Author Topic: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.  (Read 3389 times)

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Online edpc

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Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2019, 03:17:16 PM »
You couldn't be more wrong.

The 1976 National Emergencies Act does provide a mechanism to stop abuse of this power. Congress can rebuke (nullify) the declaration with a simple majority vote.

It's not like the Rats haven't known about this law. obama used it numerous times.


We currently have a split Congress, so how am I wrong? Even if they had enough Senators to defect, the motion still requires Trump’s signature, which he won’t provide. They don’t have the veto override numbers. If they did, they’d just end the shutdown.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2019, 03:32:03 PM by edpc »
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline bilo

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Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2019, 03:17:21 PM »
Except the SCOTUS could always rule against him.  I don't ever count on Roberts and Ginsburg is still alive.

You're right, that's why even after declaring a national emergency Trump should continue keeping the govt. partially shut down.
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Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2019, 05:06:40 PM »
The more people I meet, the more convinced I am that I should be a hermit living in a cabin in a deep forest.

Online libertybele

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Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2019, 05:47:43 PM »

We currently have a split Congress, so how am I wrong? Even if they had enough Senators to defect, the motion still requires Trump’s signature, which he won’t provide. They don’t have the veto override numbers. If they did, they’d just end the shutdown.

Ok ... in the same light though, if I'm understanding what you're saying next time DEMS are in office, all they have to do is continuously declare a National emergency for everything ... and there would be no stopping them. 

In essence then, what we would have at the end of the day is a dictatorship.
"I believe in the United States of America as a Government of the people, by the people, for the people; whose just powers are derived from the consent of the governed; a democracy in a republic; a sovereign nation of many sovereign states; a perfect union one and inseparable; established upon those principles of freedom, equality, justice and humanity for which American patriots sacrificed their lives and fortunes. I therefore believe it is my duty to my country to love it; to support its Constitution; to obey it laws; to respect its flag; and to defend it against all enemies." -William Page

Online edpc

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Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2019, 06:13:23 PM »
Ok.....in the same light though, if I'm understanding what you're saying next time DEMS are in office, all they have to do is continuously declare a National emergency for everything ... and there would be no stopping them. 

In essence then, what we would have at the end of the day is a dictatorship.



Well, I won’t go as far to say they’d have endless declarations. However, they’d probably attempt it on a couple pet issues, such as guns or healthcare. The only things in the way are 2/3 of Congress opposing it (unlikely) or SCOTUS ruling it unconstitutional (toss up).
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline Victoria33

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Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
« Reply #30 on: January 10, 2019, 06:27:06 PM »
Ok ... in the same light though, if I'm understanding what you're saying next time DEMS are in office, all they have to do is continuously declare a National emergency for everything ... and there would be no stopping them. 
In essence then, what we would have at the end of the day is a dictatorship.
@libertybele

Yes, a dictatorship which is what Trump wants as he believes only he can run the country with no one's help.
I think what Lindsay Graham said today, (and don't dump on Graham as he is a Senator with following), which was like this, "I see no way out of this."  He looked downcast, sad, and was admitting he could do nothing to get us out of this stalemate.  What will Trump do?  Someone here said he would announce the National Emergency Declaration at the State of the Union speech later this month.  Trump would have millions watching that speech and he would be the "King of The Hill" dictating what "His" country is going to do.  I agree with Graham, this is sad our government workers do not get paid so Trump can rule the country.
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Online libertybele

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Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
« Reply #31 on: January 10, 2019, 07:06:01 PM »
@libertybele

Yes, a dictatorship which is what Trump wants as he believes only he can run the country with no one's help.
I think what Lindsay Graham said today, (and don't dump on Graham as he is a Senator with following), which was like this, "I see no way out of this."  He looked downcast, sad, and was admitting he could do nothing to get us out of this stalemate.  What will Trump do?  Someone here said he would announce the National Emergency Declaration at the State of the Union speech later this month.  Trump would have millions watching that speech and he would be the "King of The Hill" dictating what "His" country is going to do.  I agree with Graham, this is sad our government workers do not get paid so Trump can rule the country.

