Author Topic: Trump and the Character Question  (Read 2034 times)

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Offline Emjay

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Trump and the Character Question
« on: January 07, 2019, 01:25:06 PM »
At the midpoint of Donald Trump's presidency, those in his party who seemingly should be supporting him are as critical as ever.  Now it's the issue of his character.
….
Tweets?  It's Trump's way of bypassing a hostile media establishment.  Looking at Twitter at the time of this writing, the Trump hostility is obvious.  I see one tweet from CNN: "Former President Barack Obama lists his favorite books, songs and movies of 2018."

CEOs delegate authority and responsibility.  It's not at all unusual for the CEO not to personally deliver the pink slip, and typically, by the time it happens, it's no surprise to the person being let go.  Big deal.

Praise for dictators?  I'm reminded of the old saying that you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.  These foreign leaders, whether Vladimir Putin or Kim Jung-un, have huge egos.  What good does insulting them on the world stage do to further negotiations?  A better strategy is to be nice to them publicly to let them save face at home while getting tough behind closed doors.  Common sense.  Look at the results rather than the appearance.

Insults for allies? Like NATO allies needing to be shamed into paying their fair share, a term the left loves, for NATO, honoring their agreements?  Past presidents have raised the issue and let it go.  Trump is calling them on it.  Or challenging Angela Merkel on her side deal for natural gas with Russia, in violation of NATO.  It's called accountability.

Trump's history of womanizing as a character flaw?  Sure, but that blanket covers many past presidents.  At least for Trump, it was decades ago, not while he was president, something that cannot be said for many Oval Office occupants.

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2019/01/trump_and_the_character_question.html
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Offline ABX

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Re: Trump and the Character Question
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2019, 01:28:24 PM »
Character matters, leadership descends from character.* - Rush Limbaugh

*subject to change if someone is Rush's golfing buddy or his mouth gets him good ratings.

Offline Emjay

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Re: Trump and the Character Question
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2019, 01:30:41 PM »
Character matters, leadership descends from character.* - Rush Limbaugh

*subject to change if someone is Rush's golfing buddy or his mouth gets him good ratings.

I am not saying that character does not matter and the American Thinker piece is not implying that either.

The article is simply clarifying some of the things Trump is attacked for and explaining why they do not reflect on his character as President.
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Offline ABX

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Re: Trump and the Character Question
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2019, 01:33:17 PM »
I am not saying that character does not matter and the American Thinker piece is not implying that either.

The article is simply clarifying some of the things Trump is attacked for and explaining why they do not reflect on his character as President.

But in many ways they do. So much of his presidency is making people believe he is doing something or believe in what he does even if it goes against their values. You even have some on the right cheering or making excuses for his attacks on the 2nd Amendment and 4th Amendment in regards to gun control (just as an example).

A proper character would mean he would do what is right (follow the Constitution as is his oath) instead of manipulate people into changing their values to meet him.  Character and values have been re-defined as what he does, not the fundamental truth of the value.

Offline Emjay

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Re: Trump and the Character Question
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2019, 01:47:38 PM »
But in many ways they do. So much of his presidency is making people believe he is doing something or believe in what he does even if it goes against their values. You even have some on the right cheering or making excuses for his attacks on the 2nd Amendment and 4th Amendment in regards to gun control (just as an example).

A proper character would mean he would do what is right (follow the Constitution as is his oath) instead of manipulate people into changing their values to meet him.  Character and values have been re-defined as what he does, not the fundamental truth of the value.

Back when I hated Trump, I could find a lot to criticize.  I don't recall any Trump attacks on the 2nd or 4th Amendment ... perhaps on the way some people abuse those amendments?
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Offline Emjay

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Re: Trump and the Character Question
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2019, 01:50:10 PM »
But in many ways they do. So much of his presidency is making people believe he is doing something or believe in what he does even if it goes against their values. You even have some on the right cheering or making excuses for his attacks on the 2nd Amendment and 4th Amendment in regards to gun control (just as an example).

