Author Topic: David Hogg responds to Trump address: 'No one is illegal on stolen land'  (Read 9542 times)

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Offline Free Vulcan

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Re: David Hogg responds to Trump address: 'No one is illegal on stolen land'
« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2019, 03:56:07 pm »
He seems to have the attention span of a gnat. Today's issue: the evil white man's oppression of the noble red man. Tomorrow: how Butterball is abusing innocent turkeys.

Welcome to the religion of leftist intersectionality.
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Re: David Hogg responds to Trump address: 'No one is illegal on stolen land'
« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2019, 03:58:46 pm »
So taking the assertion that we stole the land, we then give it to the Mexicans, Muslims, and everyone else but the original owners?

Words that sound so clever strung together looks so stupid when given honest critical thought. Classic leftists.
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Re: David Hogg responds to Trump address: 'No one is illegal on stolen land'
« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2019, 04:05:01 pm »
Now that we have heard from the hogg...how long before the bald headed lesbian Sinead O'connor look-a-like pops up like a whack-a-mole.
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: David Hogg responds to Trump address: 'No one is illegal on stolen land'
« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2019, 05:39:13 pm »
He managed to slip into Hahvahd, but getting through it is a different matter.

@Cyber Liberty

He WILL graduate if he is willing to stick there long enough. There is no way in hell that Harvard is ever going to admit they made a political decision to enroll someone wildly unqualified and not named Kennedy.
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Offline GrouchoTex

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Re: David Hogg responds to Trump address: 'No one is illegal on stolen land'
« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2019, 06:56:13 pm »
Since the grounds that Harvard occupies was once Indian land, perhaps he should not go there, or insist that it be given back to Elizabeth Warren and her people.
 :cool:

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Re: David Hogg responds to Trump address: 'No one is illegal on stolen land'
« Reply #30 on: January 11, 2019, 07:10:01 pm »
@Cyber Liberty

He WILL graduate if he is willing to stick there long enough. There is no way in hell that Harvard is ever going to admit they made a political decision to enroll someone wildly unqualified and not named Kennedy.
If they claimed that last great constitutional scholar, y'know, that 'so clean' 'magic' fellow, Hell, they have no shame and will just about graduate anyone they let in the door.

An increasing number of once 'hallowed' educational institutions have completely lost credibility with me, and no doubt, there will be more to come.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

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Re: David Hogg responds to Trump address: 'No one is illegal on stolen land'
« Reply #31 on: January 11, 2019, 07:33:32 pm »
He managed to slip into Hahvahd, but getting through it is a different matter.

If Baraq Obama can get through Harvard, then anyone (except Ted Kennedy) can get through Harvard.
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: David Hogg responds to Trump address: 'No one is illegal on stolen land'
« Reply #32 on: January 11, 2019, 11:47:15 pm »
If Baraq Obama can get through Harvard, then anyone (except Ted Kennedy) can get through Harvard.

@Hoodat

Fat Teddy would have been fine if someone hadn't turned him in for cheating. Probably to the only professor that would make a big deal out of it.

As a result,he had to spend two years in the army as enlisted swine in a MP unit in Germany. Imagine that. A Kennedy serving as enlisted swine. I would almost be willing to bet he never arrested or gave anyone a ticket his entire 2 years of active duty. Or worked nights and weekends.
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Offline goatprairie

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Re: David Hogg responds to Trump address: 'No one is illegal on stolen land'
« Reply #33 on: January 12, 2019, 03:13:34 am »
So taking the assertion that we stole the land, we then give it to the Mexicans, Muslims, and everyone else but the original owners?

Words that sound so clever strung together looks so stupid when given honest critical thought. Classic leftists.
If we analyzed the history of the world, it consists of hundreds of thousands of instances of some people taking over the land of other people.  There is scarcely any country of size in the world that did not have it's early inhabitants conquered by other peoples with the latter becoming the dominant group.
If everybody in the world had to go back to the country where their ancestors came from, we'd probably see half the earth's population or more having to move back somewhere else..

