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Offline mystery-ak

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Senate immigration talks fall apart
« on: January 10, 2019, 03:53:42 PM »
Senate immigration talks fall apart
By Jordain Carney - 01/10/19 03:18 PM EST

A last-ditch effort by a group of Senate Republicans to reach a deal to end the partial government shutdown and clinch a long-stalled immigration deal quickly unraveled on Thursday.

Senators said their talks were basically dead, underscoring the uphill climb any potential agreement has amid the entrenched border fight.

“I think we're stuck. I just don't see a pathway forward,” Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) told reporters. “I don't know who to talk to and I don't know what else to do.”

Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine) after a closed-door Senate GOP lunch said the talks had “run into some difficulties,” and blamed intransigence on the part of President Trump and Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.).

“It's very difficult when we're dealing with people who do not want to budge at all in their positions, and that's the president and Speaker Pelosi,” Collins said. “They're each very dug in on their position, and that's made this very difficult.”

Trump stormed out of a meeting at the White House on Wednesday with Pelosi and other congressional leaders after the Speaker said she would not agree to provide money for his wall on the Mexican border if the government were reopened.

Collins and Graham are part of a group of senators who have been in talks about a deal that would include border wall funding and a deal for “Dreamers” as a way to break the shutdown stalemate, which is currently on its 20th day.

The setback comes less than 24 hours after the group of senators — which included Collins, Graham and Sens. Thom Tillis (R-N.C.), Rob Portman (R-Ohio) and Lamar Alexander (R-Tenn.) — met with White House adviser Jared Kushner and Sen. Richard Shelby (R-Ala.), the Appropriations Committee chairman.

The group of moderate senators conducted more shuttle diplomacy earlier Thursday as they tried to get buy-in for their agreement.

The group met with Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) and then Vice President Pence at the Capitol on Thursday.

But Pence appeared to take an agreement on the Obama-era Deferred Action For Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program off the table until the administration gets a final court ruling.

The administration announced in 2017 that it was ending the program, which allows certain immigrants who do not have legal status to stay to work and go to school in the United States.

“We feel confident the Supreme Court will find DACA to have been unconstitutional. At that time, he believes there will be an opportunity for us not only address the issue affecting the Dreamers, but also a range of immigration issues,” Pence told reporters during a briefing at the Capitol.

The shutdown stalemate comes as Trump has demanded more than $5 billion for the border wall and is taking a trip to the southern border on Thursday to try to build public support for his position.

Democrats have pointed to $1.3 billion as their cap in any talks. House Democrats passed a package last week that would reopen the roughly quarter of the government impacted by the shutdown, but it was blocked in the Senate on Thursday.

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/424792-senate-immigration-talks-fall-apart
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Offline Ghost Bear

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Re: Senate immigration talks fall apart
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2019, 04:26:02 PM »
Good.
The more people I meet, the more convinced I am that I should be a hermit living in a cabin in a deep forest.

Offline Once-Ler

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Re: Senate immigration talks fall apart
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2019, 04:55:12 PM »
Quote
A last-ditch effort by a group of Senate Republicans

The rats seem uninterested in ending the shutdown.  I believe they think the shutdown hurts Trump more than rats.
“If we had confidence the president clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so.” - Robert Mueller

Online Jazzhead

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Re: Senate immigration talks fall apart
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2019, 05:06:13 PM »
The rats seem uninterested in ending the shutdown.  I believe they think the shutdown hurts Trump more than rats.

It hurts federal workers more than it does either Trump or the Democrats.   It hurts my neighbors counting on their tax refunds more than it does either Trump or the Democrats.   It hurts storeowners needing small business loans more than it does either Trump or the Democrats.   It hurts travelers stuck in long, understaffed TSA lines more than it does either Trump or the Democrats. 

Politicians using ordinary folks as pawns in a pissing contest.   Hard to believe we're supposed to be the greatest country in the world.   
"He was born poor, died rich, and never hurt anyone along the way"

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Offline libertybele

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Re: Senate immigration talks fall apart
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2019, 05:49:52 PM »
It hurts federal workers more than it does either Trump or the Democrats.   It hurts my neighbors counting on their tax refunds more than it does either Trump or the Democrats.   It hurts storeowners needing small business loans more than it does either Trump or the Democrats.   It hurts travelers stuck in long, understaffed TSA lines more than it does either Trump or the Democrats. 

