learn his lesson on this bullsh*t notion of free healthcare for all the first or second go around.

Some people are just a glutton for punishment.
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Offline Dexter

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Why don't you move to Venezuela Dexter? Than you can live first in country that followed your plan, you'll be in heaven and can point at all those over taxed people that are still filthy rich....................oh wait, no you won't be able to will you.

I don't want private healthcare to go away, and it wouldn't. American doctors aren't going to stop being brilliant if we introduce a public option. The best of the best will go private and do work for people that can afford that sort of thing. I am not a socialist because universal healthcare is not socialism. Europe is not socialist. Allowing the government to completely seize the private sector is insane. That's socialism and I will never support that.
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Offline LMAO

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I see that Dexter didn't learn his lesson on this bullsh*t notion of free healthcare for all the first or second go around.

Some people are just a glutton for punishment.

When someone truly and deeply believes in something, it’s hard to give that up. If you’ve noticed he never answers any of the questions or addresses any of the issues that will pop up and most of his responses are more based along the lines of what he hopes and believes will happen versus what really happens

We had a doctor that came to our hospital for a while that was from Switzerland and she thinks that Americans “over treat” people. There tends to be more rationing of healthcare in government run systems simply because there’s a limited supply of healthcare dollars and healthcare professionals. But in some ways, that doctor was right. I have seen 90-year-old patients who should’ve died five times over being given healthcare with the same poor outcomes.

 Where are you going to get all the doctors and hospitals and nurses and even the money to give  all 
326 million Americans so-called free healthcare when even Medicare is reeling back a lot of what it is  willing to pay

There’s too many of us living longer with too few to pay  and that gap widens as time goes on. That’s why you should never be on Medicare without supplemental private insurance,
« Last Edit: January 15, 2019, 03:51:18 pm by LMAO »
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Offline Dexter

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Get the government out and the market will solve the problem.

I'm not okay with poor Americans dying because they can't afford treatment that they need. That will happen more without help from the government.
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I don't want private healthcare to go away, and it wouldn't.

By its very definition, 'single payer' means that private health care goes away.
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Offline skeeter

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I'm not okay with poor Americans dying because they can't afford treatment that they need. That will happen more without help from the government.

Americans were dying for lack of treatment before ACA was passed? I missed that in the news.

Offline Dexter

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By its very definition, 'single payer' means that private health care goes away.

No, it means that there is a public option that everybody has access to. People with a lot of money in Europe can still get private healthcare.
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Online GtHawk

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I don't want private healthcare to go away, and it wouldn't. American doctors aren't going to stop being brilliant if we introduce a public option. The best of the best will go private and do work for people that can afford that sort of thing. I am not a socialist because universal healthcare is not socialism. Europe is not socialist. Allowing the government to completely seize the private sector is insane. That's socialism and I will never support that.
You haven't a clue. There are so many excellent experienced physicians that have been driven out of not only private practice, but from practicing the art period from just the start of your socialized ideal........that monster called obamacare. Thousands upon thousands of rural Americans were forced to travel sometimes a hundred miles or more or do without because the small practices and clinics they used were forced to close because they couldn't afford to comply with asinine obamacare requirements. My wife is an insurance biller with clients in several different medical fields and I can tell you with assurance that you are talking out of your backside on this one.

And Europe is not socialist?

Online Hoodat

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No, it means that there is a public option that everybody has access to. People with a lot of money in Europe can still get private healthcare.

That's not 'single payer'.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

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"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

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Online GtHawk

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I'm not okay with poor Americans dying because they can't afford treatment that they need. That will happen more without help from the government.
You are aware that people cannot be denied medical care, right........RIGHT? Why do you think so many illegals go to the ER? 9999hair out0000

Online Hoodat

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I'm not okay with poor Americans dying because they can't afford treatment that they need. That will happen more without help from the government.

Are you okay with Canadians and Europeans dying because the treatments they need have not been made available to them by their governments?
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline txradioguy

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I'm not okay with poor Americans dying because they can't afford treatment that they need. That will happen more without help from the government.

No one in this country can be denied treatment at a hospital...regardless of their ability to pay.  It's a ready federal law.

You're looking in the wrong place for the solution.  You've been brainwashed into thinking the Government is the answer for everything from womb to tomb.

It's not.

Do you know what the nine scariest words in the english language are?
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Offline txradioguy

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No, it means that there is a public option that everybody has access to. People with a lot of money in Europe can still get private healthcare.

I'm not sure whether you're that naive or that clueless when you spout these fortune cookie statements.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

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Offline Dexter

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No one in this country can be denied treatment at a hospital...regardless of their ability to pay.  It's a ready federal law.