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Re: David Hogg responds to Trump address: 'No one is illegal on stolen land'
« Reply #34 on: January 12, 2019, 01:05:15 pm »
If we analyzed the history of the world, it consists of hundreds of thousands of instances of some people taking over the land of other people.  There is scarcely any country of size in the world that did not have it's early inhabitants conquered by other peoples with the latter becoming the dominant group.
If everybody in the world had to go back to the country where their ancestors came from, we'd probably see half the earth's population or more having to move back somewhere else..
See, there's the problem. Which country they came from? England? Normandy (some left ca 1066), Scandinavia (earlier yet), even farther back to where? We'd all be standing outside The Garden.

Humanity's history is one of exploration, assimilation, conflict, conquest, of seeing who or what is over the next hill, and often enough, moving there. Much of the spread of technology, and indeed the stirring of the gene pool has come from just that.

In terms of culture and the gene pool, humanity doesn't do so well when it stagnates--decadence, classical immorality and perversions seem to rise from that ichor, and with that, the culture is often destroyed by people who aren't encumbered by such cultural liabilities, who have focus on the things which actually strengthen their offspring and their culture. Eventually, they, too, seem to become complacent, distracted by serious diversions from that which is biologically (and morally) fundamental, and either rot in their own cultural ooze, imploding, or are overrun--an eventuality, in any case.

The essence of a Frontier, how it strengthens humanity, is that those on that cutting edge who remain focused on survival first, and development as an adjunct to that, seem less likely to be distracted by the self destructive tendencies of those who live a more complacent existence. It does not mean they always prevail, just that in many ways their culture is more fit to do so. History is littered with the husks of decadent empires which yet managed to destroy those in their path, regardless of the rot within, before finally being overrun themselves or imploding from the fruits of their own decadence.

If we ask what contribution to the survival and development of the species, indeed that subculture of the species, a particular aspect of a culture gives, we find that having matching drapes is nowhere as important as the seemingly drab contribution of agriculture, good hunters or herdsmen, and those who risk life and limb to defend those, all of whom are often held in contempt by the rotting and decadent factions who would rule over them.

Such syndromes are writ, time and again, in the ruins of civilizations great and small, and none but the most vigilant are immune, and then only for so long as they remain vigilant.

But then, Jefferson summed it up "Eternal vigilance is the price of Liberty".

We suffer from two invasions, unfortunately, one from without, the latter day Visigoths are at the gate--only there is no gate, not even a wall. As bad as that is, as easily identifiable, we suffer from the internal and less immediately obvious cultural decay that has been the death knell of many civilizations as well, a pervasive rot that kills from within, that snakes its tendrils into every facet of the lives of ordinary people.
 
Whatever name is put on it, the basics are the same, with fundamental confusion over what is 'good' for society and what is 'bad' for society, a confusion those who will overrun the culture are not burdened with, a serious weakness that extends from personal mindsets to the collective works of the culture, even undercutting those basic things which would allow the culture to continue.
 
Those who would invade from without have little such confusion, and to the undiscerning eye, that may seem ruthless or brutal, but it is the reality of nature, that those who are strong will prevail, and that strength is not merely a matter of arms, but that which has the integrity to stand for the things and ideas which allowed the culture to flourish or even prevail in the first place.

Time and again, the seeds of the destruction of empires are inherent in the self-destructive tendencies in human nature: those 'seven deadly sins' ( pride, greed, lust, envy, gluttony, wrath and sloth) which take root in the leadership of the empire, and even in the populace itself, and despite the ardent efforts of those who resist the  moral decay, are eventually imposed on the populace if they have not embraced such.
 
Without careful attention and  limitation those seeds take root, expand their range, and become so deeply rooted in the cultural framework, that they choke out any effort to be productive and consume the resources of those who would try.
 
It is in our Constitution that the power of government to expand was limited, by checks and balances within the system, by codified Rights of the People to question, limit, and even resist that Government when it was growing beyond its proscribed limits, and by the retention of Rights not so codified by the People and their local (state) governments.