Politicians using ordinary folks as pawns in a pissing contest.   Hard to believe we're supposed to be the greatest country in the world.   

Jazz ... everyone suffers ...but at some point in time we have to ALL make a decision.  Do we want our sovereignty or do we want to be another Europe?
"I believe in the United States of America as a Government of the people, by the people, for the people; whose just powers are derived from the consent of the governed; a democracy in a republic; a sovereign nation of many sovereign states; a perfect union one and inseparable; established upon those principles of freedom, equality, justice and humanity for which American patriots sacrificed their lives and fortunes. I therefore believe it is my duty to my country to love it; to support its Constitution; to obey it laws; to respect its flag; and to defend it against all enemies." -William Page

Offline Fishrrman

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Re: Senate immigration talks fall apart
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2019, 09:04:51 PM »
No "deals".
They are sellouts to the democrat-communists.

I hope that Mr. Trump realizes this, as well.
His chances for re-election depend upon it.
But more importantly, the future of the country does, as well.

Offline The Ghost

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Re: Senate immigration talks fall apart
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2019, 09:06:14 PM »
The rats seem uninterested in ending the shutdown.  I believe they think the shutdown hurts Trump more than rats.

Of course you would think that.
"The disdain of a small minority should never, absent legitimate grievance, take precedence over the majority."

Offline massadvj

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Re: Senate immigration talks fall apart
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2019, 09:13:55 PM »
It hurts federal workers more than it does either Trump or the Democrats.   It hurts my neighbors counting on their tax refunds more than it does either Trump or the Democrats.   It hurts storeowners needing small business loans more than it does either Trump or the Democrats.   It hurts travelers stuck in long, understaffed TSA lines more than it does either Trump or the Democrats. 

Politicians using ordinary folks as pawns in a pissing contest.   Hard to believe we're supposed to be the greatest country in the world.   

I can deal with someone who makes a good, well-reasoned argument, but I hate it when people get their facts wrong:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2019/01/08/government-shutdown-tax-refunds-filing-starts-jan-29/2511995002/
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Online TomSea

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Re: Senate immigration talks fall apart
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2019, 09:26:35 PM »
It hurts a lot of other people, we hear about the murder, poor officer Singh or Mr. Corcoran but there are many other victims, robberies, traffic accidents, fentanyl deaths. It's hard to think the Democrats lack compassion over these people.
"Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it" --Ronald Reagan

Offline Emjay

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Re: Senate immigration talks fall apart
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2019, 10:14:00 PM »
The rats seem uninterested in ending the shutdown.  I believe they think the shutdown hurts Trump more than rats.

They are relying on the public getting impatient with the shutdown and blaming it entirely on Trump.

I hope they are wrong because I get the feeling the Republicans are moving a lot more strongly in support of Trump on this issue and it's becoming pretty obvious that the Pelosi/Schumer duo is mainly interested in thwarting Trump.

They are throwing their whole weight behind this because if Trump wins on this issue, they are pretty much sunk and they know it.
Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain.

Offline Emjay

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Re: Senate immigration talks fall apart
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2019, 10:15:52 PM »
It hurts federal workers more than it does either Trump or the Democrats.   It hurts my neighbors counting on their tax refunds more than it does either Trump or the Democrats.   It hurts storeowners needing small business loans more than it does either Trump or the Democrats.   It hurts travelers stuck in long, understaffed TSA lines more than it does either Trump or the Democrats. 

Politicians using ordinary folks as pawns in a pissing contest.   Hard to believe we're supposed to be the greatest country in the world.   

Your neighbors are making more money than the average worker in the U.S.  And that money is assured of coming when this is settled.

Stop being a cry baby.
Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain.