I certainly can understand your viewpoint.  Take into consideration the crisis at the border; and there IS and has been a crisis at the border for some time.  We cannot continue to allow millions to enter this country;especially when among them are terrorists and gang members and those that do harm to our citizenry.

We recently had a mob caravan of appx. 10,000 pounding on our back door.  It was recently announced that another caravan even larger is on its way. 

So President Trump wants funding for a physical barrier.  The DEMS who have publicly announced support for a border wall in the past, now have back pedaled and refuse to give him his funding.

What is he supposed to do?  Especially when this is the very issue that won him the presidency.  Those people want a wall.  As President it is his job and he took and oath to defend this country.  In 2006 BOTH Houses voted for the Secure Fence Act; 700 miles of fence were built ... we've been waiting an awfully long time for the rest of the fence to be funded.

Also keep in mind, that he didn't immediately state that he's going to declare a National Emergency; he made other attempts to no avail.  He PROMISED those that voted for him a wall.  We have a crisis at the border.  Again, what is he supposed to do?  Say, sorry, America, Chuck and Nancy don't want a wall, so we need to pander to them??

Personally, I don't think so.

"I believe in the United States of America as a Government of the people, by the people, for the people; whose just powers are derived from the consent of the governed; a democracy in a republic; a sovereign nation of many sovereign states; a perfect union one and inseparable; established upon those principles of freedom, equality, justice and humanity for which American patriots sacrificed their lives and fortunes. I therefore believe it is my duty to my country to love it; to support its Constitution; to obey it laws; to respect its flag; and to defend it against all enemies." -William Page

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
« Reply #32 on: January 10, 2019, 07:19:48 PM »
Quote
Respectfully, this is alarmist bullshit. Normalizing the status of the "Dreamers" is not amnesty,

@Jazzhead

HTH do you figure that?  If they are not illegal aliens,why are they called Dreamers?

   
Quote
and no, it won't cause the Republic to fall.
 

A pebble here,a pebble there,and pretty soon you have broken the camel's back.

Quote
It will, perhaps, get us funding to construct an effective physical barrier at the border.   

Yeah,causen the Dims are such REASONABLE creatures,huh?
Quote
But I guess that's not what's important to you.   *****rollingeyes*****

Seems to me that what is important to you is seeing the left rule this country. Think you will have a big career playing guitar in the labor camps as the Woody Head Guthrie of the 21st Century?
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
« Reply #33 on: January 10, 2019, 07:22:40 PM »

Quote
"Fighting the fight" is meaningless.   Getting results is what counts.   We need funding for the wall.

If we follow your airhead plan,we would be building the wall to keep people from escaping the 3rd world cesspool that America would become.
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Offline The_Reader_David

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Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
« Reply #34 on: January 10, 2019, 07:49:57 PM »
The advantage to offering a DACA compromise under the present circumstances is that is won't pass because the 'Rats won't compromise, which proves that all they care about is sticking it to Trump, not immigrants from Latin America, thereby showing them to, in fact, be uncaring in exactly the way they purport Republicans are.
And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know what this was all about.

Online libertybele

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Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
« Reply #35 on: January 10, 2019, 08:12:11 PM »
The advantage to offering a DACA compromise under the present circumstances is that is won't pass because the 'Rats won't compromise, which proves that all they care about is sticking it to Trump, not immigrants from Latin America, thereby showing them to, in fact, be uncaring in exactly the way they purport Republicans are.

Well, that is one way to look at it, but should they agree to give money in exchange for DACA, it does greatly compromise not only the future of the GOP but very possibly the sovereignty of this country.

IMHO there are several things in addition to the wall that is needed for border security:

Announce to other countries that the United States of America has now adopted a zero tolerance policy for illegal entry; and will use all means necessary, including lethal force to stop illegal immigration.  Legal immigration into this country will be welcome at a future date.

More border patrol agents and more technology at the border.

Mandatory enforcement of existing immigration law.

End of birthright citizenship, and chain migration and an end to benefits that entice illegals to come here.

A moratorium on ALL migration into this country until the wall is built and our immigration laws are being enforced.

To deal with illegal already in this country:

No DACA, no normalization for Dreamers; to do so is nothing short of amnesty.

No benefits for illegals/undocumented aliens.