It is apparent to the student of that intent that it has been thwarted over time, increasingly so by those who prey upon a population kept ignorant of those rights, undermining the foundations of the Republic which was instituted to protect them and turning that same government into a mechanism of oppression, first for some, eventually for all.
Either that metastasizing corruption is thwarted, rooted out, and excised, or it will eventually destroy the host.
Whether America can or will, or has the will to remove the rot, teach her children, and get back to those basics is history unwrit, but if the pattern is followed, that of millennia, writ in the ruins of the mighty nations past, this great experiment's days are numbered unless there is a reversion to many of the basic principles that made the country great to begin with.

Hogue's nonsense is a small part of the problem, but the well fertilized minds he casts that seed upon, even more so.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline sneakypete

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Re: David Hogg responds to Trump address: 'No one is illegal on stolen land'
« Reply #35 on: January 12, 2019, 02:38:20 pm »
See, there's the problem. Which country they came from? England? Normandy (some left ca 1066), Scandinavia (earlier yet), even farther back to where? We'd all be standing outside The Garden.

Humanity's history is one of exploration, assimilation, conflict, conquest, of seeing who or what is over the next hill, and often enough, moving there. Much of the spread of technology, and indeed the stirring of the gene pool has come from just that.

In terms of culture and the gene pool, humanity doesn't do so well when it stagnates--decadence, classical immorality and perversions seem to rise from that ichor, and with that, the culture is often destroyed by people who aren't encumbered by such cultural liabilities, who have focus on the things which actually strengthen their offspring and their culture. Eventually, they, too, seem to become complacent, distracted by serious diversions from that which is biologically (and morally) fundamental, and either rot in their own cultural ooze, imploding, or are overrun--an eventuality, in any case.



Let's not forget that all through history the same desire to expand their horizons and create even bigger empires via war ended up eventually bleeding them dry of their "adventurous blood" as their soldiers either bled out in foreign lands,or mated with the local women in foreign lands,and never came "home" again.

In essence,most empires died from suicide via the lust for power and more wealth.
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Online Smokin Joe

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Re: David Hogg responds to Trump address: 'No one is illegal on stolen land'
« Reply #36 on: January 12, 2019, 03:15:29 pm »
Let's not forget that all through history the same desire to expand their horizons and create even bigger empires via war ended up eventually bleeding them dry of their "adventurous blood" as their soldiers either bled out in foreign lands,or mated with the local women in foreign lands,and never came "home" again.

In essence,most empires died from suicide via the lust for power and more wealth.
Part of Europe's cultural implosion can be traced to the slaughter of two generations of healthy and bright young men in the two world wars, the extermination of others, and the survival of the 4Fs and feather merchants.

Those who had discovered and used expedients beyond the ordinary pale of peacetime government were wont to relinquish their methods or the power those methods brought. It is one thing to step out of bounds to meet the ends of war, and quite another to step back within the constraints of a peacetime government once those boundaries have been crossed.
The socialist predators who also remained have prevailed to some degree, the survivors and descendants of the competitors for power in pre-WWII Germany who are brutally scavenging the remains of Europe before turning ithe stripped carcass over to an even older enemy, the Muslims.
While many valorous and honorable men survived the World Wars, the overall effect on the population base (gene pool) was devastating, and with subterfuge from within (and influences from the East), the issue remains in question.
That is the unfortunate part of the trend to mimic European models here, In the Post-WWII period. Those models either failed or caused bitter conflict and national devastation, or left critical weaknesses that led to their nation's demise.

When you have THE model to follow, why forsake it for others which have demonstrably failed? Yet that has also been the hallmark of the 20th Century, with increasing abandonment of our Founding concepts for others which have repeatedly failed.  We need to get back to basics.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline sneakypete

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Re: David Hogg responds to Trump address: 'No one is illegal on stolen land'
« Reply #37 on: January 12, 2019, 06:48:59 pm »
Part of Europe's cultural implosion can be traced to the slaughter of two generations of healthy and bright young men in the two world wars, the extermination of others, and the survival of the 4Fs and feather merchants.