A proper character would mean he would do what is right (follow the Constitution as is his oath) instead of manipulate people into changing their values to meet him.  Character and values have been re-defined as what he does, not the fundamental truth of the value.

Okay.  Here is what Trump had to say about the 2nd amendment:

He tweeted: “THE SECOND AMENDMENT WILL NEVER BE REPEALED! As much as Democrats would like to see this happen, and despite the words yesterday of former Supreme Court Justice Stevens, NO WAY. We need more Republicans in 2018 and must ALWAYS hold the Supreme Court!”
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Offline ABX

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Re: Trump and the Character Question
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2019, 01:54:28 PM »
Okay.  Here is what Trump had to say about the 2nd amendment:

He tweeted: “THE SECOND AMENDMENT WILL NEVER BE REPEALED! As much as Democrats would like to see this happen, and despite the words yesterday of former Supreme Court Justice Stevens, NO WAY. We need more Republicans in 2018 and must ALWAYS hold the Supreme Court!”

That's what he said, but what he has done includes direct the Department of Justice to 'confiscate first and go after due process later' (4th Amendment violation) and order the ATF to ban bump stocks (2nd Amendment violation).

There are many things he says but does the exact opposite.

Remember, this is a person who brags about how good of a liar he is and that he will lie to your face to close a deal in The Art of the Deal.

Offline libertybele

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Re: Trump and the Character Question
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2019, 02:32:00 PM »
Character matters, leadership descends from character.* - Rush Limbaugh

*subject to change if someone is Rush's golfing buddy or his mouth gets him good ratings.

Yes, character does matter, but obviously 63 million people liked his character enough to vote for him, electing him as President.
"I believe in the United States of America as a Government of the people, by the people, for the people; whose just powers are derived from the consent of the governed; a democracy in a republic; a sovereign nation of many sovereign states; a perfect union one and inseparable; established upon those principles of freedom, equality, justice and humanity for which American patriots sacrificed their lives and fortunes. I therefore believe it is my duty to my country to love it; to support its Constitution; to obey it laws; to respect its flag; and to defend it against all enemies." -William Page

Offline ABX

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Re: Trump and the Character Question
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2019, 02:38:28 PM »
Yes, character does matter, but obviously 63 million people liked his character enough to vote for him, electing him as President.

Popularity doesn't equal character.

Otherwise, Kanye West and Justin Bieber would be the standard bearer of good character.  Hell, Saddam Hussein won his elections with 99.9% of the vote.

Character is more often than not, doing what is right even when it isn't popular.

Offline Restored

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Re: Trump and the Character Question
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2019, 02:43:38 PM »
He's certainly a character.
Hahahahaha....No seriously. Who is the President?

Offline libertybele

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Re: Trump and the Character Question
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2019, 02:45:47 PM »
Popularity doesn't equal character.

Otherwise, Kanye West and Justin Bieber would be the standard bearer of good character.  Hell, Saddam Hussein won his elections with 99.9% of the vote.

Character is more often than not, doing what is right even when it isn't popular.

Then Trump by your definition exemplifies character; the wall may not be popular with the DEMS but it is very much needed.  Like his character or not, President Trump is what is standing between our sovereignty and the liberal leftist marxists who would love nothing more than open borders, mass migration and amnesty.

I don't consider myself a Trumpster nor on the Trump train, but he deserves some credit here.
"I believe in the United States of America as a Government of the people, by the people, for the people; whose just powers are derived from the consent of the governed; a democracy in a republic; a sovereign nation of many sovereign states; a perfect union one and inseparable; established upon those principles of freedom, equality, justice and humanity for which American patriots sacrificed their lives and fortunes. I therefore believe it is my duty to my country to love it; to support its Constitution; to obey it laws; to respect its flag; and to defend it against all enemies." -William Page

Offline Emjay

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Re: Trump and the Character Question
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2019, 02:47:23 PM »
Popularity doesn't equal character.