Voluntary deportation; those that self deport can register and will have a chance for legal entry into this country.  Those that don't register and don't self deport if apprehended will have NO chance for legal entry into this country.

Continuation of no migration into this country from areas of known terrorists.

A federal ban on Sharia law.
"I believe in the United States of America as a Government of the people, by the people, for the people; whose just powers are derived from the consent of the governed; a democracy in a republic; a sovereign nation of many sovereign states; a perfect union one and inseparable; established upon those principles of freedom, equality, justice and humanity for which American patriots sacrificed their lives and fortunes. I therefore believe it is my duty to my country to love it; to support its Constitution; to obey it laws; to respect its flag; and to defend it against all enemies." -William Page

Offline Chosen Daughter

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Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
« Reply #36 on: January 10, 2019, 08:37:31 PM »
@libertybele

Yes, a dictatorship which is what Trump wants as he believes only he can run the country with no one's help.
I think what Lindsay Graham said today, (and don't dump on Graham as he is a Senator with following), which was like this, "I see no way out of this."  He looked downcast, sad, and was admitting he could do nothing to get us out of this stalemate.  What will Trump do?  Someone here said he would announce the National Emergency Declaration at the State of the Union speech later this month.  Trump would have millions watching that speech and he would be the "King of The Hill" dictating what "His" country is going to do.  I agree with Graham, this is sad our government workers do not get paid so Trump can rule the country.

If he is sad it will only be until the next golfing trip with the President.  Why don't you place the blame where it belongs.  Democrats, and yes Graham.   Because they know they can maneuver Graham because he has always and recently stated his amnesty desires.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2019, 08:39:44 PM by Chosen Daughter »
Who?:

In 2008 he donated to the campaign for Hillary Clinton and his newspaper the New York Observer endorsed Barack Obama over John McCain in the US presidential election.

Answer:  Jared Kushner.   Is that the good judgement of someone we want to handle ME peace and US Immigration?

Offline Chosen Daughter

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Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
« Reply #37 on: January 10, 2019, 08:42:08 PM »
Well, that is one way to look at it, but should they agree to give money in exchange for DACA, it does greatly compromise not only the future of the GOP but very possibly the sovereignty of this country.

IMHO there are several things in addition to the wall that is needed for border security:

Announce to other countries that the United States of America has now adopted a zero tolerance policy for illegal entry; and will use all means necessary, including lethal force to stop illegal immigration.  Legal immigration into this country will be welcome at a future date.

More border patrol agents and more technology at the border.

Mandatory enforcement of existing immigration law.

End of birthright citizenship, and chain migration and an end to benefits that entice illegals to come here.

A moratorium on ALL migration into this country until the wall is built and our immigration laws are being enforced.

To deal with illegal already in this country:

No DACA, no normalization for Dreamers; to do so is nothing short of amnesty.

No benefits for illegals/undocumented aliens.

Voluntary deportation; those that self deport can register and will have a chance for legal entry into this country.  Those that don't register and don't self deport if apprehended will have NO chance for legal entry into this country.

Continuation of no migration into this country from areas of known terrorists.

A federal ban on Sharia law.

Amen.
Who?:

In 2008 he donated to the campaign for Hillary Clinton and his newspaper the New York Observer endorsed Barack Obama over John McCain in the US presidential election.

Answer:  Jared Kushner.   Is that the good judgement of someone we want to handle ME peace and US Immigration?

Offline Fishrrman

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Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
« Reply #38 on: January 10, 2019, 08:52:05 PM »
Great post, libertybele !  (#35)

Offline Chosen Daughter

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Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
« Reply #39 on: January 10, 2019, 09:04:15 PM »
I certainly can understand your viewpoint.  Take into consideration the crisis at the border; and there IS and has been a crisis at the border for some time.  We cannot continue to allow millions to enter this country;especially when among them are terrorists and gang members and those that do harm to our citizenry.

We recently had a mob caravan of appx. 10,000 pounding on our back door.  It was recently announced that another caravan even larger is on its way. 

So President Trump wants funding for a physical barrier.  The DEMS who have publicly announced support for a border wall in the past, now have back pedaled and refuse to give him his funding.