Those who had discovered and used expedients beyond the ordinary pale of peacetime government were wont to relinquish their methods or the power those methods brought. It is one thing to step out of bounds to meet the ends of war, and quite another to step back within the constraints of a peacetime government once those boundaries have been crossed.
The socialist predators who also remained have prevailed to some degree, the survivors and descendants of the competitors for power in pre-WWII Germany who are brutally scavenging the remains of Europe before turning ithe stripped carcass over to an even older enemy, the Muslims.
While many valorous and honorable men survived the World Wars, the overall effect on the population base (gene pool) was devastating, and with subterfuge from within (and influences from the East), the issue remains in question.
That is the unfortunate part of the trend to mimic European models here, In the Post-WWII period. Those models either failed or caused bitter conflict and national devastation, or left critical weaknesses that led to their nation's demise.

When you have THE model to follow, why forsake it for others which have demonstrably failed? Yet that has also been the hallmark of the 20th Century, with increasing abandonment of our Founding concepts for others which have repeatedly failed.  We need to get back to basics.

@Smokin Joe

The part that makes MY head hurt the most is NONE of this stuff is a secret. It's laying right out there in the open for anyone to see that bothers to look,yet either no one looks,or everyone that does is afraid to mention it?

This is about as complex and controversial as the sun coming up in the east,yet nobody in any government anywhere in the world or in any news publication anywhere in the world seems to be aware of it or willing to write about it if they are aware of it.

WTF??????
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Online Smokin Joe

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Re: David Hogg responds to Trump address: 'No one is illegal on stolen land'
« Reply #38 on: January 12, 2019, 07:34:51 pm »
@Smokin Joe

The part that makes MY head hurt the most is NONE of this stuff is a secret. It's laying right out there in the open for anyone to see that bothers to look,yet either no one looks,or everyone that does is afraid to mention it?

This is about as complex and controversial as the sun coming up in the east,yet nobody in any government anywhere in the world or in any news publication anywhere in the world seems to be aware of it or willing to write about it if they are aware of it.

WTF??????
It's not that hard, pete. Most of what was left were either genuine heroes or the sort of bureaucratic snakes who learned how to game the system. The heroes have mostly died off. Those in active service comprise a very small fraction of the population, so even with the veterans out there, they are a minority. There is a huge component whose interests seldom go any farther than their wallet. They vote based on what makes them money--or what they think will. The rest, the younger set, don't want to be reminded of their personal deficits. How was it put in Henry V?
Quote
And gentlemen in England now a-bed
Shall think themselves accurs'd they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.

Few who do not serve will accomplish anything in their lives that will enable them otherwise, and, full knowing they have never faced an enemy in mortal combat, shrink from the idea that they, indeed, "hold their manhoods cheap".

So they devalue in their minds that which they cannot or will never achieve. They try to act as if it makes no difference, or, in the extreme decry as Kipling said:
Quote
O makin’ mock o’ uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an’ they’re starvation cheap;
An’ hustlin’ drunken sodgers when they’re goin’ large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin’ in full kit.

And there you have it. Generations of milquetoasts under the lash of the predatory socialists who have decried (for their own self esteem) those who have given them that little Liberty to do so.

What do you expect?
There was a time when the Mayor of London would have been removed from his digs by the mob, tarred and feathered, and tied to a fencerail or thrown in the Thames.

No more.

And damn them all, they have exported that spiritual sickness here.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline sneakypete

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Re: David Hogg responds to Trump address: 'No one is illegal on stolen land'
« Reply #39 on: January 12, 2019, 07:55:25 pm »

 @Smokin Joe

And gentlemen in England now a-bed
Shall think themselves accurs'd they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.


I will remain convinced until my dying day that Rudyard Kipling was one of the smartest men that ever lived.

And  his mention in this context is entirely appropriate as his only child died as an infantry officer in battle during WW-1. He was only 18,and shouldn't even have been accepted by the army due to poor eyesight. In fact,the Royal Navy turned him down because of it.

""It's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, 'ow's yer soul?"/ But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll (Tommy)"

Above is one of the most profound lines ever written.
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Online Smokin Joe

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Re: David Hogg responds to Trump address: 'No one is illegal on stolen land'
« Reply #40 on: January 12, 2019, 08:53:08 pm »
I will remain convinced until my dying day that Rudyard Kipling was one of the smartest men that ever lived.

And  his mention in this context is entirely appropriate as his only child died as an infantry officer in battle during WW-1. He was only 18,and shouldn't even have been accepted by the army due to poor eyesight. In fact,the Royal Navy turned him down because of it.