Otherwise, Kanye West and Justin Bieber would be the standard bearer of good character.  Hell, Saddam Hussein won his elections with 99.9% of the vote.

Character is more often than not, doing what is right even when it isn't popular.

Trump was popular with the people because he spoke to their values and he has continued to support the values he spoke for as a candidate.

You can dismiss popularity all you want but Trump was popular with the people and he still is.
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Offline Emjay

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Re: Trump and the Character Question
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2019, 02:49:36 PM »
Then Trump by your definition exemplifies character; the wall may not be popular with the DEMS but it is very much needed.  Like his character or not, President Trump is what is standing between our sovereignty and the liberal leftist marxists who would love nothing more than open borders, mass migration and amnesty.

I don't consider myself a Trumpster nor on the Trump train, but he deserves some credit here.

No matter how you think of yourself, any support you show for anything Trump will be characterized as you being a Trumpster or some kind of Orange person.

It is basically the main, and sometimes only, tool of the NTers on this forum.
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Online aligncare

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Re: Trump and the Character Question
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2019, 03:00:05 PM »
I am not saying that character does not matter and the American Thinker piece is not implying that either.

The article is simply clarifying some of the things Trump is attacked for and explaining why they do not reflect on his character as President.

Dennis Prager is brilliant on this topic and comes to the same conclusions as this author and uses cogent examples of past presidents with character and morality flaws who have done the right thing for the country.

Conversely, he cites presidents who were considered by all to be virtuous individuals but whose actions in office did not help the American people.

Online Jazzhead

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Re: Trump and the Character Question
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2019, 03:02:17 PM »
Yes, character does matter, but obviously 63 million people liked his character enough to vote for him, electing him as President.

Most of those people overlooked his lack of character because they were choking on the idea of a President Hillary.   Come 2020, with four years of Trump's reality show under our belts,  I believe that the peoples' exhaustion will cause him to be crushed in a bid for re-election.   The question becomes what we must do to save conservatism in the face of a Democratic party which appears increasingly likely to oppose Trump with an out-and-out socialist with contempt for the Constitution.   

Republicans must step up and admit the obvious - Trump needs to be opposed for the GOP nomination.   
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Online aligncare

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Re: Trump and the Character Question
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2019, 03:11:21 PM »
He's certainly a character.

The most talked about man in the world. He has occupied more press and air time globally than any figure in recent history.

It takes someone with a strong character to sustain that level of popular interest, good and bad, for as long as Trump has. In a related example, Trump’s name has been mentioned countless times as an example of a successful individual on television shows and in popular media for at least 35 years.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2019, 03:16:56 PM by aligncare »

Offline libertybele

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Re: Trump and the Character Question
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2019, 03:18:10 PM »
No matter how you think of yourself, any support you show for anything Trump will be characterized as you being a Trumpster or some kind of Orange person.

It is basically the main, and sometimes only, tool of the NTers on this forum.

OK ... then paint the forum Orange for heaven's sake and I'd love to see a bright orange wall!

I apologize to ALL those whom I've called a Trumpster!!  Certainly doesn't mean I give him a free pass on everything it only means that anyone with half a brain would see that IF we have any chance of saving this country from continued invasion and losing our sovereignty its standing behind Trump when he's trying to take this country in that same direction.
"I believe in the United States of America as a Government of the people, by the people, for the people; whose just powers are derived from the consent of the governed; a democracy in a republic; a sovereign nation of many sovereign states; a perfect union one and inseparable; established upon those principles of freedom, equality, justice and humanity for which American patriots sacrificed their lives and fortunes. I therefore believe it is my duty to my country to love it; to support its Constitution; to obey it laws; to respect its flag; and to defend it against all enemies." -William Page

Offline libertybele

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Re: Trump and the Character Question
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2019, 03:22:25 PM »
Most of those people overlooked his lack of character because they were choking on the idea of a President Hillary.   Come 2020, with four years of Trump's reality show under our belts,  I believe that the peoples' exhaustion will cause him to be crushed in a bid for re-election.   The question becomes what we must do to save conservatism in the face of a Democratic party which appears increasingly likely to oppose Trump with an out-and-out socialist with contempt for the Constitution.   