What is he supposed to do?  Especially when this is the very issue that won him the presidency.  Those people want a wall.  As President it is his job and he took and oath to defend this country.  In 2006 BOTH Houses voted for the Secure Fence Act; 700 miles of fence were built ... we've been waiting an awfully long time for the rest of the fence to be funded.

Also keep in mind, that he didn't immediately state that he's going to declare a National Emergency; he made other attempts to no avail.  He PROMISED those that voted for him a wall.  We have a crisis at the border.  Again, what is he supposed to do?  Say, sorry, America, Chuck and Nancy don't want a wall, so we need to pander to them??

Personally, I don't think so.

They were running video of Diane Feinstein last night talking about illegal immigration.  That new girl on FOX news said she used to talk just like Trump.  She did.  See it here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvRZdNoHEf8

So what has happened since then for this turn around?  I don't know, and I hate to sound like a conspiracy nut but Cartels have crossed my mind many times.  Why would we think that they will not infiltrate our political system here when they control every major city.  If they assassinate politicians and run the government in Mexico they certainly will here too.
Who?:

In 2008 he donated to the campaign for Hillary Clinton and his newspaper the New York Observer endorsed Barack Obama over John McCain in the US presidential election.

Answer:  Jared Kushner.   Is that the good judgement of someone we want to handle ME peace and US Immigration?

Online TomSea

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Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
« Reply #40 on: January 10, 2019, 09:17:41 PM »
They were running video of Diane Feinstein last night talking about illegal immigration.  That new girl on FOX news said she used to talk just like Trump.  She did.  See it here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvRZdNoHEf8

So what has happened since then for this turn around?  I don't know, and I hate to sound like a conspiracy nut but Cartels have crossed my mind many times.  Why would we think that they will not infiltrate our political system here when they control every major city.  If they assassinate politicians and run the government in Mexico they certainly will here too.

I think it is mainly about changing red states to blue.... there can be a lot of speculation. As has been said, Obama and others said in the past, similar things that Trump is saying now.

Offline bilo

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Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
« Reply #41 on: January 10, 2019, 11:13:12 PM »

We currently have a split Congress, so how am I wrong? Even if they had enough Senators to defect, the motion still requires Trump’s signature, which he won’t provide. They don’t have the veto override numbers. If they did, they’d just end the shutdown.

No, it doesn't.

The law was designed so a President can declare an emergency and act quickly and Congress can react if they disagree. If the POTUS declares an emergency the House can pass a rebuke (nullifying the declaration) which the Senate must then vote on within 15 days. If both chambers vote to rebuke the emergency declaration then the national emergency is ended.
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
« Reply #42 on: January 11, 2019, 03:44:27 AM »
Well, that is one way to look at it, but should they agree to give money in exchange for DACA, it does greatly compromise not only the future of the GOP but very possibly the sovereignty of this country.

IMHO there are several things in addition to the wall that is needed for border security:

Announce to other countries that the United States of America has now adopted a zero tolerance policy for illegal entry; and will use all means necessary, including lethal force to stop illegal immigration.  Legal immigration into this country will be welcome at a future date.

More border patrol agents and more technology at the border.

Mandatory enforcement of existing immigration law.

End of birthright citizenship, and chain migration and an end to benefits that entice illegals to come here.

A moratorium on ALL migration into this country until the wall is built and our immigration laws are being enforced.

To deal with illegal already in this country:

No DACA, no normalization for Dreamers; to do so is nothing short of amnesty.

No benefits for illegals/undocumented aliens.

Voluntary deportation; those that self deport can register and will have a chance for legal entry into this country.  Those that don't register and don't self deport if apprehended will have NO chance for legal entry into this country.

Continuation of no migration into this country from areas of known terrorists.

A federal ban on Sharia law.

@libertybele

 :amen: :amen: :amen:  What you wrote. ALL of it.
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Online TomSea

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Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
« Reply #43 on: January 11, 2019, 06:04:35 AM »
Well, that is one way to look at it, but should they agree to give money in exchange for DACA, it does greatly compromise not only the future of the GOP but very possibly the sovereignty of this country.