""It's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, 'ow's yer soul?"/ But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll (Tommy)"

Above is one of the most profound lines ever written.
I have always liked Kipling. He got it, and should be required reading.
 
The tendency of societies to marginalize those selfsame men who risked all that they would have the liberty to do that marginalizing, has ever been present. They who were not there hold their manhoods cheap, and hate being reminded of that.
There are other ways aside from military service by which one may hold their head high, but will ever be reminded that the dangers or hardships they may have faced pale to those in combat.

For those who lack even that mitigation of their sense of self worth, the feelings of inadequacy, or in some cases, just questioning how they would perform in dire circumstance will ever persist unless they have to face them. They don't know, and are ever intimidated by those who do.

One of the reasons masculinity is being forcibly devalued is that removal of the old playground system of 'sorting things out' bare knuckles has left so many with no way to establish themselves in that instinctive peer group dominance pecking order those conflicts sorted out. Small wonder they now reach for a Glock when they get 'dissed' after years of being denied a less lethal, but effective alternative to 'conflict resolution'. They hunt in packs, like dogs, because they have been denied the opportunity to excel alone.

School shootings were pretty rare in the days of the playground fistfight--the issues were settled in a less than lethal manner, without the 'nuclear option' even considered. Somehow the liberals think that depriving young men and growing boys the means of sorting out dominance in their peer groups will 'civilize' them but that is having the opposite effect.
Anyway, back on topic, Kipling.

My mother, who always placed tremendous emphasis on integrity and literacy, sat me down as a lad and taught me Kipling's "If", and it has been a reminder through my life of what being a man is all about. "Gunga DIn" was a follow up, and I was hooked. I don't think they teach it any more in schools.
He was the only poet I liked more than Poe and Robert Service.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

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Re: David Hogg responds to Trump address: 'No one is illegal on stolen land'
« Reply #41 on: January 12, 2019, 09:31:05 pm »
Quote
I have always liked Kipling. He got it, and should be required reading.
 

@Smokin Joe

I couldn't agree more.




Quote
For those who lack even that mitigation of their sense of self worth, the feelings of inadequacy, or in some cases, just questioning how they would perform in dire circumstance will ever persist unless they have to face them. They don't know, and are ever intimidated by those who do.

The irony here is that even if you performed at a Medal of Honor Awardee level the last time you were in combat,that is only a SUGGESTION of how you will perform the next time. Men are men,not machines,and all men have moods and superstitions. The unit I was in while in VN had a rule that anyone could quit anytime they wanted,with no harm done to their career and no shame. The people who did quit,including in one case the Recon Company 1st Sgt,were treated with nothing but respect,and were usually given their choice of non-combatant jobs. In the case of the Recon Company 1st Sgt,it was the stress of sending his friends out on teams that never came back or came back in body bags was what did it to him,not his own personal risk. He was a VERY well-respected man decades later when he finally died of old age. I got back in touch with him in the late 80's and we had a really good telephone "visit".

The thing is that NOBODY can tell when you have reached your breaking point but you,and no man has the standing to criticize another man for recognizing and accepting he has reached his limit.

The only exception to this rule was that once your team had been tasked for a mission and you had been briefed on it. In that case you had to go. Under no circumstances were you to be allowed to let your team down.

Quote
My mother, who always placed tremendous emphasis on integrity and literacy, sat me down as a lad and taught me Kipling's "If", and it has been a reminder through my life of what being a man is all about. "Gunga DIn" was a follow up, and I was hooked.


She did you a solid,no doubt about that. The rare woman that knew what being a man was all about,and understood why it was necessary for a male to be a man.

Quote
I don't think they teach it any more in schools.

I may be wrong,but IF I remember correctly,he was pretty much demonized and banned from most schools in the 80's when the delicate little flowers discovered "The White Man's Burden".