Online truth_seeker

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Re: Senate immigration talks fall apart
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2019, 11:00:12 PM »
Federal Employees Earn 50% More Than The Private Workforce

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/moneytips/federal-employees-earn-50_b_8855508.html


Those making the biggest sacrifice are private sectr folks, earning FAR less, with less job secirity, and lower benefits.




"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

avatar=William F. Cody

Offline Once-Ler

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Re: Senate immigration talks fall apart
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2019, 12:42:22 AM »
Of course you would think that.
When you sober up, or find yourself capable, tell me why you don't think that.
“If we had confidence the president clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so.” - Robert Mueller

Online Jazzhead

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Re: Senate immigration talks fall apart
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2019, 08:42:45 AM »
I can deal with someone who makes a good, well-reasoned argument, but I hate it when people get their facts wrong:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2019/01/08/government-shutdown-tax-refunds-filing-starts-jan-29/2511995002/

Thanks for that information,  @massadvj     This points out a dramatic difference between Trump and Obama and the Democrats.   When Obama shut down the government in 2013,  he deliberately made it as painful as possible for ordinary Americans,  in the name of applying political pressure on the Republicans.   Food stamps, for example were immediately halted.   Trump, by contrast, has tasked his government to make the shutdown as painless as possible,  taking advantage of a loophole to permit food stamps to continue at least until February

 And I bet most food stamp recipients vote Democrat!   Still, Trump doesn't want to see them screwed.    Pelosi does.   

The pain of a shutdown is inevitable, but a President can choose, or not choose, how tough to make things for folks.   Trump's the one using the word compromise - the Dems won't utter it.  Trump's the one seeking ways, as you point out,  to get working people their tax refunds, while the Dems are no doubt wailing that such actions are unlawful.   The Dems want you to suffer, the President wants a fair deal.   
"He was born poor, died rich, and never hurt anyone along the way"

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Offline RetBobbyMI

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Re: Senate immigration talks fall apart
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2019, 09:24:47 AM »
Jazz ... everyone suffers ...but at some point in time we have to ALL make a decision.  Do we want our sovereignty or do we want to be another Europe?
Great point and well stated!
"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid."  -- John Wayne
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Offline massadvj

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Re: Senate immigration talks fall apart
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2019, 10:00:37 AM »
Personally, I am not all that enamored with "The Wall," but I have no problem shutting down a good portion of a government that gobbles up nearly 40 percent of GDP and overspends its revenues by $1 trillion.  I just wish the shutdown could be permanent.  Give the national parks back to the states. Privatize the TSA.  Reform all entitlements. This government is for all intents and purposes bankrupt, and that is the REAL national emergency.  Yet neither Trump, nor the Dims, nor the American people seem worried one wit about that. 
"She only coughs when she lies."

Offline The Ghost

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Re: Senate immigration talks fall apart
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2019, 11:17:03 AM »
If there was a little-known codicil in the Faber College constitution which gives the dean unlimited power to preserve order in time of campus emergency then I don't see why the POTUS cannot do the same right here, right now.
"The disdain of a small minority should never, absent legitimate grievance, take precedence over the majority."

Offline massadvj

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Re: Senate immigration talks fall apart
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2019, 11:28:27 AM »
If there was a little-known codicil in the Faber College constitution which gives the dean unlimited power to preserve order in time of campus emergency then I don't see why the POTUS cannot do the same right here, right now.

The trouble is that what can be done with executive order can be undone with executive order.  Trump is better off keeping the leviathan shut down and waiting for congressional approval.  The first and most important constituency of Democrats is public employees.  Disempowering them can only be good for us, and for the cause of freedom.
"She only coughs when she lies."

Offline Fishrrman

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Re: Senate immigration talks fall apart
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2019, 08:58:36 PM »
Title:
"Senate immigration talks fall apart"

That's a GOOD thing.
I for one hope they can never "put 'em back together"...

Online IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Senate immigration talks fall apart
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2019, 09:52:42 PM »
Title should read  Senate illegal immigration talks fall apart

That is what DACA is, an attempt to make known felons into legal citizens.
Yearning to stay free takes place in many ways at many different times, whether by withstanding planes or bayonets


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