IMHO there are several things in addition to the wall that is needed for border security:

Announce to other countries that the United States of America has now adopted a zero tolerance policy for illegal entry; and will use all means necessary, including lethal force to stop illegal immigration.  Legal immigration into this country will be welcome at a future date.

More border patrol agents and more technology at the border.

Mandatory enforcement of existing immigration law.

End of birthright citizenship, and chain migration and an end to benefits that entice illegals to come here.

A moratorium on ALL migration into this country until the wall is built and our immigration laws are being enforced.

To deal with illegal already in this country:

No DACA, no normalization for Dreamers; to do so is nothing short of amnesty.

No benefits for illegals/undocumented aliens.

Voluntary deportation; those that self deport can register and will have a chance for legal entry into this country.  Those that don't register and don't self deport if apprehended will have NO chance for legal entry into this country.

Continuation of no migration into this country from areas of known terrorists.

A federal ban on Sharia law.

That will work for a while but if one is talking true demographic change, over the span of 10, 20, 30 years, that change will still happen.  Just saying some are illegal doesn't address a lot of problems.

Congress has to vote on these things as well.

I might want this, this and this. It doesn't mean it's going to happen.

Plenty of Hispanics, legal citizens and likely Democrats, become voting age every year.

Offline Once-Ler

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Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
« Reply #44 on: January 11, 2019, 06:51:32 AM »


https://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/trump-lindsay-graham-insults-219374
Quote
“I think Lindsey Graham is a disgrace, and I think you have one of the worst representatives of any representative in the United States, and I don’t think he should run,” Trump said about the South Carolina senator at a campaign event in front of the lawmaker's home-state crowd. “I don’t think he could run for dog catcher in this state and win again. I really don’t. Other than that, I think he’s wonderful.”

“He’s one of the dumbest human beings I’ve ever seen,” Trump said.

I think they are both right.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2019, 07:07:07 AM by Once-Ler »
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
« Reply #45 on: January 11, 2019, 09:21:36 AM »


https://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/trump-lindsay-graham-insults-219374
I think they are both right.

@Once-Ler

Yeah,but you also think Mad Maxine Waters is a genius.

Then again,compared to you she might be one.
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Offline XenaLee

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Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
« Reply #46 on: January 11, 2019, 09:50:16 AM »
Ok ... in the same light though, if I'm understanding what you're saying next time DEMS are in office, all they have to do is continuously declare a National emergency for everything ... and there would be no stopping them. 

In essence then, what we would have at the end of the day is a dictatorship.

Correct.  And we already know that they have that mentality.  I recall during GWB's presidency how the left framed everything as a "crisis". 
Time for unity in America! (better late than never)


Offline aligncare

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Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
« Reply #47 on: January 11, 2019, 10:09:48 AM »
Gregg Jarrett said yesterday, as he was guest hosting Sean Hannity’s show, that nearly every president, including Carter, Reagan, Clinton, Bush, Obama, had declared a national emergency roughly a dozen times each, and no one whispered a word of criticism.

Trump talks about declaring a national emergency and the left, including NeverTrumpers, lose their minds.

TDS: it’s a real thing.

Online TomSea

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Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
« Reply #48 on: January 11, 2019, 10:14:10 AM »
Quote
Another decline in American exceptionalism: The falling fertility rate
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/another-decline-in-american-exceptionalism-the-falling-fertility-rate

All of the whining about Dreamers isn't going to overcome stats like the above.  Their number delays what could be coming unless Americans start getting their replacement rate back up.

Hey, Santa Claus, I want this and that too.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2019, 10:15:43 AM by TomSea »

Online TomSea

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Re: Sen. Lindsey Graham is throwing a Hail Mary to reopen the government.
« Reply #49 on: January 11, 2019, 10:17:37 AM »
Gregg Jarrett said yesterday, as he was guest hosting Sean Hannity’s show, that nearly every president, including Carter, Reagan, Clinton, Bush, Obama, had declared a national emergency roughly a dozen times each, and no one whispered a word of criticism.

Trump talks about declaring a national emergency and the left, including NeverTrumpers, lose their minds.

TDS: it’s a real thing.

I wasn't aware of this. I know Obama did for dreamers.... I'm told.  Good post.


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