"Take up the White Man’s burden—

Send forth the best ye breed—

Go send your sons to exile

To serve your captives' need

To wait in heavy harness

On fluttered folk and wild—

Your new-caught, sullen peoples,

Half devil and half child

Take up the White Man’s burden

In patience to abide

To veil the threat of terror

And check the show of pride;

By open speech and simple

An hundred times made plain

To seek another’s profit

And work another’s gain

Take up the White Man’s burden—

And reap his old reward:

The blame of those ye better

The hate of those ye guard—

The cry of hosts ye humour

(Ah slowly) to the light:

"Why brought ye us from bondage,

“Our loved Egyptian night?”

Take up the White Man’s burden-

Have done with childish days-

The lightly proffered laurel,

The easy, ungrudged praise.

Comes now, to search your manhood

Through all the thankless years,

Cold-edged with dear-bought wisdom,

The judgment of your peers!"

Source: Rudyard Kipling, “The White Man’s Burden: The United States & The Philippine Islands, 1899.” Rudyard Kipling’s Verse: Definitive Edition (Garden City, New York: Doubleday, 1929).


« Last Edit: January 12, 2019, 09:32:50 pm by sneakypete »
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Online Smokin Joe

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Re: David Hogg responds to Trump address: 'No one is illegal on stolen land'
« Reply #42 on: January 12, 2019, 09:51:33 pm »
@Smokin Joe

I couldn't agree more.




The irony here is that even if you performed at a Medal of Honor Awardee level the last time you were in combat,that is only a SUGGESTION of how you will perform the next time. Men are men,not machines,and all men have moods and superstitions. The unit I was in while in VN had a rule that anyone could quit anytime they wanted,with no harm done to their career and no shame. The people who did quit,including in one case the Recon Company 1st Sgt,were treated with nothing but respect,and were usually given their choice of non-combatant jobs. In the case of the Recon Company 1st Sgt,it was the stress of sending his friends out on teams that never came back or came back in body bags was what did it to him,not his own personal risk. He was a VERY well-respected man decades later when he finally died of old age. I got back in touch with him in the late 80's and we had a really good telephone "visit".

The thing is that NOBODY can tell when you have reached your breaking point but you,and no man has the standing to criticize another man for recognizing and accepting he has reached his limit.

The only exception to this rule was that once your team had been tasked for a mission and you had been briefed on it. In that case you had to go. Under no circumstances were you to be allowed to let your team down.
I was just a firefighter, but yes, there were guys who said "I can't". We had one guy who froze on a ladder during a training exercise--we had to take the ladder down and pry him off it... Below 10 feet he was okay, above that, no way. But we knew it, and he was a good fireman otherwise. No shame, no two people are the same. We just didn't send him up the ladder. I made second Lieutenant in the fire dept, and quickly discovered I liked taking orders more than being responsible for giving them. We never had anyone get killed, I can't imagine what it was like for your 1st Sgt. No shame in him saying he was done, either.

Another of my favorite quotes comes to mind...

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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat."

More words for a man to live by.

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She did you a solid,no doubt about that. The rare woman that knew what being a man was all about,and understood why it was necessary for a male to be a man.

Well, she was married to my Father, a man I respect--not just as my Father, but as one of the few heroes in my life--and who is widely respected among those who know him. Mom had someone there who lived the example. She is another of my heroes, a woman whose formal education did not go beyond High School, who was very well read, literate beyond any who hold Bachelor's degrees today, who held forth that being right and being moral was every bit as important as getting things done, who understood and conveyed the concept of Honor, something severely lacking in today's youth.
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I may be wrong,but IF I remember correctly,he was pretty much demonized and banned from most schools in the 80's when the delicate little flowers discovered "The White Man's Burden".

"Take up the White Man’s burden—

Send forth the best ye breed—

Go send your sons to exile

To serve your captives' need

To wait in heavy harness

On fluttered folk and wild—

Your new-caught, sullen peoples,

Half devil and half child

Take up the White Man’s burden

In patience to abide

To veil the threat of terror

And check the show of pride;

By open speech and simple

An hundred times made plain

To seek another’s profit

And work another’s gain

Take up the White Man’s burden—

And reap his old reward:

The blame of those ye better

The hate of those ye guard—

The cry of hosts ye humour

(Ah slowly) to the light:

"Why brought ye us from bondage,

“Our loved Egyptian night?”