Poor people don't get the preventative care they need. If they could go to the doctor more often a lot of medical emergencies would be avoided entirely. That would save a lot of money.
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Online Hoodat

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People with money in Canada can still get private health care by traveling to the US.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline LMAO

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You haven't a clue. There are so many excellent experienced physicians that have been driven out of not only private practice, but from practicing the art period from just the start of your socialized ideal........that monster called obamacare. Thousands upon thousands of rural Americans were forced to travel sometimes a hundred miles or more or do without because the small practices and clinics they used were forced to close because they couldn't afford to comply with asinine obamacare requirements. My wife is an insurance biller with clients in several different medical fields and I can tell you with assurance that you are talking out of your backside on this one.

And Europe is not socialist?


First your last sentence.  A lot of European countries  are what’s called “social democracy” states and not true socialist states.  They tend to have very generous welfare programs and they’re going to find more and more that it’s going to be expensive for them also in the future.  Sweden tried true socialism in the 1970s and it predictably failed

But the rest of what you said has a lot of truth to it. I know from experience.  Let’s use the proposed Medicare for all as an example since there’s at least a bill floating around that we can chew on. A lot of doctors are reluctant to see both Medicaid and all Medicare patients. I asked our medical director this a few years ago and they said the reason why they’re more likely to see Medicare patients is because many Medicare patients also have private insurance. Medicare for all would dump that and pay doctors and hospitals the current Medicare rate. Well, human nature being predictable, what kind of incentive would there be for people to go into the medical field? Right now, Medicare for all seems to have a majority support. I am pretty confident that, as more details and issues come forth regarding that, that support will drop. We saw the same phenomenon with Hillary care in the 1990s. And supporters of Medicare for all are pretty vague on how it’s going to be paid for. That, or they come up with math that  has no basis in reality

You just can’t simply answer these problems and issues with “but Sweden but Sweden” and “I think” and  “I believe.”

The current entitlement programs we have now are going to have to face cuts going forward. For now, the political will isn’t there to do it. From a politician’s viewpoint, that’s understandable. But investors will probably at some point have the final word on it anyways

 These are complex issues. Nobody was supposed to live as long as they are when many of these programs were started. How do you provide healthcare for people but at the same time don’t risk the quality of healthcare or medical innovation? How do you do it without going further into debt and risking  the  US economy?


« Last Edit: January 15, 2019, 04:34:33 pm by LMAO »
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Offline Bigun

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Poor people don't get the preventative care they need. If they could go to the doctor more often a lot of medical emergencies would be avoided entirely. That would save a lot of money.

As usual, you are full of chit! 

Our healthcare system is indeed in trouble because the GUBERMENT can't keep it's filty hands off of it and let the free market work its magic!

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"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
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Online Hoodat

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Poor people don't get the preventative care they need.

That's quite a telling admission since poor people are already utilizing government health care in the form of Medicaid.  Basically, you are arguing that Medicaid doesn't work.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

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"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

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Offline Dexter

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Are you okay with Canadians and Europeans dying because the treatments they need have not been made available to them by their governments?

There are private options in Canada too. Anybody that has enough money will do that instead. Rand Paul is actually going there for a surgery, which is kind of ironic I think. For people that are truly poor the public option is better than the private option they can't afford.
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Offline Dexter

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And Europe is not socialist? [/size]

Go ask McDonald's if they think Europe is capitalist or not.
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Offline LMAO

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That's quite a telling admission since poor people are already utilizing government health care in the form of Medicaid.  Basically, you are arguing that Medicaid doesn't work.

In the early days of my career, I did a stint in an emergency room in a hospital in Rural Wisconsin.  We would have people come in who were on BadgerCare come in for things like Tylenol and cough syrup because, if they got a prescription from the doctor, BadgerCare would pay for it. It wasn’t long when the report came out saying that BadgerCare was facing insolvency

Good intentions never will beat economics or math
I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them.

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Online Hoodat

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There are private options in Canada too.

Private options that are strictly regulated by government.  Private options with price controls.  Private options which when taken translate to forfeiture of the Canadian system.  In other words, the Canadian government has put in place substantial road blocks that strongly discourage the development of 'private' options.

Anybody that has enough money will do that instead.

Anybody with money that uses their own money is blocked from using the national system that they already paid for.  Go figure.  However, they can keep their access to the Canadian system by utilizing US doctors and hospitals instead for their private care.  Which is why the hospital parking lots in border cities like Seattle, Detroit, and Buffalo are filled with Canadian plates.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-