Republicans must step up and admit the obvious - Trump needs to be opposed for the GOP nomination.   

I am not exhausted of President Trump I am exhausted of the liberal lefts lies and deceit; Russian collusion ring a bell?  I'm tired of those in his own party who vote Republican in name only and fail to stand with this President.  It's overwhelming!  IF President Trump gives us a wall, curbs illegal immigration and preserves the 2A, good luck finding anyone who could beat him.
"I believe in the United States of America as a Government of the people, by the people, for the people; whose just powers are derived from the consent of the governed; a democracy in a republic; a sovereign nation of many sovereign states; a perfect union one and inseparable; established upon those principles of freedom, equality, justice and humanity for which American patriots sacrificed their lives and fortunes. I therefore believe it is my duty to my country to love it; to support its Constitution; to obey it laws; to respect its flag; and to defend it against all enemies." -William Page

Offline DCPatriot

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Re: Trump and the Character Question
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2019, 03:29:16 PM »
Most of those people overlooked his lack of character because they were choking on the idea of a President Hillary.   Come 2020, with four years of Trump's reality show under our belts,  I believe that the peoples' exhaustion will cause him to be crushed in a bid for re-election.   The question becomes what we must do to save conservatism in the face of a Democratic party which appears increasingly likely to oppose Trump with an out-and-out socialist with contempt for the Constitution.   

Republicans must step up and admit the obvious - Trump needs to be opposed for the GOP nomination.   

Hmmmm....  interesting take, @Jazzhead

But you fail to take into account, America's love affair with an underdog.

He could announce tomorrow night his intention to run for reelection in 2020 as an Independent.

And I'll let you choose the other two candidates. 

Doesn't matter.  Donald Trump wins running away.
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Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: Trump and the Character Question
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2019, 03:45:22 PM »
We had this stupid debate in 1996 and no one gave a shit. Why would it be any different 22 years later.

Offline DCPatriot

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Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: Trump and the Character Question
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2019, 03:47:34 PM »
Most of those people overlooked his lack of character because they were choking on the idea of a President Hillary.   Come 2020, with four years of Trump's reality show under our belts,  I believe that the peoples' exhaustion will cause him to be crushed in a bid for re-election.   The question becomes what we must do to save conservatism in the face of a Democratic party which appears increasingly likely to oppose Trump with an out-and-out socialist with contempt for the Constitution.   

Republicans must step up and admit the obvious - Trump needs to be opposed for the GOP nomination.   

Coming from the dude who is the only Kasich cheerleader here. Give me a break.

Offline Absalom

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Re: Trump and the Character Question
« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2019, 04:00:55 PM »
Whether or not Trump's Character flaws, either imagined or real,
will be fatal to his presidency is arguable.
Yet it should be apparent that his character weaknesses render
him unable to assess character in others.
The turmoil in his Cabinet is mute testament to that cold reality.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2019, 10:39:30 PM by Absalom »

Offline libertybele

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Re: Trump and the Character Question
« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2019, 04:27:05 PM »
Coming from the dude who is the only Kasich cheerleader here. Give me a break.

 888high58888
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Offline Night Hides Not

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Re: Trump and the Character Question
« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2019, 04:46:44 PM »
Trump was popular with the people because he spoke to their values and he has continued to support the values he spoke for as a candidate.

You can dismiss popularity all you want but Trump was popular with the people and he still is.


Trump remains popular with his base, roughly 1/3 of those who voted in 2016. He picked up another 12-15% who were anti-Hillary. Hillary won't be on the ballot in 2020, so who knows where that 12-15% will go?


If Trump caves on the wall, the really hard core Trump supporters will find excuses for Trump, but I think half of his base will be really upset.
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