Take up the White Man’s burden-

Have done with childish days-

The lightly proffered laurel,

The easy, ungrudged praise.

Comes now, to search your manhood

Through all the thankless years,

Cold-edged with dear-bought wisdom,

The judgment of your peers!"

Source: Rudyard Kipling, “The White Man’s Burden: The United States & The Philippine Islands, 1899.” Rudyard Kipling’s Verse: Definitive Edition (Garden City, New York: Doubleday, 1929).
yep. Then they went off in different directions with the Maya Angelous and others....all political more than studies of human nature, and English students have ever suffered that loss.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Absalom

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Re: David Hogg responds to Trump address: 'No one is illegal on stolen land'
« Reply #43 on: January 12, 2019, 10:45:59 pm »
Well done reflections from Smokin and Sneaky.
Some observations.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
* Mankind's earliest social order was Tribal; enduring to this day in many areas of the world.
* The concept of the nation emerged in Greece and Rome, later flourishing in Europe.
* Our Colonists were primarily English for some 200 years, often acquiring Indian Land via trade.
* The Vatican promoted the Treaty of Westphalia, ending the Thirty Years War in 1648.
* It birthed Sovereign Right, enabling the nation/state having clearly defined borders and a shared cultural identity, to carry out its designated functions on behalf of society.
Someone alert Hogg!!!

« Last Edit: January 13, 2019, 06:31:31 am by Absalom »

Online Smokin Joe

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Re: David Hogg responds to Trump address: 'No one is illegal on stolen land'
« Reply #44 on: January 13, 2019, 12:32:50 am »
Well done reflections from Smokin and Sneaky.
Some observations.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
* Mankind's earliest social order was Tribal; enduring to this day in many areas of the world.
* The concept of the nation emerged in Greece and Rome, later flourishing in Europe.
* Our Colonists were primarily English, for almost 200 years, often acquired Indian Land via trade.
* The Vatican promoted the Treaty of Westphalia, ending the Thirty Years War in 1648.
* It birthed Sovereign Right, enabling the nation/state having clearly defined borders and a shared
cultural identity, to carry out its designated functions on behalf of society.
Someone alert Hogg!!!
Thank you. My ancestors bought their land grant land (MD colony) from both of the tribes fighting over it. They established clear title, above and beyond the land grant itself, and ended a war in the process.

Young Mr. Hogg needs some history lessons.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline GtHawk

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Re: David Hogg responds to Trump address: 'No one is illegal on stolen land'
« Reply #45 on: January 13, 2019, 02:23:35 am »
Since the grounds that Harvard occupies was once Indian land, perhaps he should not go there, or insist that it be given back to Elizabeth Warren and her people.
 :cool:
Someone should tell little boss hogg that he should be more worried about his stolen valor than anyone's supposedly stolen land.

Offline Dexter

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Re: David Hogg responds to Trump address: 'No one is illegal on stolen land'
« Reply #46 on: January 13, 2019, 02:47:44 am »
So he thinks we should give all of our land back to Mexico and the native Americans?
"I know one thing, that I know nothing."
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: David Hogg responds to Trump address: 'No one is illegal on stolen land'
« Reply #47 on: January 13, 2019, 02:49:01 am »
Someone should tell little boss hogg that he should be more worried about his stolen valor than anyone's supposedly stolen land.

He's not worried.  That would require a conscience.
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Offline jpsb

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Re: David Hogg responds to Trump address: 'No one is illegal on stolen land'
« Reply #48 on: January 13, 2019, 02:54:41 am »
So he thinks we should give all of our land back to Mexico and the native Americans?

Mexico NEVER ruled over se USA except for maybe a small part of South Cali. Spain on the other hand ......

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: David Hogg responds to Trump address: 'No one is illegal on stolen land'
« Reply #49 on: January 13, 2019, 03:12:02 am »
Mexico NEVER ruled over se USA except for maybe a small part of South Cali. Spain on the other hand ......

Texas was held by Mexico, wasn't it?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican–American_War

More directly to the point, major onflicts took place in variious regions of the US, and native Ameicans. The biggest was against the Plains Indians, ending in the 1890s.

 

"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln